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rtx 40x0 talk

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TerranBrackiatt

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Location
Austin, TX
you know... it seems to me that the news has turned into infomercials: they describe failures by people who ignore common sense: oooh look! someone can't scramble eggs because they pour the eggs out of the pan! ooh look! someone can't vaccuum thier living room because they tripped over the power cord that's under the couch and then got tangled in their window blinds! ooh look! someone's car didn't start after they disconnected the battery! Oooh look! someone's printer didn't work because they beat it up with a baseball bat! ooh look! someone had an electrical short in their 4090 because they didn't plug it correctly!

2 things i know about people in general:
1) people don't read instructions
2) people don't care if they're doing it wring, and they'll defend their wrong behavior til the ends of the earth... and then wonder why it doesn't work

oooh look! someone dropped a 10,000 pound rock into the bed of their pickup truck and wondered why the truck crumbled! ooooh look! someone stopped their car in front of a speeding train and wondered why their car got destroyed! oooh look! someone ignored ALL the SAFETY ALARMS for hours and wondered why Chernobyl exploded! oooh look! someone designed an inferior power connection and wondered why nobody can connect it correctly!

okay, my rant is over... i claim Bacon Deficiency Disorder... again
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
so download the firmware, gamble with possibly bricking the card

It's hard to brick the card to the point it won't be possible to fix it. If the flash fails for any reason, you boot with IGP or install a second discrete graphics and flash the other card with a specific command. Most flashing tools perform a firmware check after flashing.

For me, it's just weird that they replaced 3x8-pin and quite thick cables/connectors with a single 12-16 pin with thinner cables/connectors. It just looks wrong when you see the adapters that come with graphics cards. Either way, my RTX4080 works fine, and there is no black screen or anything like that. Hopefully, the review will be ready for the upcoming week.
 

krag

Classifieds Moderator
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
@ Terran, that's a good point. It does seem like sensationalism has grabbed most of our attention. I click on the melted cable articles too. :) So far, my Zotac 4090 has performed flawless. No hiccups, no melted cables all is good. And the PSU is the one in my siggy. 1k Corsair watt.

Although, I have this PSU waiting for install...
 

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krag

Classifieds Moderator
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
My psu in my sig is working perfectly. However, as I said previously...I have a taste for expensive pc hardware. Yes, you are right in that the 4090 will operate fully and perform properly under a 1kw PSU. I just like to push...stuff
 

Niku-Sama

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
you know... it seems to me that the news has turned into infomercials: they describe failures by people who ignore common sense: oooh look! someone can't scramble eggs because they pour the eggs out of the pan! ooh look! someone can't vaccuum thier living room because they tripped over the power cord that's under the couch and then got tangled in their window blinds! ooh look! someone's car didn't start after they disconnected the battery! Oooh look! someone's printer didn't work because they beat it up with a baseball bat! ooh look! someone had an electrical short in their 4090 because they didn't plug it correctly!

2 things i know about people in general:
1) people don't read instructions
2) people don't care if they're doing it wring, and they'll defend their wrong behavior til the ends of the earth... and then wonder why it doesn't work

oooh look! someone dropped a 10,000 pound rock into the bed of their pickup truck and wondered why the truck crumbled! ooooh look! someone stopped their car in front of a speeding train and wondered why their car got destroyed! oooh look! someone ignored ALL the SAFETY ALARMS for hours and wondered why Chernobyl exploded! oooh look! someone designed an inferior power connection and wondered why nobody can connect it correctly!

okay, my rant is over... i claim Bacon Deficiency Disorder... again

thats kinda the direction i'm leaning too.
i'm not saying nvidia is totally innocent of these issues but a little better design and/or QA could have fixed a lot of problems here.

they didnt design for the human element for this gen
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014

"RTX 4090 has Issues with Need for Speed Unbound that can Only be Fixed with a VBIOS Update"

"According to EA, the title exhibits a display flashing/blinking issue on machines powered by the RTX 4090, which requires a firmware update (i.e. video BIOS update). Luckily, this doesn't involve putting your RTX 4090 through a nerve-racking NVFlash manual BIOS update process (not that there's any risk with most RTX 4090 cards shipping with dual-BIOS). NVIDIA has released a fully-automated Firmware Update Tool that can be run from within Windows, which easily updates the video BIOS of the RTX 4090. We confirmed that it is in fact the video BIOS that is being updated (by comparing the VBIOS dumps before and after using the tool)."
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!

"RTX 4090 has Issues with Need for Speed Unbound that can Only be Fixed with a VBIOS Update"

"According to EA, the title exhibits a display flashing/blinking issue on machines powered by the RTX 4090, which requires a firmware update (i.e. video BIOS update). Luckily, this doesn't involve putting your RTX 4090 through a nerve-racking NVFlash manual BIOS update process (not that there's any risk with most RTX 4090 cards shipping with dual-BIOS). NVIDIA has released a fully-automated Firmware Update Tool that can be run from within Windows, which easily updates the video BIOS of the RTX 4090. We confirmed that it is in fact the video BIOS that is being updated (by comparing the VBIOS dumps before and after using the tool)."
Why is this a firmware and not driver update is my question? What's it doing at that level that borks a game down the pipeline??
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Oddly enough, the game's website only asks for a motherboard BIOS update?

"Flashing/Blinking Display - High End PCs

We've seen reports of Flashing/Blinking Display issues with folks on high-end PCs (Nvidia RTX 40-series). After testing, we've found a solution is to upgrade the motherboard BIOS. Please refer to your motherboard manufacturer’s support page to obtain the latest system BIOS."

Maybe something to do with rebar?
 

Brando

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Has anyone noticed that the aftermarket beefed up rtx 4080's seem to be barely faster or even slower than the FE? I looked up reviews for the suprim x and the rog strix and even with their high prices and beefed up designs they're somehow barely keeping up with the base model. It's not every review but even when they win it's by a hair. Seems like they're even more limited than cards of the past when you could at least get maybe 10% extra fps.

1670181255379.png
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
It's a matter of boost clock (maybe GPU quality) and who is actually testing the card. Results are sometimes weird even on the most popular websites.
My Colorful RTX4080 is boosting ~70MHz higher than most top OC series from ASUS or MSI that I saw in some reviews, even though base clocks are about the same. On the other hand 10% difference in results suggest that something isn't right, different drivers or something else. Results between stock and OC are typically 0-5FPS when most games/tests run at 100+FPS 1440p/4k.
In case of dual-BIOS versions, reviewers could test the card at default BIOS = stock clocks the same as FE. Cards without OC mode typically have the same stock clocks as FE, so GPU quality, temps and boost clock matter.
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Aren't the FE supposed to be some of the best silicon that Nvidia keeps exactly for e-peen contests? Could've sworn I read something about this a few years ago?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
On the other hand 10% difference in results suggest that something isn't right, different drivers or something else.
This. The difference in clocks doesn't translate to that much difference in performance. We've seen, for generations now, FE clocks versus the highest clocked card out was only a couple/few % difference. 10%.......something isn't right.

or maybe nvidia is keeping the better chips for them selves and shipping the lesser ones to 3rd parties.

wouldnt put it past em
Aren't the FE supposed to be some of the best silicon that Nvidia keeps exactly for e-peen contests? Could've sworn I read something about this a few years ago?
I don't think so. My logic........why would they keep the 'best' silicon for the lowest-clocked cards? Overclocking is really limited (not a lot of power limit headroom and no/limited voltage control)... not sure I buy that argument.
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
I don't think so. My logic........why would they keep the 'best' silicon for the lowest-clocked cards? Overclocking is really limited (not a lot of power limit headroom and no/limited voltage control)... not sure I buy that argument.
Golden samples achiev same/higher clocks with lower voltages right? Lower voltages = lower temperatures, which is a very good thing considering the stock cooler (compared to the other 3 fan brands). It's kind of a stretch maybe, but makes sense to me, why would I NOT keep the best silicon batches if it makes my product look better in the eyes of the public?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
The FE cooler works fine. Not as good as 3/4 slot coolers, but, DUH on that... any consumer (ok, most, there's a lot of mouth breathers out there, LOL) can figure that out. I understand where you're coming from tho! :)

EDIT: Ya know, I think they may, but I never UNDERSTOOD why they did it, though. A Tom's article said it 'gives them an advantage over reference cards' w/e the hell that actually means. I forgot that the FE's are slightly higher than reference clocks.

Still, this is in no way the cause of a 10% difference, better silicon. I don't understand the epeen thing. Considering they are barely clocked above reference when 3rd part cards with 'worse' silicon (they also bin, though...) are clocked higher.
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Not saying the cooler is bad at all, it was definitely a gigantic leap from the older 1fan blower gens, and even then it still manages to score so well in comparison, the FE seem to always be in the upper % of all air coolers in charts (hence epeen). It's a definite well done Nvidia, but I wonder just how much of that is BIOS, how much is cooling and yes, how much is down to the silicone :shrug: you know me, I like my tinfoil hat theories :clap:
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
For air cooling GPUs that were running at lower voltages/temps used to be better, but not always liked higher voltages. For competitive benchmarking on LN2, chips that were running at higher voltages used to scale better and like higher voltages for benching. So you could say that "worse" chips were actually better for world records. In the last years I don't think it matters at all as with some exceptions, overclocking isn't really significant and most cards have locked voltages.
FE cards used to be very average and the problem was not with GPUs but a standard power design and low power limits. OC series have much higher power limits and usually better cooling, so they boost higher without touching voltages.