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Sandybridge Chipset Design Flaw and Recall- MUST READ

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dominick32

Senior Solid State Aficionado
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
New York
This is just a heads up to my SB guys/gals:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/31/intel-finds-sandy-bridge-chipset-design-flaw-shipments-stopped/
A problem requiring a "silicon fix" is bad news in the chipset business, and sadly that's what Intel is announcing.

LIVE UPDATES FROM MEMBERS IN THIS THREAD AS THEY HAPPEN:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4142/intel-discovers-bug-in-6series-chipset-begins-recall
It only affects the 3Gbps ports. This is a huge bummer. Although I'm not affected since I'm only using the 6Gbps ports, so I don't mind waiting until it all eventually gets sorted out and presumably they ship everyone new motherboards.


Good advice, just make sure its not on an SSD, as the sandforce based models when 'full' get into a settled state of performance.


What to do if you've already received a flawed Sandy Bridge desktop Read more:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20030052-1.html


From what I've read so far its only affecting the P67's not the H's. See below:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/31/intel-finds-sandy-bridge-chipset-design-flaw-shipments-stopped/







Yeah it was kinda hard to decipher..

Just found this from a guy @ the EVGA forums..


Just got an e-mail from newegg I'd like to share:



Thank you for giving us the opportunity to serve you. Newegg has recently become aware of a design issue that is affecting recent models of Intel Sandy Bridge platform motherboards. We are working with Intel to identify the exact nature of this problem.

As always, Newegg remains 100% committed to our customers' total satisfaction. In keeping with our commitment to our customers, we are extending the return period for your motherboard by 90 days or until replacements become available from the manufacturer, whichever is greater. Intel expects to have a new revision of the P67 & H67 chipsets out around April, at which point first-run motherboards with this issue will need to be physically replaced in affected systems.

From a technical standpoint, the design issue can be bypassed fairly simply by not using the Serial ATA (SATA) ports that are affected. Your motherboard’s manual should identify your SATA ports by number, and at a minimum you should see ports 0-5 (6 ports in total) listed. Ports 0 and 1 are Sata Rev. III (6Gbps), and do not appear to be affected by this problem. Ports 2-5 are SATA Rev. II (3Gbps) and should not be used. For a thorough explanation of this hardware work-around, please refer to our video on YouTube:

If you choose to use the hardware work-around option, there is no need to contact us at this time. We have your information on record and will email you as soon as the replacements become available. If you would like to discuss this with our tech community or read up on the latest updates, please visit our EggXpert forum:
http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/682006.aspx

If none of the above options are suitable to your needs and you wish to return the board at this time for a full refund, please email us at intelsandybridge@newegg.com and include your sales order number so we can help you out with your return.

If you have any concerns, please contact Newegg Customer Service for further information and assistance.

Thank you for your support!

Sincerely,

"The Source of Intel's Cougar Point SATA Bug"

AnandTech's article about the nitty-gritty hardware details surrounding the Sandy Bridge chipset recall...

The problem in the chipset was traced back to a transistor in the 3Gbps PLL clocking tree. The aforementioned transistor has a very thin gate oxide, which allows you to turn it on with a very low voltage. Unfortunately in this case Intel biased the transistor with too high of a voltage, resulting in higher than expected leakage current. Depending on the physical characteristics of the transistor the leakage current here can increase over time which can ultimately result in this failure on the 3Gbps ports. The fact that the 3Gbps and 6Gbps circuits have their own independent clocking trees is what ensures that this problem is limited to only ports 2 - 5 off the controller.

You can coax the problem out earlier by testing the PCH at increased voltage and temperature levels. By increasing one or both of these values you can simulate load over time and that’s how the problem was initially discovered. Intel believes that any current issues users have with SATA performance/compatibility/reliability are likely unrelated to the hardware bug.

It sounds like Toshiba connected their hard drives to the Sata2 ports instead of the Sata3 ports in their notebooks. Whoops... seems a bit silly to me, if the Sata3 ports were already there why not use them incase users wanted to go with an SSD later?

http://www.techpowerup.com/139734/Toshiba-Announces-Recall-of-Sandy-Bridge-Powered-Notebooks.html



Also, Asus has joined Gigabyte in the Replacement or Refund camp: http://event.asus.com/2011/SandyBridge/notice/

I wonder how the refunds will work? I'd gladly keep my board till April then grad a refund and purchase a Z67 board.

 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Yeah, there is another thread on this gere I just saw... very interesting! It doesnt mention what the flaws are either, at least in that other article...glad this one has that info!!! Thanks!

Twas in the folding section though and not aptly named.
 

bing

Low Profile Senior
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Location
Indonesia
So does this mean those affected sold mobos must be rma and need chip replacement ?

Still can't find any info bout soft fixes.

This will hit real hard on SB sales figures.
 

PolRoger

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
This will surely slowdown (stop?) SB sales for awhile.

edit: you beat me to it "bing" I would think that all of the affected chipset motherboards will have to be replaced.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Stop? No. We havent seen any reports of this degredation yet either or under what circumstances it happens in (time?). I wonder how long it will take though...
 

notarat

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
I recommend documenting your baseline performance by benching your Disk performance, screenshotting it, and posting the results using an online picture hosting service, then making appropriate posts in your mfgr's forums so that you can show you had performance of X when you first got your system.

Then, if you notice a performance degradation, repeat the process above to show your system is are affected, in case your mfgr claims your system is not affected. (I've seen company's deny the problem before)
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Good advice, just make sure its not on an SSD, as the sandforce based models when 'full' get into a settled state of performance.
 

atm743

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
awesome. i just bought my 2600K and P8P67 Pro :(. could it be an issue with just H67 chipset's or both P67 and H67?
 

DaveHCYJ

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Location
San Diego
Then, if you notice a performance degradation, repeat the process above to show your system is are affected, in case your mfgr claims your system is not affected. (I've seen company's deny the problem before)

That isn't likely to happen. It sounds like Intel is doing a full recall and replacement (ie doing the right thing).

awesome. i just bought my 2600K and P8P67 Pro :(. could it be an issue with just H67 chipset's or both P67 and H67?

Yes both are affected, but only the 3Gbps ports and only over time.
 

atm743

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
SATA 6 ports are backwards compatible right? Hope so cause i dont want to screw up my SSD? from what anand said, there will be bit lost and many retries being made. i hope this wont screw up TRIM in SSD's and cause many block write and erases.
 

DaveHCYJ

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Location
San Diego
SATA 6 ports are backwards compatible right? Hope so cause i dont want to screw up my SSD? from what anand said, there will be bit lost and many retries being made. i hope this wont screw up TRIM in SSD's and cause many block write and erases.

Yes Sata 6 is backwards compatible, so unless you have more than 2 (or depending on your mobo more than 4 or 6) drives then you can just use the Sata 6 ports and be fine. Even with the Sata 3 ports it sounds like its a long slow degredation that is only happening to some boards (which is why it took them so long to find it).

It sounds to me like its just transfer bit errors, not actually causing read/write problems on the drive. If there is a bit error while reading from the drive, the the data will just get sent again (and will be in cache, so it won't cause another actual read operation). If there is a bit error while writing, then the drive won't write it and will just wait for the data to be resent. Once sent correctly the drive will write it.
Thats how I understand it at least.
 

atm743

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Yes Sata 6 is backwards compatible, so unless you have more than 2 (or depending on your mobo more than 4 or 6) drives then you can just use the Sata 6 ports and be fine. Even with the Sata 3 ports it sounds like its a long slow degredation that is only happening to some boards (which is why it took them so long to find it).

It sounds to me like its just transfer bit errors, not actually causing read/write problems on the drive. If there is a bit error while reading from the drive, the the data will just get sent again (and will be in cache, so it won't cause another actual read operation). If there is a bit error while writing, then the drive won't write it and will just wait for the data to be resent. Once sent correctly the drive will write it.
Thats how I understand it at least.

awesome. i have 4 sata 6 ports on my board. (only 2 are intel, other 2 are Marvell controller). not sure if its even worth using that controller cause i have 3 internal drives. know im going to use the P67 sata 6 for my one SSD and just use the Marvell controller for my 2 HDD drives.

as for the bit error. i thought i could get a bit Write error causing multiple re-writes until there is no error. not fully sure if im thinking right on how it works in my head.

good, something for me to do tonight after my crap 3 hour shift (yeah my job sucks) I was having issues with my motherboard finding my SSD and booting when having sata configured to AHCI. i already did the windows reg edit?? o well figure it out tonight hopefully :D thanks for the heads up and the help :)
 

Nut-Flush

Disabled
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Well according to this graphic only laptop owners are affected. The vPro is a business class CPU...
 

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phatty2x4

Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Location
Oregon
Before I saw this article, I was telling myself I should wait until newer revision hardware comes out, because I had bought x38 when it first came out and had to send it back 3 times before I got one that worked. Before that, the only mobo I had bought when it first came out was on a athlon xp setup and I had the exact same luck. With all the problems people are having with the P67 mobo's and now this article, I'm SOOO glad I didn't pull the trigger on SB yet.
 

hokiealumnus

Water Cooled Moderator
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Combined the two threads, put it in the MB section since this is a chipset instead of a CPU issue. Hate to see this happen to what seemed to be a strong chipset before this.
 

Tomsawyer

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Should have known there was already a thread on this so delete my other one Mods.

Got my new computer Haf-X case all set for water cooling. Waiting to this Weds to get the new retention bracket for the motherboard and now this.

I like so many others am on the fence in getting an RMA for the Asus P8 P67 board or just use the 6gb ports.

I planned on transferring over 2 1tb drives as well as my dvd burner. But I also bought a new SSD drive to be my boot drive. So just using the 2 ports is out. I need at least 3 (ssd for boot, 1tb for storage, and the last for the dvd). At least the external drive is USB.

Sigh :bang head