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[email protected] cheating?

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ThePerfectCore

Red Raccoon Dojo
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Location
Texas
That got your attention, didn't it!? :eek:

Now that I've got it, I'd like to direct it here:

http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/bb/bb3/bboard.cgi?action=viewthread&num=9804

Copy/paste:

THIS IS A REPOST OF A PREVIOUS POST UNDER "Oct 31, 2002 at 23:32 Anti Cheating Petition" ON THIS FORUM - SO YOU'RE NOT SEEING DOUBLE ;-). PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD, WE NEED TO GET ATTENTION ON THIS, FAST !!!
---------------------------------------------------------

Greetings all,

Text of the open letter I've just posted to SlashDot and various other forums in regards to this matter is pasted in below.

I've also posted it to the petition at <http://www.teamprimerib.com/seti> and have taken the liberty (with a calmer and more respectful cover letter) of forwarding it to the personal email addys of to Drs. Anderson, Werthimer and Korpela over at Berkeley (if anyone else writes them, be nice and don't waste their time -- they're hard working scientists, after all -- but neither should you be shy if you have something relevant to tell them. Never forget WE are the foundations of their project <grin> )

Don't give up the fight to set this right, soon. (Jeez! Can you imagine if CNN gets it's claws into it? <shudder> )

Keep processing those WU's! (As for the cheaters, here's hoping there's a place reserved for them on the appropriate level of Dante's Inferno for False Witnesses...)

Peace on you all.

Nota Bene: For those of you whom "Element 118" doesn't ring a bell, it's a reference to the scandal (at Berkeley too -- such a small world, n'est pas? ;-)
of the disgraced scientist who was found recently to have falsified his results in the matter of the creation of element 118 of the periodic table, and brought disgrace onto his entire team, to the delighted and ravenous baying of the hounds of the Media.).
________________________________________________

OPEN LETTER TO [email protected]

Subject: Result return cheating allegations.

Friday Nov 1, 2002

Scientists and administrators of the [email protected] project, I have two words for you: Element 118.

Why are you ignoring these extremely serious allegations? You have a duty as scientists to insure your work is legitimate and above board. Not only is your silence an insult to each and every one of the honest subscribers who make your project possible, but there is a distinct possibility that the cheating may be CORRUPTING YOUR DATA.

Perhaps you fear "rocking the boat" as you approach the inception of [email protected] II. Perhaps you dismiss the entire matter as irreverent, a "tempest in a teacup". Believe me, it is not! Address this matter NOW, before all your - and our - efforts are destroyed by sensational headlines in the mainstream media. Wake up! Ostriches end up drowning in sand.

There is a thread currently running over at Slashdot.org on this very subject. If you know anything at all about geeks (and make no mistake, it because of geeks that your project was viable in the first place and continues to this day) then cold dread should be running down your spines. Have you any idea at all how many of the geeks who run the major processing clusters and server farms which return the majority of your results read Slashdot? Or maybe you now know - ever hear of the "Slashdot Effect" <ironic grin>

Thread is here: <http://slashdot.org/articles/02/10/31/034219.shtml?tid=99>

Ars Technica is also running a furious thread over at: <http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=122097561&m=1380946735>

There are many other places people are expressing their outrage at what is going on. Google it -- I believe the blood will drain from your collective faces...

Or you could just check your own forums -- do you not even bother to moderate or look them over from time to time?

I have been a supporter since the very first month [email protected] went online. I am member of no team and care not a whit about competition. Period. I have supported you and given you my CPU time because I believe in the project and the promise of SETI as a whole. I never ended up becoming the scientist I so wanted to be as a boy -- life can be unfair that way :-( -- so this is a way that I can contribute, albeit in a small way, to the advancement of science and growth of our collective knowledge about the Universe. So I am sickened and disgusted, not only at the irresponsible small-minded idiots who are cheating, but at your refusal to acknowledge this very serious problem.

We await -- no, WE DEMAND -- your response forthwith, not to mention your assurance to us all, your supporters and the greater scientific community, that you are addressing and investigating this matter, thoroughly and honestly (as opposed to PR noises).

Marc-Yves Soula
Montreal, Canada

And also, to this Google search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&[email protected]

Which turned up these articles:



I can't even think straight I'm so ****ed off right now.

How messed up is this!? LET'S JUST GO AND CHEAT OUR WAY TO THE TOP! OMG! WON'T THAT BE AWESOME! OMG! LET'S JUST THROW AWAY ALL THE EFFORTS EVERYONE ELSE HAS PUT INTO THE PROJECT SO WE CAN SAY OHWOW LOOK HOW MANY WUS I HAVE! OMG AREN'T I 1337!?

*Kaboom* :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

KenCo

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Location
NW US
This cheating has been going on for quite some time. I expect that the end of phase one has more to do with cheating and hacked clients than anything else.

Phase Two is probably their way of cleaning up the current methods of cheating while at the same time having their funds do double duty by taking another step forward with the project. Probably the best approach. There's no sense in wasting resources getting bogged down in trying to track things the current system was never designed to track.

My guess is that with phase two they will build a lot more monitoring and logging capability into their systems so that when the cheaters do find a way to cheat (as they always do), it will be much easier to track them and deal with them.

Any project as massive as [email protected] is an ongoing learning process for it's designers and it's users. I expect that with Phase Two we'll get a lot more satisfaction when the inevitable cheaters turn up.
 

Tecumseh

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2002
Location
Ohio
The simple truth is I have a computer farm I have recently shut
down since the distributed.net RC5 contest ended, and I'm not
impressed with the folding stuff or, now, the SETI stuff.

This cheating stuff has to be cleared up. With SETI we could all
win if we find a signal. For the folding stuff I get the idea that
some drug company is going to profit on all the free CPU hours
donated by thousands. To Hell with that.
 

none1

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2002
Location
Chicago, IL
Not to support cheating, and I haven't read all the articles. BUT ......

1) If you make up units / send duplicate units ya, i think that's bad.

2) My understanding of at least ONE way to cheat was simply to hack / write a better faster client. I'm not so sure why this way would be so bad. I mean, if my computer COULD crunch a WU in 15 minutes, I could find ET that much faster.

Can anyone who has read all the articles give just a BRIEF overview of the common cheats "that are running rampant"?

Thanks



P.S. I don't think any ostrich has ever "drowned in sand". :)
 

JigPu

Inactive Pokémon Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Vancouver, WA
I'm not up on the common cheating methods, but the one I hear most about is one person crunching 99% of a WU, and then distributing it to a lot of others. Everyone crunches the last 1% and sends in the results. They do this for like 14 days or something, and then re-submit the results starting from day 1 because the WU tracking doesn't last more than that amount of time and they cheat by sending in the same WU over and over.

The hacked clients are a problem because you can't be sure that they are correctly translated from SETI's original code. If they end up crunching faster, but returning bogus data, then SETI's up a creek. Also, some SETI hacks don't actually process the data at all. They go through and insert bogus results and then submit it and SETI thinks it's fine because they don't know any better.

JigPu
 

TC

Senior Seti Addict
Joined
Jan 15, 2001
Location
Denver, CO
none1 said:
Not to support cheating, and I haven't read all the articles. BUT ......

1) If you make up units / send duplicate units ya, i think that's bad.

2) My understanding of at least ONE way to cheat was simply to hack / write a better faster client. I'm not so sure why this way would be so bad. I mean, if my computer COULD crunch a WU in 15 minutes, I could find ET that much faster.

Can anyone who has read all the articles give just a BRIEF overview of the common cheats "that are running rampant"?

Thanks



P.S. I don't think any ostrich has ever "drowned in sand". :)
The hacked clients don't actually process the data as thoroughly as the official client - that's part of the problem with them. They don't just do the same job faster, they do a short cut version.
 

Digital Pimp

Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2001
Location
Richmond B.C. Canada
the methon jigpu mentioned seems simple enough, but there is a far simpler method. you crunch a bunch of WU's normally, save the folders before you transmit. then transmit, a week or so later transmit the 2nd batch of wu's. this is a simple way to multiply your (cheating) output.

Digital
 

Lorixnt2

Registered
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Location
Italy
This is the David Anderson's official answer about the cheating problem afaik.


Some [email protected] users have found ways to "cheat" -
to get credit for work they didn't do.
We know that individual and team statistics are very
important to many of our users,
and we'd like to keep accurate statistics.
However, our manpower is limited, and our top priorities are
1) looking for ET by finishing our back-end data analysis and
2) developing BOINC, the software basis for future [email protected] projects,
which is designed to be highly cheat-resistant.

But because of the recent increase in cheating,
we're going to start investigating suspicious accounts.
If there is solid evidence we'll remove credit from the account and its
team.
If you suspect someone of cheating, you're welcome to email me.
I can't guarantee that we'll investigate that user,
or that you'll get a response; we'll do what we can.

The effects of this crackdown will soon be visible,
and it will hopefully minimize the impact of the cheating problem.
Please bear with us until BOINC is released.
(BOINC is open-source, so programmers can help us by
evaluating its cheat-prevention system;
the code is at http://sf.net/projects/boinc).

David P. Anderson
Director, [email protected]
 

hallen

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Location
Prattsville, NY

Lorixnt2

Registered
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Location
Italy
hallen said:


[email protected] Summary

Total WU in past 7 days Avg WU
per day
27Oct 28Oct 29Oct 30Oct 31Oct 01Nov 02Nov
17808 21665 19157 23240 24218 11691 -604439

http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/bb/bb3/bboard.cgi?action=viewthread&num=9782

Lorixnt2- Would you have a link for the Anderson answer? I'd like to pass it on to a reporter.

Grazie

Harvey

got it at Ars Harvey where you can also find this intersting pic
hihihihihihihihihihihihi

:cool:


01112002.JPG



http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50009562&f=122097561&m=5240997735&p=2


:D :beer: those dumbasses lol...
 

hallen

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Location
Prattsville, NY

Cuper

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Location
NY
This is actually pretty funny!!! Here the cheaters spent all of this time to amass such a large sum just to get zero'd "sp??" out!!! :D

Man if I was a cheater and spent all that time I would be ****ed!!! Good to see some justice going around!
 

papounet

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Location
Brussels
Do not laugh too much at other teams. We may have some dubious users too.
and do not forget how easy it would be for someone with no ethics to join a team and cheat in order to ruin the team's reputation (shudder).

I hope to see ASAP the long-awaited clean-up
 

Greg M

Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
To not see Berkeley focus more energy on the integrity of the data has been disconcerting for quite some time. If you can't rely on the data, what's the point of going through the exercise?
 

aftermath

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
The Big Brother Nation
i would feal so disgusted if our team cheated. i realy think it would just make all the time and electricity that ive used just pointless. Im crunching once more and i feal like why do i bother.
I still want to find et of corse!!
 

Lorixnt2

Registered
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Location
Italy
aftermath said:
i would feal so disgusted if our team cheated. i realy think it would just make all the time and electricity that ive used just pointless. Im crunching once more and i feal like why do i bother.
I still want to find et of corse!!

That's the question aftermath. There are priorities. All the seti stuff is not *really* about lists, results or teams. It's about this ET thingy that is not even a scientific research sensu stricto.
It is much more primordial as long as science itself is only
a very successfull method within the human knowledge.
Imho anyone cheating in this game has a great personal responsibility not involving eventual teams or stuff.