Should I Get a PSU, and What Kind, for My System?

[achaye]

I will be assembling a new computer, the first one that I will attempt to overclock with, with the following:

-Athlon 64 3500+, 2.2GHz 1600MHz Winchester Core, Socket 939 Processor
-MSI "K8N Neo2 Platinum" NVIDIA nForce3 ULTRA Chipset Motherboard
-Corsair Value Select 184 Pin 512MBx2 DDR PC-3200 (model VS1GBKIT400, dual channel memory)
-Aspire X-Dreamer II(Black) ATX Mid-Tower Case with 350W Power Supply
-Thermalright XP-90 Heatsink
-Panaflo H1B 92x92x25mm fan for CPU (model FBA09A12H), 56.8cfm
-SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, 8X AGP, "ATLANTIS RADEON 9600XT"
-Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS PCI Sound Card
-Seagate 120GB 7200RPM IDE 8MB Cache "Barracuda" Hard Drive
-Western Digital 60GB 7200RPM IDE 8MB Cache Hard Drive
-Plextor 12X DVD+R 8X DVD-R CDRW
-Sony DVD Drive
-NEC Superscript 860 Laser Printer
-Canon Canoscan LIDE 20 USB Scanner
-2 Logitech Wingman USB controllers
-Generic USB Webcam

You might not notice it but I think I have a problem. The X-Dreamer II comes with a Turbolink 350W PSU, and from what I hear, is pretty solid.... if you aren't running a high-end system. At +12V it pushes only 12A.... with that said, I assume it will be nowhere near powerful enough to run an overclocked Winchester? (I will probably be overclocking to 250x10 from stock 200x11, and run the RAM async with a slight overclock as well)

So does anyone have any experience with an X-Dreamer II power supply with a heavy system? About how much can it run? And if it can't run something like that above, what caliber of a PSU do I need to get?

I'm thinking about the Antec "True 430" at 430W pushing 20A at 12V. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...-103-908&depa=0

Does that fit in the X-Dreamer II Tower? I mean, of course it fits because it's ATX, but from some things I've been reading, some longer power supplies will require taking out the top case fan because it gets in the way of the PSU.

One final thing, will having Active PFC actually do anything? It seems pretty critical considering that, from the sticky, Europe requires PSUs to have either Active or Passive PFC. http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/pfc.html

Sorry for such a long rant, any help would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[Feydd]

I have that antec PSU. It's been in my mid-tower case for about half a year now. So far no problems. I didn't have to rearrange any thing to get it to fit. It should be enough to power your system. Sorry, can't answer the PFC question.

 

[Sentential]

Hi! and WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!!!
...and the sickness

I would avoid Antec's 430W true. I had to upgrade to a 520W Powerstream by OCZ for my A64 rig, which look eeirly similar to yours.

I would reccomend any of their products, whether it be the 420W 470W or the 520W. They all have adjustable voltage rails so that if one is low you can manually tune it.

As for the 9600XT...thats awefully slow bro. Have you considered an x700PRO or a 6600GT?

 

[Sentential]

Look familiar?

<my reccomendations>
420W Powerstream

Fortron 530W

http://www.gameve.com/gve/Store/ProductDetails.aspx?sku=VC-CHAIN-050

http://www.gameve.com/gve/Store/ProductDetails.aspx?sku=VC-ALBA-036

 

[deception``]

1. If you're overclocking you should look into some better ram. I'd say go for some TCCD here. Start by looking for: Patriot PDP PC 3200 with XBL Technology. It should run much better and is fairly inexpensive.

2. Yes, you need a better power supply. I'd say get at least a Fortron 530W, but an OCZ Powerstream 470W or 520W is highly recommended.

3. A Geforce 6600GT will bring A LOT more performance than that 9600 XT.

4. Don't buy IDE hard drives, as that motherboard will run SATA in RAID. Instead, pick up a pair of Seagate 120gb SATA Barracuda's.

5. That Plextor DVD drive is unecessary. I'd go for the NEC instead.

deception``

 

[achaye]

Wow, thanks for the input, you guys are awesome!

Yeah, the 9600XT and Corsair VS line RAM isn't all that flashy or anything; I was basically buying on a budget of $900, and the CPU, heatsink, CPU fan, motherboard, RAM, tower, video card, and soundcard alone costed me roughly $860 or so, after shipping, taxes, and whatnot. So I prioritized the CPU and motherboard, and the leftover money goes to the RAM, tower, video card, and sound card. All the other stuff are either from a friend or from the old computer.

Unfortunately, the 6600s and x700s were far too expensive for my meager monetary sums to work with, so I figure a 9600XT is a good balance between price and some performance. I mean, I'm upgrading from a 5-year-old no-AGP-slot on-board 8MB video computer, so even the 9600XT will be like WOW to me =]


The OCZ 420W one looks awfully tempting... but it's kind of pricey and doesn't have PFC, in which case most of the time efficiency hangs around 60-70%, whereas an active PFC PSU is around the high 80s and low 90s. I'll do more research into it to see if it's worth the price.

 

[deception``]

Instead of spending 290+ on the 3500+, pick up an OEM 90nm 3200+ and use the cost savings toward the 6600GT. And the 6600GT will outperform the x700, too.

And feel free to research the Powerstream all you want. I am sure that, after careful deliberation, you will find that it remains to be highly recommended and indeed a smart buy.

deception``

 

[achaye]

Oh I meant I was going to research more about Active PFC and its actual influences on a practical level; I don't have a doubt that the OCZ Powerstream is a monster of a PSU worthy of its pricetag.

The Neo2 Platinum supports, unfortunately, the 3500+ as the "lowest" CPU, so the 3200+ won't be able to run on it. The Neo2's predecessor, the Neo Platinum (which has the Ultra2 instead of Ultra3 nforce chipset), runs the 3200+ but I've heard it had all sorts of problems that was finally fixed in the Neo2.

On a side note, are Seasonic PSUs any good?

 

[deception``]

Oh I meant I was going to research more about Active PFC and its actual influences on a practical level; I don't have a doubt that the OCZ Powerstream is a monster of a PSU worthy of its pricetag.

The Neo2 Platinum supports, unfortunately, the 3500+ as the "lowest" CPU, so the 3200+ won't be able to run on it. The Neo2's predecessor, the Neo Platinum (which has the Ultra2 instead of Ultra3 nforce chipset), runs the 3200+ but I've heard it had all sorts of problems that was finally fixed in the Neo2.

On a side note, are Seasonic PSUs any good?

Trust me when I say that any s939 chip will run on the Neo2, including the 3000+ and 3200+. Hell, Sentential (who has helped you in this very thread) is running a 3200+ using that same motherboard. Look at his signature for proof.

And no, I wouldn't go for a Seasonic PSU.

deception``

 

[Sentential]

Oh I meant I was going to research more about Active PFC and its actual influences on a practical level; I don't have a doubt that the OCZ Powerstream is a monster of a PSU worthy of its pricetag.

The Neo2 Platinum supports, unfortunately, the 3500+ as the "lowest" CPU, so the 3200+ won't be able to run on it. The Neo2's predecessor, the Neo Platinum (which has the Ultra2 instead of Ultra3 nforce chipset), runs the 3200+ but I've heard it had all sorts of problems that was finally fixed in the Neo2.

On a side note, are Seasonic PSUs any good?

Look at the 4th line of my sig:

Antec Super Lanboy | OCZ 520W Powerstream | Athlon64™ 3200+ (ADA3200DIK4BI CBBFD 0433 SMPW 1063546H40301W) (Thermalright

Im sorry but that is simply not true. As you can tell by my signature, I am using a 3200+ without issue. Hell my good friend Osirus is using a 3000+. You are mistaken in that assumption. The K8N supports as low as the 3000+ which is the lowest avaliable.

The K8N Neo2 which is S939 is Nforce3 Ultra based. You are thinking of the Neo1 which is S754 based and uses the Nforce3 -250PRO chipset. Your facts are correct...just jumbeled up, and yes the Neo1 sux ***, and it stull does.

Seasonic is *ok*. I'd get a 3200+ or a 3000+ and focus on getting a better videocard.

Finally there is no need for a soundcard since it has a nice onboard audio solution, hence why *I* am not using one.


_______________

EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trust me when I say that any s939 chip will run on the Neo2, including the 3000+ and 3200+. Hell, Sentential (who has helped you in this very thread) is running a 3200+ using that same motherboard. Look at his signature for proof.

And no, I wouldn't go for a Seasonic PSU.

deception``

....grrrr beaten to the punch...AGAIN!>?!?!?

 

[capmuffin]

get the 3000+ off www.zipzoomfly.com for under $150 get the PDP ram,fortron 530. 6600gt AGP

 

[Sentential]

get the 3000+ off www.zipzoomfly.com for under $150 get the PDP ram,fortron 530. 6600gt AGP

My sentiments exactally.

 

[achaye]

Ah, heh my ineptitude surfaces yet again

Alrity, I've finally found what PFC really does:

1. Power Factor is a function of how much the voltage and the current drawn are out of phase with each other in an AC circuit. The phase shift is caused by inductive reactance. In large scale industrical operations that use many electric motors, the inductive coils cause a significant phase shift, which can make the "apparent" power used to be far less than the actual. And a meter that is not designed to accomodate for "Power Factor Correction" will indeed give the comsumer some free power.
2. As far as I know, there is no "stress" on the utility company equipment, other than giving away free electricty.
3. Yes, it probably is required by law in some places. The utility companies usually look at industrial operations, determine the power factor and adjust billing accordingly, but now I think most of the solid state meters can adjust for it automatically.
4. The efficiency you mention is not efficiency, it is the percentage of percieved power used vs. actual power used at the utility meter.

In other words, having it in a computer power supply doesn't really mean jack to the computer.

With that, I think I'm going to have to go with the $77 Fortron 530W... well maybe a less powerful one, 530W is a LOT of power.

 

[Sentential]

... well maybe a less powerful one, 530W is a LOT of power.

WHy not???!?!? Its a great PSU and will probly save you $$$ in the long run when you upgrade. I say get it.

Also with a 3200+ or a 3000+ will that provide enough funds for a 6600GT?

 

[ComPuterFreak90]

430 enermax

enermax is better. 430 enermax or aspire.

 

[achaye]

I bought my 3500+ Winchester for $284 (after tax and shipping), whereas Newegg sells a 3200+ for $194 before tax and shipping. Let's just say I save $100, and the 6600GT AGP8x version costs $240 on Newegg. My 9600XT costs $135, so slapping on the extra $100 will pretty much get me there.

Ah what a shame I already paid for the 3500+ Winchester. Is it that much better than the 3200+ Winchester? All I've read is that when overclocking to the same core speed, the 3200+ runs a lot hotter (naturally, since it operates at a lower native core speed).

And yea, after more consideration, I think I'll just stick with the Fortron 530W, seeing how the next highest Fortron wattage is at 350W, according to Newegg anyway.

 

[Sentential]

o..m...g...so let me get this straight....

You bought the 3500+ and a 9600XT instead of a 3200+ and a 6600GT!?!?!? Are you out of your f-ing mind!?!?........Please for the love of god tell me you didnt.

Im reading your response and all I can do is cringe.....who is telling you these things?? I know that I and others arent.

I seriously hope you realize that the 6600GT is almost 3X as fast as a 9600XT.

Please man....if you are gonna take our advice, dont do these stupid mistakes. You just seriously cut your PC's peformance off at the balls. I seriously hope you can return that 3500+ for a 3200+.

If you want our advice...please...please follow it. Cancel the 3500+ and before you do ANYTHING else, please consult us or Im gonna unsubscribe and stop posting in this thread.

 

[Overclocker550]

ok I read it all and lets not be so hard on him, he did not do enough research before buying his hardware. return the 3500+ and 9600xt and get at least a 9700pro. buy a 3000+ or 3200+ winchester and no they do not run hotter unless you overclock them but all 2GHz winchesters emit the same heat. You dont even need a 6600gt, a 9800pro is $150 used and not much slower but you wont be too happy with the 9600xt and you overpaid for your 3200+ I paid $160 for my 3000+ retail and it does about 2.6GHz(havent finalized the oc) this could save you tons. If you cant return the cpu, sell it for a small loss, you will still save by getting a 3000+. also sell the 9600xt and buy at least a 9700pro. If you dont do any of this you will have paid more than I did yet you wont be able to game at 1600x1200 like I can. Its your call. we have helped you, now you must decide if you want a good deal or not.

 

[achaye]

Sorry if you've been offended Sentential, but I guess I should have said in the first post that I've already bought the CPU, motherboard, video card, sound card, etc, before I even posted about the power supply issue. In fact it already came in. Shortly after I found out that a 12A at 12V PSU will not cut it, and hence, this thread exists.

Well, now that I've read everything, I regret not buying a 3200 (I paid pretty much $80 extra for a 1 unit higher multiplier from 10x to 11x essentially) instead, but it's not too much of a loss.

Thing is, I don't plan on gaming at such high resolutions in the first place; my 3-year-old LCD supports only up to 1024x768, and when I have enough money again, I'll be getting a 19" LCD with 12ms refresh that runs at 1280x1024, which is still a far way from 1600x1200. The highest-end gaming I'll be doing is probably Half-Life 2 @ 1024x768 resolution, which the 9600xt will handle fine.

If by I overpaid my 3200+ you mean I overpaid for my 3500+? I think $284 after tax and shipping is about as cheap as it gets for a 3500+ Winchester.

 

[deception``]

Thing is, I don't plan on gaming at such high resolutions in the first place; my 3-year-old LCD supports only up to 1024x768, and when I have enough money again, I'll be getting a 19" LCD with 12ms refresh that runs at 1280x1024, which is still a far way from 1600x1200.

This is irrelevant. Even at 1024x768 the 6600GT will cripple your current video card. Here are some benchmarks including the 6600GT and 9600XT. Here, you can clearly see why the 6600 is worth the extra money:












deception``