So, who's getting a 5XXX series card?

[Nebulous]

My EVGA GeForce RTX 3060 cost $369 a couple years ago, probably worth $15 now, if anyone would even want it. But, along with several other lesser cards I did finally reach 1 billion points Folding @Home... It did take over 20 years, but was a fitting milestone to mark my retirement from the project.

Woah!

 

[Woomack]

My EVGA GeForce RTX 3060 cost $369 a couple years ago, probably worth $15 now, if anyone would even want it. But, along with several other lesser cards I did finally reach 1 billion points Folding @Home... It did take over 20 years, but was a fitting milestone to mark my retirement from the project.

I also decided to retire at ~1B after seeing how my electricity bills increased, and it wasn't as much because of folding, but how the government changed prices. Yesterday, I got a new bill, which is 20% higher when separate costs are without changes. The government has been cheating us for many years. The new one is ruling for a year and isn't better. We have the most expensive electricity in the EU, and prices are going up when in many other countries, they were going down.

BTC mining somehow saved me, as I sold a couple of older cards and PSUs back then for much more than they were worth, like the GTX1080Ti, for around $800. I bought RTX3070, RX6800XT, and some lower AMDs for mining, and after a year, I sold all the AMDs with some profit + had money from mining. Later, RX6800XT went to my brother's PC (he still uses it), and I replaced RTX3070 with RTX4070.

 

[dfonda]

My EVGA GeForce RTX 3060 cost $369 a couple years ago, probably worth $15 now, if anyone would even want it. But, along with several other lesser cards I did finally reach 1 billion points Folding @Home... It did take over 20 years, but was a fitting milestone to mark my retirement from the project.

Think about all the PPD you'll make for the Team with the 3070 Ti I'll send you.

 

[Kenrou]

Nvidia finally figured out that they have "a few" fanboys that will always buy the halo product no matter the price like the Apple... "Followers"... Guess the 3080s mess during the pandemic should have been a clue...

 

[freeagent]

I "needed" a GPU during that time, and was forced to buy a bundle.

When I called the store they had 7 in stock left from 10 they got that day, when I got there, I got 1 of 2 left for the next 2 weeks lol.

Times were tough all over.

 

[mackerel]

Nvidia finally figured out that they have "a few" fanboys that will always buy the halo product no matter the price like the Apple... "Followers"... Guess the 3080s mess during the pandemic should have been a clue...

While there may be a handful who buy it because they can, there are also many who buy it because they genuinely need its features and performance. With consumer tier GPUs 4090 joins the 7900XTX with 24GB VRAM, but it is faster and with a better software stack. I'd expect 5090 to continue that. Costs more, but get more. Expensive doesn't mean poor value if you have a real use for it. Gaming isn't everything.

If anything, Strix Halo could shake "big VRAM" users up a bit. Unified memory means it can go way above 24GB. If your workload needs it, it'll be faster than a 4090. Currently only Apple really plays in that area. Having an x86/Windows option in that area could gain users.

Also, AMD may become a little more viable next gen. Starting to see some talk on perf. One claim 8800XT could be 25% lower power consumption than 7900XTX and offer 4080(S) performance in both raster and RT. That would be a side-grade in raster but a decent uplift in RT. If that is true I'd love to see AMD fanboys explode over "we don't need RT". Another claim aims a little lower at 7900XT level with no specific mention of RT. AMD themselves have hinted at an RT upgrade, but the question is if that scales with raster or more, with more being needed to catch up to NV. Of course, perf is one thing. Price is another. We have to wait and see on both.

While I'm here, Arc Battlemage announce in just over an hours time.

 

[EarthDog]

If that is true, I'd love to see AMD fanboys explode over "we don't need RT".

Abooooooooooooooooooooout face!

Being serious, I can't wait to see what AMD has to offer. If they do everything we think they're going to do and the price is right, they will be awesome mid-range cards. Considering where I'm coming from (4090), I need the same or more performance, so AMD won't be on my personal shopping list. That said, my kids are high-hz 1080p gamers and these would likely fit the bill for them upgrading from 2080 and a 3060.

 

[Kenrou]

The average consumer/gamer/streamer/"artist"/scalper doesn't need the halo product, they want it because of advertising/scamming, big difference there. Even the professional gamer doesn't need a 5090 to play CS competitively. Miner needs it I guess, as has been said here, better to have one big GPU doing the work of 10 smaller ones. Any professional company/government/etc needs them for AI now I assume. Who did I leave out?

AMD already stated they're sticking to entry and mid-tier, so although always good to see competition, at the moment I'm more interested in seeing if Arc fixed all the flaws (hardware and software) besides boosting the performance.

 

[Janus67]

The average consumer/gamer/streamer/"artist"/scalper doesn't need the halo product, they want it because of advertising/scamming, big difference there. Even the professional gamer doesn't need a 5090 to play CS competitively. Miner needs it I guess, as has been said here, better to have one big GPU doing the work of 10 smaller ones. Any professional company/government/etc needs them for AI now I assume. Who did I leave out?

AMD already stated they're sticking to entry and mid-tier, so although always good to see competition, at the moment I'm more interested in seeing if Arc fixed all the flaws (hardware and software) besides boosting the performance.

With regard to the professional company/gov there are higher end cards for data center/servers than the consumer 5090.

 

[EarthDog]

The average consumer/gamer/streamer/"artist"/scalper doesn't need the halo product, they want it because of advertising/scamming, big difference there.

While there's undoubtedly some of that going on, plenty of people need the power (and more who need it but can't afford it and have to settle). People who want the power are OK, too. Maybe they had the wool pulled over their eyes... maybe not. It's an interesting assumption that people want such items because they were scammed or got suckered in by advertising. The information is there to disseminate; how people interpret it is another story (Darwinism...). I'll also suggest that those who can't figure it out from the dozens of reviews and videos that tell you the information needed to make an informed decision, probably can't afford it in the first place.

Professional gamers also likely won't get a decidedly mid-range card (unless they can't afford it), as some titles won't get 165/240Hz+ with a mid-range card. CS is a poor example as it can run with hundreds of FPS on a potato. But other competitive games need a bit more horsepower than that to reach those FPS. But there are tons of exceptions... often comp players intentionally lower settings, not to get more FPS but to better see enemies, etc... so, it varies wildly. But I strongly disagree that the average consumer/gamer/streamer is being scammed or that clueless. Maybe I'm giving people too much credit, lol.

 

[Kenrou]

We're talking about the halo product, not a mid-high spec card. Unless you're sticking with horribly coded/optimized UE5 games, a 3080ti/4070ti/4080s will be more than enough for your gamer needs for the next few years, especially when some here keep claiming that 60fps is "good enough". Anything above is overkill unless you specifically need the typically higher amount of VRAM that comes with the **90. It's been spoken enough here that no one really agrees with the term "future-proofing" but that seems to be what we do by buying these obscenely expensive products

 

[infinitevalence]

If you knew what our electric bills were you'd understand. It's a value when you can run one expensive car instead of two half expensive cards. And trying to cure diseases isn't for everybody.

If yall want to off load some older 3060's my power is on the less expensive side, I pay about $0.105 a kWh.

 

[Janus67]

We're talking about the halo product, not a mid-high spec card. Unless you're sticking with horribly coded/optimized UE5 games, a 3080ti/4070ti/4080s will be more than enough for your gamer needs for the next few years, especially when some here keep claiming that 60fps is "good enough". Anything above is overkill unless you specifically need the typically higher amount of VRAM that comes with the **90. It's been spoken enough here that no one really agrees with the term "future-proofing" but that seems to be what we do by buying these obscenely expensive products

I think those saying that 60fps is 'good enough' are not the people that are targeting xx80-xx90 cards to begin with. 60fps is fine for people that play on consoles or that only have a 60hz display. But I'll say that with a 3080 (not a ti) and trying to play at 4K is all over the place in terms of performance. If I was targeting 1080p or 1440p then it would be sufficient.

 

[EarthDog]

We're talking about the halo product, not a mid-high spec card. Unless you're sticking with horribly coded/optimized UE5 games, a 3080ti/4070ti/4080s will be more than enough for your gamer needs for the next few years, especially when some here keep claiming that 60fps is "good enough". Anything above is overkill unless you specifically need the typically higher amount of VRAM that comes with the **90. It's been spoken enough here that no one really agrees with the term "future-proofing" but that seems to be what we do by buying these obscenely expensive products

Da. Me too.

All I'm saying is that I disagree with the statement that people buying these cards are being fooled/tricked into it. And while gaming (specifically high hz 1440p/4k) is a worthy use-case for a flagship-class card, it does other things that utilize its performance envelope...time is often money.

 

[mackerel]

The average consumer/gamer/streamer/"artist"/scalper doesn't need the halo product, they want it because of advertising/scamming, big difference there.

What scam exactly? What is wrong with want? Most of us want more, but will balance it in reality with affordability. Most buyers of the 4090 know exactly what they are getting. Maybe there are a handful that are rich enough to throw that money without thinking, but if you're in that position it doesn't matter any more.
1, Rich gamer who wants best. Not a need, but if you got the money, why not? I got a 4k OLED monitor earlier this year. I could play on a 1440p IPS, but I want more. I can't call it a need.
2, People, especially those doing machine learning, who need big VRAM. Similarly 7900XTX has 24GB. If that is "excessive" for 4090, then we shouldn't have it on 7900XTX either? Go against the "more VRAM" tide. You shall not have excess VRAM.

Because YOU don't see value in it doesn't mean others don't. You can make do with less, I'm sure I could make do with less, doesn't mean I have to settle for less. I have the 7800X3D which was the fastest gaming CPU at the time (on average). Should I not have? Likewise if buying today, the 9800X3D? I got 64GB of ram in my gaming system. I don't think I've passed half of that in usage, but I did it because there might be a small % perf improvement from it (no I still haven't quantified it with the rank testing). I get high end SSDs for more consistent performance. I could have made do with a mid range, but choose not to. The list goes on. Other parts could meet good enough. But if you get rid of the top tier part, the next one down would become it, and so on.

 

[freeagent]

I play at 4K 60 because that is all my TV can do. For me its good enough. But I only play FM at the moment. Most of my games play ok there too, a couple I have to turn on some upscaling, but for me its not a problem.

 

[Kenrou]

What scam exactly? What is wrong with want? Most of us want more, but will balance it in reality with affordability. Most buyers of the 4090 know exactly what they are getting. Maybe there are a handful that are rich enough to throw that money without thinking, but if you're in that position it doesn't matter any more.
1, Rich gamer who wants best. Not a need, but if you got the money, why not? I got a 4k OLED monitor earlier this year. I could play on a 1440p IPS, but I want more. I can't call it a need.
2, People, especially those doing machine learning, who need big VRAM. Similarly 7900XTX has 24GB. If that is "excessive" for 4090, then we shouldn't have it on 7900XTX either? Go against the "more VRAM" tide. You shall not have excess VRAM.

Read the whole thing, scalper/scamming. Never said there's anything wrong with want, simply not at those price points, read Apple (and lately, NZXT, apparently). I specified the need for more VRAM several posts ago.

Because YOU don't see value in it doesn't mean others don't. You can make do with less, I'm sure I could make do with less, doesn't mean I have to settle for less. I have the 7800X3D which was the fastest gaming CPU at the time (on average). Should I not have? Likewise if buying today, the 9800X3D? I got 64GB of ram in my gaming system. I don't think I've passed half of that in usage, but I did it because there might be a small % perf improvement from it (no I still haven't quantified it with the rank testing). I get high end SSDs for more consistent performance. I could have made do with a mid range, but choose not to. The list goes on. Other parts could meet good enough. But if you get rid of the top tier part, the next one down would become it, and so on.

Again, read before posting, never said I don't see the value, simply not at those price points, read Apple. I have 16gb ram in my gaming system (play pretty much all the latest and greatest) and have never seen it peak once for gaming, so I consider 64gb to be massive overkill, and not even qualifies for "future-proofing" anytime soon. The difference between an SSD and the best M.2 for a gamer is at best a few seconds of loading time or slightly faster installs, so again, falls in the category of want, not need. Fun to have for some, but not necessary for any. Fortunately, you can grab M.2 at decent prices, so it's pretty much a non-issue

Let me make myself perfectly clear (again), what I don't agree with, at all, is the prices of high tier GPUs and I hear the same complaint in pretty much every review I read/watch. I don't agree with people going nuts for a halo product just because it's the "best of the best of the best, SIR" on principle, and worse when they then not use even half of its potential/capabilities. Waste of money, not to mention it could have gone to someone that can actually use it properly. Overall ridiculous.

 

[mackerel]

Let me make myself perfectly clear (again), what I don't agree with, at all, is the prices of high tier GPUs and I hear the same complaint in pretty much every review I read/watch. I don't agree with people going nuts for a halo product just because it's the "best of the best of the best, SIR" on principle, and worse when they then not use even half of its potential/capabilities. Waste of money, not to mention it could have gone to someone that can actually use it properly. Overall ridiculous.

Maybe I misunderstood or just missed some of your earlier comments, and what you said might not be as clear as you thought it was. I'm likely guilty of the same. I will still disagree on this part. The likes of 4090 are expensive, but to me it can still have value. Same will likely happen with 5090. When we talk about things, knowing where the upper bound is is a data point. If it serves a use case, that's fine. It is not for everyone.

I do wonder if the problem you see is not with the product itself, but some of the people who talk about the product. Based on the channels you have posted, some of the ones I recognise I don't waste my time on. Even if they contain some factual information, the interpretation and narrative around it is very twisted. I've said it before, I genuinely wonder if they really think what they say, or are they doing it intentionally for the engagement? Maybe it is simpler than that, they have to amplify minor differences to have something to even talk about. They have also repeatedly shown they do not understand the very industry they are commenting on, leading to some viewpoints that simply don't match reality, which is then passed onto their viewers.

 

[Kenrou]

Maybe I misunderstood or just missed some of your earlier comments, and what you said might not be as clear as you thought it was. I'm likely guilty of the same. I will still disagree on this part. The likes of 4090 are expensive, but to me it can still have value. Same will likely happen with 5090. When we talk about things, knowing where the upper bound is is a data point. If it serves a use case, that's fine. It is not for everyone.

You just didn't read the whole convo, seems to be a common trait here to speed read something or skip entire portions entirely and then make wrong assumptions. Again, I never said it has no value, simply not enough at the extortionist prices they charge. It should be clear enough from the posts that this is MY view on the matter, not speaking for anyone else.

I do wonder if the problem you see is not with the product itself, but some of the people who talk about the product. Based on the channels you have posted, some of the ones I recognise I don't waste my time on. Even if they contain some factual information, the interpretation and narrative around it is very twisted. I've said it before, I genuinely wonder if they really think what they say, or are they doing it intentionally for the engagement? Maybe it is simpler than that, they have to amplify minor differences to have something to even talk about. They have also repeatedly shown they do not understand the very industry they are commenting on, leading to some viewpoints that simply don't match reality, which is then passed onto their viewers.

Embellished narrative or not, everything they said so far seems to be factually true, same as the other videos, so until something comes along that proves otherwise (feel free to help here), I have no reason to disagree with them. There are other channels (probably better), yes, and the comments are usually in agreement with them and dismay at the situation in general. Maybe, just maybe, the issue isn't me And again, because it seems like it hasn't sunk in yet, the problem isn't the product, but the pricing

 

[mackerel]

You just didn't read the whole convo, seems to be a common trait here to speed read something or skip entire portions entirely and then make wrong assumptions. Again, I never said it has no value, simply not enough at the extortionist prices they charge. It should be clear enough from the posts that this is MY view on the matter, not speaking for anyone else.

Fair. Trying to remember who said what over many posts probably didn't help. From my perspective, I do NOT see a problem with the pricing. Doesn't mean I like it.

Embellished narrative or not, everything they said so far seems to be factually true, same as the other videos, so until something comes along that proves otherwise (feel free to help here), I have no reason to disagree with them. There are other channels (probably better), yes, and the comments are usually in agreement with them and dismay at the situation in general. Maybe, just maybe, the issue isn't me

I'm in a tricky situation in that to give a recent example of where they may be off, I'd have to actually watch the content which I don't want to do. The older examples that lead me to that conclusion are faded from memory. It does feel like the mainstream gamer leaning tech tubers exist in a kind of bubble detached from the wider tech/PC space. Right now I don't actively follow any gaming focused tech tubers. Maybe I'm making problems for myself but sometimes I look in the comment section of Videocardz, and if I'm feeling really crazy, WCCF! I do wonder what happened to lead people to what they think, especially when it is usually very different to what I think. The masses are not a single entity, but for sure I'm often not finding myself in the majority.