• Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!

Some links/quotes regarding antifreeze as a coolant or lack there of.

Overclockers is supported by our readers. When you click a link to make a purchase, we may earn a commission. Learn More.

ol' man

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2001
[size=1/4]disclamer:

Some info I found on the web. Took some time to get. Thought I would share it with you. If you think glycol/water is the best coolant. Please, no offense.[/size]


I searched all over the web and I could not find anything stating that 50/50 glycol water is a better coolant than water wetter/water or pure water cooling. I found this graph though.

wwfig2.gif

Cooling System Fluid Stabilized Temperature
50% Glycol/ 50% Water 228°F
50/50 with WaterWetter 220°F
Water 220°F
Water with WaterWetter 202°F

http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/wwti.htm

Here are some links and quotes from numerous sites regarding coolant choice.

Seems the overwhelming concensus is that a H2O/water wetter combo is the best for situations where you will not have your coolant freezing.

The most convincing is from Dr. Turcotte that works for Zerex. Ironically they most likely sell alot more antifreeze than their water wetter type additive but none the less he does say the optimal coolant is a H2O or H2O/water wetter type mix.

Dr.Turcotte says

"All the antifreezes I know have one side effect that's troubling for a few of our special cars. Ethylene glycol, which makes up 96 percent of what's in the bottle, has about half the heat-transfer capability of plain water. So when you mix antifreeze and water in the recommended 50-50 proportions, you give up a quarter of your system's cooling capacity. No problem for new cars; they're engineered with capacity to spare. But I remember British roadsters of the '50s and '60s that would boil on the streets of New York in the summer, and street rods are notorious for overheating. You could cure the cooling problems of those cars by circulating plain water through the system. Most NASCAR racers do that. But corrosion sets in amazingly fast. Turcotte showed me a sample of coolant that had run 35 laps. It had flakes of red snow swirling through it—rust. I've seen similar rapid rusting when I've used plain water to leak-check a rebuilt engine.
Another approach: Increase the proportion of water in your mix, thereby trimming back both freeze and corrosion protection to gain heat transfer. Turcotte agrees that's a possibility, and he says he tests with dilutions down to 25 and 16 percent. "They survive," he says. Still, his do-no-harm approach shies from any antifreeze proportion below 40 percent.
Our conventional 50-50 mix is a one-size-fits-all solution to an American reality: Any car might drive to any North American location. So they all go out the factory door with enough ethylene glycol for freeze protection down to minus-34 degrees F. Antifreeze makers blend in the inhibitor dose assuming that we in the replacement market will dilute similarly. Other countries follow different conventions. In the tropics, where cooling is the top-most issue, the inhibitors are sometimes blended for up to 10:1 dilution.
Ideally, you could completely separate the freeze protection from the corrosion protection. Fact is, many special cars don't go out in freezing weather, particularly those Sunbelt residents that also face the greatest threat of summer—overheating.
For them, Zerex Racing Super Coolant sounds ideal. It was developed for attack boats used by Navy Seals. They must operate in tropical waters too warm to give sufficient engine cooling when you add in the inefficiency of ethylene glycol. Super Coolant contains inhibitors only—special antifoaming agents and protection during boiling—Turcotte says, and it's compatible with aluminum, iron, and other materials common in older cars.
Imagine boosting the effectiveness of your cooling system 25 percent simply by changing the radiator fluid.
Now the bad news: These aren't products waiting for you at Wal-Mart. Zerex Extended Life is serious trucker stuff sold through appropriate channels."

http://www.valvoline-technology.com...85256ae300727d2b85256bf300726f86?OpenDocument

or

http://www.valvoline-technology.com...6b140058985e/85256ae300727d2b85256bf300726f86$FILE/Zerex%20Racing%20Super%20Coolant.pdf



My favorite quote's are,


I remember British roadsters of the '50s and '60s that would boil on the streets of New York in the summer, and street rods are notorious for overheating. You could cure the cooling problems of those cars by circulating plain water through the system. Most NASCAR racers do that.

and

Ideally, you could completely separate the freeze protection from the corrosion protection. Fact is, many special cars don't go out in freezing weather, particularly those Sunbelt residents that also face the greatest threat of summer-overheating.
For them, Zerex Racing Super Coolant sounds ideal. It was developed for attack boats used by Navy Seals. They must operate in tropical waters too warm to give sufficient engine cooling when you add in the inefficiency of ethylene glycol.

Here is all that Zerex Racing Super Coolant is.
Valvoline's Zerex Racing Super Coolant is a NASCAR proven cooling system corrosion inhibitor concentrate. It is added to water at 10% by volume to cool and protect racing internal combustion engines requiring no freeze protection.
Zerex Racing Super Coolant provides a 25% improvement in heat transfer over conventional glycol based engine coolants. It maintains the cleanliness of heat exchange surfaces by preventing rust and corrosion product buildup, unlike plain water.

All it is folks is what water wetter is, basically a corrosion inhibiter.

Any way if you are not convinced yet here are more quotes although I don't think they carry as much clout as the good Dr from Valvoline/Zerex.


From:
Stewart Components is widely acknowledged as the industry
leader in high performance automotive cooling system
research and development!

The following is a list of the 10 most frequently asked questions that we receive at Stewart Components..........

Q6. What is the best coolant to use?

A6. If freezing is not a concern we recommend water with a corrosion inhibitor. If freezing is a concern, use the proper amount of antifreeze required for your climate.
http://www.stewartcomponents.com/html/tech_support/faq.asp

Racing dudes.
I'm sure that you've read or heard somewhere before that water is the best coolant. This is true as far as being able to absorb heat for a given flow rate, water does do that the best.
http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRacing/tech/coolingmods.cfm

Truths and lies.
LIE: Glycol-based antifreeze is the best engine coolant.
TRUTH: Plain water is the best coolant. Water has 2.4 times greater thermal conductivity than conventional glycol-based coolants.
http://www.performancecombos.com/21lis2.htm

[size=1/4]About the author:
Commander James L. Keyes is a retired U. S. Naval officer and pilot who has specialized in Safety and Environmental Science since graduation from the Aviation Safety curriculum at the University of Southern California in 1964. He is the author of manuals on aviation fuels, aircraft accident site remediation, industrial process control, and the removal of leaking underground storage tanks in northern Arkansas karst formations.
From 1974 until 1980, he was responsible for environmental assessment, planning and mitigation for the U. S. Navy in Bee, Live Oak, McMullen and Refugio counties in Texas.
He currently designs special machinery for broadcast and scientific use and writes operation and maintenance manuals for varied users.[/size]

Here is what Commander James L. Keyes says about coolants

Water is a real enigma for engineers in the heat transfer business. It is the most effective heat transfer fluid for almost any application imaginable, but it freezes or boils at the worst possible times,
The principal problem presented by coolant with ethylene glycol added is the drastic loss of cooling capacity. 50% glycol costs you one-third of your cooling capacity. You must either derate or overbuild your cooling system. Added to that are pumping losses for the higher viscosity fluid, annual maintenance costs, etc.
http://www.altronic.com/techdocs/water.htm


Tech tips for the coolant chalenged.
Tech Tip #4 - Coolant, Fans, and Hoses

Coolant
UNEQUIVOCALLY WATER IS THE BEST COOLANT! We recommend using a corrosion inhibitor comparable to Prestone Super Anti-Rust when using pure water. If freezing is a concern, use the minimum amount of antifreeze required for your climate.

http://www.stewartcomponents.com/html/tech_support/techtip4.asp

One final consideration - some automotive experts believe that ethylene glycol does not work as well as water in a non-pressurized cooling system. In actual tests, some Model "A" overheating problems disappeared after switching back to plain water (6).
http://www.modelatrader.com/reflibrary.html
 
OP
ol' man

ol' man

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2001
Since

"Valvoline's Zerex Racing Super Coolant is added to water at 10% by volume to cool and protect racing internal combustion engines requiring no freeze protection"

and

"provides a 25% improvement in heat transfer over conventional glycol based engine coolants."

and

"was developed for attack boats used by Navy Seals. They must operate in tropical waters too warm to give sufficient engine cooling when you add in the inefficiency of ethylene glycol. Super Coolant contains inhibitors only-special antifoaming agents and protection during boiling."

I must concur as also agree with the good Dr. David Turcotte, manager of care products, technology & product development for Valvoline and Environmental Scientist, Commander James L. Keyes as I also in study and with previously proven evidence found no actual evidence stating otherwise that 50/50 Glycol/water solutions are as a good of coolants as the corrosion inhibited >90% H2O coolants let alone better.It would seem that it indeed is not even in the same ballpark.

Computers put out way less heat than a car indeed.
But most things remain the same.
You have a heat source, a pump, a radiator, and a coolant.
Only scaled down.

As the good Dr. Turcotte says,
Our conventional 50-50 mix is a one-size-fits-all solution to an American reality.
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Cara...07_columns_bedard.xml?&keywords=bedard&page=2
Kinda like tube socks.
Basically a "idiot proof" formula but not the best.

With glycol this is one thing you need to watch out for:eek:
Silicates drop out of solution and form the notorious "green goo" blocking passages and causing overheating. Always specify low-silicate antifreeze made to engineering specification.
http://www.taraassociation.com/pdf/2002_2.pdf

If you didn't know?