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Some responses to my Cohesive Air Cooling Article

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It's not like the case falls over or something. ;D

At 5V, the motor housing temp is 30.1C in a room at 20C. CPU (1G/266 Tbird 10x140) temp using an FOP HS is 25C writing this message. At 7V, the motor housing temp is 30.9 and CPU is 22.6C. I'm using an FOP instead of my MC-462 right now, because I'm modding the MC-462 in the next room (workshop).

Hoot
 
Nice article; I think I'm going to have to try this concept
out. The fan used seems to have a rather high current draw (over 5 amps at 12V), and since it'll be mounted externally, wouldn't one of the 115V AC powered models be a reasonable alternative, especially if the required flow rate is less than 170 cfm and the modder in question isn't too handy with electrical circuits and the like?

I'm also (slowly) building a watercooling setup, and was trying to decide on how to cool and mount my radiator. If I had a case with fan openings in the front and rear, would mounting one of these fans to blow into the front opening and the radiator at the rear opening (so that the air being pushed out of the case would also flow through the radiator coils) be reasonable? I'll grant that, given Hoot's results, both watercooling and using the 170 cfm monster he used would be overkill, but a lower cfm version (say, 60-100cfm) would seem to me to be able to keep the internal case temps at or close to ambient and provide enough airflow to also help the radiator dump heat accumulated from the CPU. What do you guys think?

Given the power situation here in California, and the rising ambient temps, I need to get going on alternative cooling methods ASAP...
 
You are right about using an AC version since it is outside the case. Unfortunately an AC powered equivalent costs more and you can't vary the speed to suit your use. IE slow while doing most things and fast only when doing intense 3D gaming, Engineering Modeling and Stress/Benchmark tests.

Oh yeah, it weighs close to 4 pounds. Definitely do not mount on top of your heatsink ;D

In the case of water cooling, mounting it on the front intake and the radiator, either directly in front of it or up at the exhause hole sounds like a great idea. Here is a link to the blower page at Grainger. There are all kinds of form factors and cfm, but no dBa ratings. I guess they figure if you gotta have something that powerful, noise does not matter :D


Hoot
 
can you ball park the dBa at 5 volts? From the article, it sounded like around 35 or less (sanyo fan 60mm). Reason I ask is because I want my comp to be as quiet as possible and I'm thinking about trying your setup except I was gonna get a full tower and see if I can fit the blower inside the case at the bottom front, where the intake fan normally is.

Besides, I get a pretty good deal on Grainger stuff... I work there :)
 
Yeah, I got mine for $37.00 with my company discount. I just hooked up some different axial fans along side the blower at 5V and the closest to it is the 60mm YS-Tech 26cfm that came with my FOP-32. I mis-reported this as a Sanyo Denki in my article.

Mounting inside the case down in the bottom intake area defeats the dual purpose concept of my article. Mounted where I put it, it outperforms any available axial fan for cooling your cpu heatsink, as well as keeping the case well ventilated.

Hoot
 
I see your point. Although in my case, as long as I have good air flow through the case, my cpu temps stay pretty low... so I really don't need the cpu cooling part of it. Besides I don't have much room on either side of my case, so I couldn't fit the blower on the exterior anyway.

Either way, this is the best low noise, high cfm solution I have seen so far. Nice job man :)
 
Thanks for the update, Hoot.

I'm still unclear on a couple of issues though.

Where is the ferrite choke you mentioned?

Can the blower run at less than 5V using the potentiometer you installed?

Lastly, do you think you could post more of a "how-to" for the wiring component of the project? I'm electrically challenged to say the least, so some more detailed diagrams or pictures showing how the wires hook up would be most useful. I'm sure that there are a lot of other people in the same boat as me.
 
Are these the same as the fans for cars? Couldn't you just get one from a local auto parts shop? I think I got a replacement for my gran am for under $30
 
I'm going to be putting one of these exact fans in my new completely custom full tower case. It'll be intaking air from the Left side of the case and venting it through a vinyl dryer tube (only $1 at Home Depot for an 8 foot one) directly onto the CPU.
I'm also in the process of butchering a new Toyota hub-cap that I found. It'll be the finger gaurd\filter holder of the large intake that will be on the side of my case.

Whoopee!!!

I will have and adventurous article up soon about my case too because I'll be (gasp) chopping up an MC370 for use on my graphics card.
 
First off, I wanted to tell you all that i got an email tonight from a fellow who reproduced my setup (eerily so). He has realized a 20C improvement over his previous setup. Gave me the "warm fuzzies". ;D

I thought I mentioned in my second part to the article that I eliminated the ferrite choke as it is not needed when you run the blower off of the 3-terminal regulator. The 3TR isolates the motor from the 12V buss adequately to not need any reverse EMI filtering.

I have had my motor down as low as 4.6V, but brush motors have a sweet zone and I consider below 5V to be out of that sweet zone. No telling whether the brushes do better the slower you run the motor. Somehow, I suspect you don't want it too slow, but that's a gut feeling (non-scientific). Obviously, the bearings love running slower.

Automobiles do use centrifugal blowers, but like axial fans, they come in many form factors and speeds (cfm). Somehow, I doubt your car has a 170cfm blower on it. That, having been said, the blower does an effective job at any speed and getting an equivalent one with less cfm is just fine. Especially if it runs quieter!

I will see if I can put together a how-to-assemble tutorial on the regulator. Believe me, if you have a hand drill and can do simple soldering, it's not really much of a challenge. Certainly much easier from the labor difficulty standpoint than installing Phase 1 and 2 voltage mods on my KT7A was.

I spent the evening doing some characterizing of the performance of my setup. I spec'd the cooling capacity of my heatsink, using the stock fan compared to the Cohesive Air approach. I focused mainly on the higher wattages (calculated using radiate.exe) as that is where many decent HSFs fall down. Here's a quick comparison:

Result "A" is using my MC-462A with the stock Delta fan, a Sanyo-Denki 92x32mm 55cfm fan on the case intake and the same on the exhaust. That S-D fan is IMHO, the best form factor/noise/performance fan available for case ventilation.

Result "B" uses the Dayton 2C646A blower at 10V, the duct (in part 2 of article) and no case fans. Keep in mind, at 10V the blower noise is very close to having a window air conditioner cooling the room.

Watts---------A--------------B
98.9------.185c/w------.147c/w
94.6------.184c/w------.142c/w
91.8------.180c/w------.142c/w
87.6------.177c/w------.138c/w
83.4------.171c/w------.133c/w
80.9------.168c/w------.131c/w
76.8------.165c/w------.125c/w
72.8------.160c/w------.120c/w

While both are excellent performers for air cooling, .12c/w beats a lot of the water cooling results(problems?) I've seen posted lately. Whew, I'm beat. CUL

Hoot
 
Caravan (May 25, 2001 10:00 p.m.):
Are these the same as the fans for cars? Couldn't you just get one from a local auto parts shop? I think I got a replacement for my gran am for under $30
they both are centrifugal fans........so it should work
but look for a fan that's used more commonly, like the ones for the chevy trucks.........got mine for 15 bucks canadian (plus tax) :)
you may have to make a costom casing for it to work though :(
 
Spazzed86, where in Canada did you purchase the $15 blower? Was it online or locally? If locally, was it in Toronto?
 
I just got up. Everything is still set up from last night. I will do a run at +5V, but I think that voltage and speed is only appropriate for normal desktop applications, not CPU stress testing. Last nights results were using Prime95 Torture.

Hoot
 
I just wanted to say I've been nothing short of "obsessive" with wanting to emulate this project. After a couple days worth of planning and purchasing, I have everything built and assembled (sorry for my crappy out of focus picture taking):


To sum it up, until my voltage regulator parts get here from Digikey, I'm running it at 5V off the power supply. It makes a different type of noise, but I assure you it's much quieter than the 2 80mm intake/outtake fans, plus the 23.5cfm Sunon on an Alpha PAL6035 I had been using.

I was very disappointed with the job these axial fans were doing with my new 1.33 t-bird (idle temp: 113F full load temp: 128F) so I was desperate for a new solution. My new results with the blower are: idle temps around 92F and a full load temp (prime95 for 15 minutes) of 105F. (Room temp was 71-72F during these tests.)

Thanks 'Hoot' for this excellent innovation! If anyone has any second thoughts about doing this, because of noise concerns, etc. I can assure you this thing is nowhere near the sound of a 38cfm Delta, or even a 26cfm fan for that matter; and it seems to run fine at just 5V off the computer's power supply.
 
Xspringe (May 26, 2001 08:12 a.m.):
Hoot, would you mind adding the results for 5v too?

Okay, here's the results with lower voltages on the blower. I do not run my blower at 5V, only because it does better at 6.3V and without much increase in noise. Bear in mind, there is noise and there is noise. The biggest noise component with the blower is the sound of air rushing (not unpleasant) as opposed to the whine of the 80mm Delta 69cfm stock fan. Similar to the whine of the infamous 60mm 38cfm, but a lower frequency.

All the same, for those who wanted +5V results, I have included them as well as my personal favorite 6.3V. Here you go:

+5V Blower
Speed---Vcore---Watts---Ambient---CPU-----C/W
1500-----1.95-----94.6-----20.7C------37.3C---.175
1450-----1.85-----83.4-----20.8C------34.4C---.163
1400-----1.77-----74.8-----20.5C------32.6C---.161

+6.3V Blower
Speed---Vcore---Watts---Ambient---CPU-----C/W
1500-----1.95-----94.6-----21.1C------36.7C---.162
1450-----1.85-----83.4-----21.1C------33.1C---.151
1400-----1.77-----74.8-----21.1C------31.4C---.138

Now I'm off to do some " Honey Do " projects. :-(

Hoot
 
Hoot, nice write up. I have scribbled cooling mod notes on scaps of paper laying around everywhere and keep telling myself that I should crank out articles of my testing and results to give others an idea of what works for me. It might give them some ideas on what to try, or what not to try. I'm a scientist, so I like to test, benchmark, and check temps with every little tweak I do. That sounds like it could be a song ("...With every tweak I do....I'll be overclocking you...").
 
Hoot,

I have been following this since your first post with much interest. I believe this was long before the article. Any thoughts on how a blower would work with a Danger Den Cooling Cube? I don't expect it would handle the 450 watts of heat I am dealing with but it might be a start.
 
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