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(sticky?) TN vs PVA vs IPS, and yes, you can use a TV as a monitor.

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Theocnoob

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Location
Near Toronto Canada
I wanted to make a sticky to answer some common questions.

Basic: Display types and connection types:

CRT CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) displays use an electron gun firing through a vaccuum tube onto phosphors to create images on a screen. These are the least energy efficient, and the heaviest displays at any given size. No backlight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tube

LCD An LCD (Liquid Crystal Display) uses several thousand little colored doors, in red green and blue (as well as yellow if you want to jump on the Sharp bandwagon)in front of a back light. Depending on how widely these pixels open, and in what combination, you see shapes and colors on your display.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD

LCD BACKLIGHTING:

LCD TV/Monitor A cold cathode fluorescent tube lighting system provides backlight

LED TV/Monitor Energy efficient LED (light emitting diodes) provide backlight


-edge lit LED: LED's along the periphery of the screen provide the backlight

-full array LED: LED's behind the screen provide backlight

-full array local dimming LED: LED's behind the screen provide backlight, and can individually dim or turn off, providing for greater depth of black and a greater contrast level
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_TV

PLASMA: A plasma screen is a thin film applied to a sheet of glass. The film operates in a manner more similar to a CRT than to an LCD, as each individual pixel is made up of phosphors which create their own light. Plasma does not use a backlight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_TV

AMOLED/OLED: Still in its relative infancy, Organic Light Emitting Diode technology promises the best picture yet. Each individual pixel is also it's own light source, making for the equivalent of a local dimming LCD with millions of lights behind it, with a color gamut and contrast ratio greater than plasma in a paper thin display. OLED Tv's, which are not available as of yet at retail, and LED TV's are completely different.

CONNECTIONS

VGA- Analog signal. Predates desktop LCD panels

DVI S DVI D- Digital Video Interlink, single or dual link. Digital signal. Dual link is usually recommended for resolution over 1920x1080 and signals over 60Hz. Typically used on LCD monitors

HDMI - High Definition Multimedia Interface takes what is essentially a DVI signal and adds digital sound on the same cable. Typically used on LCD monitors, HDTVs, Component systems, Bluray and upscaling DVD players.

Displayport- Apple format digital signal. Supported by many current generation video cards.

Common questions:

Can I use a DVI out display card to run an HDMI display such as an HDTV?

Yes. Since HDMI and DVI are essentially the same video signal, an HDMI/DVI conversion cable is nothing more than a DVI cable with an HDMI connector on one end. Obviously you will lose the sound transport.

Can I use a plasma or LCD HDTV as a computer monitor?

Yes. Any display with an HDMI input can be used as an output for your PC. You may need DVI to HDMI cable.

Which display type is best for gaming?

Plasma. Plasma has a much higher contrast ratio than LCD. It also has a much faster response time than even the fastest TN panels. However, on the down side, Plasma does not typically have the brightness of an LCD (super high tier Plasmas do not share this issue to any significant extent). This means that if you have a very brightly lit room, or wish to use the display in a room fully lit by sunlight, a Plasma may not be for you. Also, many people see 'noise' in static images on a plasma due to the way that the phosphors display images. I would say that an LCD makes a better computer screen, but if you already have a plasma, there's no reason you can not use it as a PC display.

Which display type is best in a brightly lit room?

An LCD with the highest light output you can get, measured in cd/m2 (Candellas per square meter). This measures the brightness against the equivalent in candle light. A 500cd/m2 screen has a brightness equivalent to five hundred candles per square meter of screen. For those not on the metric system, a meter is approximately three feet. 12 inches = 30 centimeters. 100 centimeters = 1 meter.

Can I use my TV speakers? Or my home theater system?

Yes and yes. If you have a videocard that supports audio via HDMI out, such as any current or last gen ATi card, all you need to do is run an HDMI cable from that card to either the TV or your receiver and set your PC's default audio out to be that videocard's HDMI out.

PC doesn't have HDMI out? HDTV's up to 2008 support HDMI and RCA audio as a single input. Run a DVI to HDMI cable for video and use a 3.5mm to RCA cable from your soundcard/onboard audio. You can also run your digital audio out to your receiver if you do not have HDMI out on your PC or HDMI in on your receiver.

Less Basic: LCD Panel types, color gamut, viewing angle, response time, potential for damage, burn in, and how they affect you:

There are three types of TFT (thin film transistor) LCD displays available. Whether the display is CCFL (fluorescent) or LED (light emitting diode) backlit, the actual display itself will be one of these three panel types- TN, PVA, or IPS.

TN, twisted nematic, PVA, patterned vertical alignment, and IPS, in plane switching, are the three main types of panel available today. Others exist, such as SVA, but are typically unique to a specific manufacturer. Essentially, TN panels tend to have the worst color range and contrast ratios, but have the fastest response time. This makes them a favorite for people who play a lot of fast paced games like first person shooters. The low response time is the TN panel's strongest feature. A negative feature of TN panels, besides their limited color range, is that they discolor when you are viewing them on an angle. PVA screens have a greater color range and contrast than TN panels, but suffer from a slightly reduced response time. The viewing angle on PVA panels barely affects the coloration at all. IPS panels have the widest color range of any LCD. They have fantastic contrast, and the color won't alter from any viewing angle. However, IPS panels tend to have the poorest response times of all the panel types. This makes them less ideal for fast paced games. You can absolutely play Call of Duty on an IPS. However, odds are a player with the same skill level on a fast TN panel will defeat you.

More info on panel types: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

What is response time?
How quickly pixels can change color and brightness in miliseconds. Higher response times are associated with 'blur' in fast moving images. A 12ms screen will not produce moving images as sharply as a 2ms screen. TN panels have the lowest response times of any LCD, while plasmas have much lower response times than any LCD.

What is viewing angle?
The angle at which one can view the screen without any appreciable color warping. Measured in degrees. 180 degrees is standing beside the screen. IPS panels excel here as do plasmas as they can be viewed all the way up to 170 degrees off center.

What is color gamut/color range?
The color range that the screen is able to reproduce. An IPS screen or a plasma can produce a much wider color range than a TN lcd.

What is contrast ratio?
The total number of contrast gradiations available on screen at any given time. If a screen had a static contrast ratio of 1000:1, it could, for example, display 1000 shades of gray at once.
What is 'burn in'

Are certain types of LCD/Plasma monitors or TV's more fragile than others?
Yes. LCD's are very sensitive to damage on the LCD screen itself. Using the wrong cleaning materials or methods, having something hit the screen, someone poke it hard, etc can all cause damage. Plasmas can also be fragile because many lower end plasmas use a rather thin piece of glass that can be cracked if mistreated.

What is burn in?

If a static image is displayed on certain types of screen for an extended period of time, it can leave a 'ghost image' behind. Similar to a very faint negative, this image will look like it is literally 'burned in' to the screen. Plasmas and CRT's are most susceptible to this. LCD's are relatively immune although it is not impossible to burn in an image. You would have to actually be trying to do it though.

LCD and Plasma handling tips:

Always transport LCD or Plasma screens in their original packaging and standing upright supported by the packing foam. It is not recommended to transport either type of screen, especially plasmas, with the screen lying down either on it's face or back, as this can potentially cause undue stress and damage to the unit. If your stand is not assembled to the screen out of the box, as is typical of plasmas and larger LCD's, place the stand on your surface first, then carefully lower the screen down onto it. Never touch the panel/front glass if you can avoid it. If you must lay the panel down to install the stand, lay it down on it's face on a soft surface. Ideally a clean carpet or thick towel. Pillows are not ideal as they can bulge in the middle and place undue stress on the panel or front glass. Always handle these screens carefully. Things aren't made the way they used to be. Clean your screen gently and use an approved name brand cleaning solution and a very soft cloth, such as a micro fiber cloth. These can be purchased as a kit.
 
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One thing that I think may need mentioning, is the possibility of static image burn in on plasma displays and some CRT's. Other than that, it looks like the beginning of a great guide.:thup:
 
Good start. I've been tempted to write a guide to Panel Technology (TN/PVA/IPS) and discussion of the refresh rates/response times for a while. I personally feel like people have bought too deeply into the marketing hype about "ultra low response time" and discount the advantages of more expensive IPS panels because they think it's crap for gaming (when some are actually nice).

As for what you have so far, I think some work on an intro and better flow so it would read a little more like an article would be beneficial. It's currently more of an info dump and not entirely noob friendly.
 
Good start. I've been tempted to write a guide to Panel Technology (TN/PVA/IPS) and discussion of the refresh rates/response times for a while. I personally feel like people have bought too deeply into the marketing hype about "ultra low response time" and discount the advantages of more expensive IPS panels because they think it's crap for gaming (when some are actually nice).

As for what you have so far, I think some work on an intro and better flow so it would read a little more like an article would be beneficial. It's currently more of an info dump and not entirely noob friendly.

Maybe someone who's good with articles could polish it off? I'm only good at info dumping :).

I'd happily let someone else copy paste and edit the article. I reserve no rights on it.
 
Reading this and the front page article (Thanks, Earthdog!) makes me wonder where the new generation of LCD TVs falls in this gamut. I currently use a Sharp LC32LE700UN as my main monitor (sorry, Tiger Direct was the only link with specs I could find).

Image clarity is as good or better than that of the Samsung 2443BWX that it replaced, and viewing angles seem to be > 178 degrees, as I can look at the screen on-edge and the image is still crystal clear and colors remain identical as compared to straight on.

I do a great deal of photo and graphics work and this monitor even beats the Viewsonic VP201b S-MVA panels (that I still have) in terms of color accuracy and clarity. Perhaps I'm seeing the benefit of a full-array local dimming LED backlight? Or maybe the Aquos line features S-PVA, S-MVA or S-IPS panels?
 
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Good start. I've been tempted to write a guide to Panel Technology (TN/PVA/IPS)

I would definately read a detailed guide about the different panel technologies. Especially going into detail about the different kinds of IPS (eIPS S-IPS etc.) and what that means as far as color quality and accuracy.

The front page article Earthdog linked is a great start on this.
 
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I would definately read a detailed guide about the different panel technologies. Especially going into detail about the different kinds of IPS (eIPS S-IPS etc.) and what that means as far as color quality and accuracy.

The front page article Earthdog linked is a great start on this.

Wikipedia already has that. I link to it.
 
Wikipedia already has that. I link to it.

Their description isn't that great. For example, when I see a super expensive Dell monitor advertised as S-IPS, is it the 1998 hitachi technology or the 2001 LG technology... I'm guessing probably neither.

The front page article Earthdog linked to started to get into it, but with just a paragraph on each tech I think there is alot more that could be said. Like how much better is S-IPS compared to S-PVA. Are good S-PVA panels as good as bad S-IPS ones? Is there no such thing as a good and bad implementation, are they all the same? What the heck is eIPS? Whats the deal with 30bit color? What are the current best in class examples I could go buy? What are the best bang for buck examples I could go buy? What about color and brightness uniformity, how does each techonology stack up? What about a TN panel with RGB LED backlights how does that compare to an IPS panel with CFL backlighting? I could go on.

I don't know the answer to any of those questions. I just know enough to know that there is alot more that I don't know. Wikipedia certainly doesn't have the answers. I could probably spend days on google and find most of them, but I don't really know enough to know which sources are reliable and which sources are uninformed/outdated. I don't have the energy to do it right now since I'm not even really in the market for a new monitor and I know someone on the forums probably already knows all this and more.

The post you wrote and the front page article are great entry level guides. If someone wrote a more in depth one I'd definately read it.
 
Their description isn't that great. For example, when I see a super expensive Dell monitor advertised as S-IPS, is it the 1998 hitachi technology or the 2001 LG technology... I'm guessing probably neither.

The front page article Earthdog linked to started to get into it, but with just a paragraph on each tech I think there is alot more that could be said. Like how much better is S-IPS compared to S-PVA. Are good S-PVA panels as good as bad S-IPS ones? Is there no such thing as a good and bad implementation, are they all the same? What the heck is eIPS? Whats the deal with 30bit color? What are the current best in class examples I could go buy? What are the best bang for buck examples I could go buy? What about color and brightness uniformity, how does each techonology stack up? What about a TN panel with RGB LED backlights how does that compare to an IPS panel with CFL backlighting? I could go on.

I don't know the answer to any of those questions. I just know enough to know that there is alot more that I don't know. Wikipedia certainly doesn't have the answers. I could probably spend days on google and find most of them, but I don't really know enough to know which sources are reliable and which sources are uninformed/outdated. I don't have the energy to do it right now since I'm not even really in the market for a new monitor and I know someone on the forums probably already knows all this and more.

The post you wrote and the front page article are great entry level guides. If someone wrote a more in depth one I'd definately read it.

I dont know. I just know the basics :eek:
 
Their description isn't that great. For example, when I see a super expensive Dell monitor advertised as S-IPS, is it the 1998 hitachi technology or the 2001 LG technology... I'm guessing probably neither.

The front page article Earthdog linked to started to get into it, but with just a paragraph on each tech I think there is alot more that could be said. Like how much better is S-IPS compared to S-PVA. Are good S-PVA panels as good as bad S-IPS ones? Is there no such thing as a good and bad implementation, are they all the same? What the heck is eIPS? Whats the deal with 30bit color? What are the current best in class examples I could go buy? What are the best bang for buck examples I could go buy? What about color and brightness uniformity, how does each techonology stack up? What about a TN panel with RGB LED backlights how does that compare to an IPS panel with CFL backlighting? I could go on.

I don't know the answer to any of those questions. I just know enough to know that there is alot more that I don't know. Wikipedia certainly doesn't have the answers. I could probably spend days on google and find most of them, but I don't really know enough to know which sources are reliable and which sources are uninformed/outdated. I don't have the energy to do it right now since I'm not even really in the market for a new monitor and I know someone on the forums probably already knows all this and more.

The post you wrote and the front page article are great entry level guides. If someone wrote a more in depth one I'd definately read it.

I could probably only answer some of those questions - the questions of "how much better" is really hard since you'd really have to look at reviews, but at least some of those differences in panel could be described from an engineering point of view (I'd have to do a little more reading since I'm not fully aware of the details for all of the manufacturers' variants, such as e-IPS).

As for the higher bit color, it comes down to how colors are defined digitally. The actual panel can only display a discrete amount of colors which are typically described by color depth in bits, 24bit = 8bit (red) x 8bit (green) x 8bit (blue) = 256 (red) x 256 (green) x 256 (blue) = 16.78million colors (with TN typically only being able to display 18-bit and it fakes 24-bit by dithering). 24-bit color is standard now (aka "Truecolor"). Adobe Photoshop (for example) can describe colors in 30-bit and pass it on through a compatible card. The 30-bit monitors can describe colors more accurately (in their internal look up table), but I don't know if there are any consumer level panels that can actually display those colors... so it often doesn't mean much as to what you can see - especially since native windows just displays things in 24-bit.

In the end, to put together a detailed article I'd need to do more research... and I'm debating if I want to go to that effort (or if it's really even desired by the community). Maybe something more practical like the need for color calibration and how backlighting types affect the uniformity would be a better start... Really, I think this just shows that we are in need of some stickies (in my opinion).
 
Sorry to double post, but this is a separate thought.


As to the OP again, in relation to response time...

Theocnoob said:
You can absolutely play Call of Duty on an IPS. However, odds are a player with the same skill level on a fast TN panel will defeat you.

I think you are confusing response time and input lag when you make this comment. Input lag is a real problem and a large lag could make you less competitive in a fast paced FPS by delaying YOUR response to what's happening because of the delay, while the response time of a screen is how you described it (with high response time simply giving a blurry image in fast moving scenes). Manufacturers don't quote input lag in their specs and some monitors are much worse than others. I recommend looking at reputable review sites that measure input lag (typically relative to a CRT) before making purchases.

Please don't take any of this as me being harsh, I just want to give some constructive criticism. (that and deceptive marketing hype ticks me off when it confuses end users)
 
What about MVA Multi-domain vertical alignment Panels? I had a P-MVA monitor that was as good or better than my other E-IPS Monitor. Give a mention to the MVA panel.
 
Sorry to double post, but this is a separate thought.


As to the OP again, in relation to response time...



I think you are confusing response time and input lag when you make this comment. Input lag is a real problem and a large lag could make you less competitive in a fast paced FPS by delaying YOUR response to what's happening because of the delay, while the response time of a screen is how you described it (with high response time simply giving a blurry image in fast moving scenes). Manufacturers don't quote input lag in their specs and some monitors are much worse than others. I recommend looking at reputable review sites that measure input lag (typically relative to a CRT) before making purchases.

Please don't take any of this as me being harsh, I just want to give some constructive criticism. (that and deceptive marketing hype ticks me off when it confuses end users)

Nope. I'm talking about response time. But the fact that I forgot to mention input lag is another reason why someone else needs to help out with this thing or just rip some of my stuff into theirs.

Lower response time generally just results in a slightly blurred image. If I get into position to snipe a guy in Battlefield and I have 1/10th of a second to get a shot off, the fraction of that 1/10th that he's blurry because of my low response time could get me merked if he's better than I am.
 
Nope. I'm talking about response time. But the fact that I forgot to mention input lag is another reason why someone else needs to help out with this thing or just rip some of my stuff into theirs.

Lower response time generally just results in a slightly blurred image. If I get into position to snipe a guy in Battlefield and I have 1/10th of a second to get a shot off, the fraction of that 1/10th that he's blurry because of my low response time could get me merked if he's better than I am.
1/10th sec = 100ms. IPS pixel response times are in the range of less than 10ms (the dell U3011 has 7ms for example).

I understand that you were just throwing numbers out there, but input lag will kill you much more than a blury image for half a frame (it won't even be perceived that long since it's ramping to that value). The input lag on my TV was over 100ms while the lag on my projector is around 30ms. You don't hear people complaining about the massive lag when they are playing Halo on their TVs, but they'll start complaining that 7ms response time is so much worse than 2ms.

Maybe I'm the only one who has a sore spot when it comes to response time claims, but I just can't see the difference between 2ms and 7ms in real life and tend to think that there are bigger issues to deal with in monitor tech.
 
I think this article, if you want to make it better, should just stick with facts instead of trying to offer advice or opinions. Saying that you are going to lose if you have an IPS monitor or that plasma is best for gaming is misleading at best and downright wrong and deceitful at worst. Also plenty of useful information is left out that people might find useful, such as input lag and native resolutions. Very overly brief descriptions of different display types that gloss over many advantages and disadvantages doesn't help either. But you still find space to go into detail about your personal opinions based on what you read on wikipedia, and find the space for discussing the handling of screens. It really just seems like you read a bunch of wikipedia articles on the subject of displays and instead of coming up with something more helpful, in depth, and/or concise, you just typed up whatever you could remember off the top of your head and added in some of your own musings.

You really just need to get some focus for this. Are you trying to write a book on this subject, have some short descriptions of different display technologies for total noobs, bring up lots of points to consider for someone buying a new display, give some tips on setting up displays, or something else entirely? Find some purpose for this and cut it down to just exactly what fits within those bounds. Then greatly expand upon what you have and you could easily be left with something that will be informative, easily digested, and should be stickied.
 
You should know response times truly don't matter. It's really the Hz. A 120Hz offers smoother game play and picture over a 60Hz. It really takes a monitor more than 8ms to go from white to black.
 
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