Strix or Giga G1 overclock more or is it a silicon lottery?

[EarthDog]

Posts snipped from another thread. This is in regards to the Strix vs the Giga G1 as far as overclocking potential...

As a Strix 980 Ti owner ill tell you right now : pick another brand. Gigabyte, EVGA, Zotac are better for gaming/overclocking, the Strix is better for day to day and "light" gaming because of its 0db implementation (it does zero noise until it reaches 60c and the fans kick in). It has locked voltage - 1.237v and unless you mod your BIOS you will never reach your full OC potential, add to that at least in my case coil noise.

Do not mistake what i am saying, it is still one of the best in the market and well worth its price tag BUT we are "hamstrung by the board" from the start.

As to the model number there are 3 Strix, STRIX-GTX980TI-DC3OC-6GD5-GAMING, STRIX-GTX980TI-DC3-6GD5-GAMING and POSEIDON-GTX980TI-P-6GD5, might be the denomination of the 1st 2, the only difference being clock rates and water cooling compatibility for the Poseidon.

Hamstrung by the board? This thing was made for overclocking!

Overclocking was pretty easy to accomplish using the GPU Tweak III utility. I ended up at the same 24/7 stable overclock as with the EVGA GTX 980 Ti Classified, but with a couple minor differences. First, it took about 10mv more on the STRIX to stabilize the same overclock settings. The good news is that the STRIX allowed up to +87mv of voltage increase, whereas the Classified topped out at +50mv. One other difference was the power target limit, which was limited to 110% on the STRIX versus the 115% that was available on the Classified. Give a little, take a little it seems! In the end, we got the GPU core set to 1300 MHz base/1401 MHz boost, but the actual boost clock held pretty steady at 1527 MHz… Impressive stuff there!

1500 mhz is about where most crap out. There is voltage control etc.. Take a look at our review or others to see.
http://www.overclockers.com/asus-strix-gtx-980-ti-graphics-card-review/

 

[Kenrou]

Hamstrung by the board? This thing was made for overclocking!

Yes i was fed the same bullcrap when i bought it, again "It has locked voltage - max 1.237v". For minmaxers everywhere this is the difference between getting stuck at 1500mhz or going 1560mhz/1600mhz as i have seen many Gigabyte users do. Had i know it was designed this way i had gone another brand as well, and i cant return it now



If you're one of those ASIC "beliebers" you know i can do much more then 1493mhz (underclocked to 1480mhz after 63c) with this board. Oddly enough my Strix 970 also "crapped out" at 1493mhz...

 

[EarthDog]

Not a huge a asic believer (has some merit of course). Luck of tbe draw.

All 980ti have a voltage limit. Are others higher? My msi gaming one is right around there and so is the classified. It's how all modern nvidia cards work. I'll look up some giga reviews though and report back later.

NZK - grow up, lol...that post wasn't neded. it's about getting facts on the table...no matter who is right or wrong. I can sure stand to learn some things...but from my review, and looking at others, around 1500mhz+ was the bell curve and all nvidia cards have locked voltage around the same level.

Just takes a link to prove otherwise.

OTOH -https://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_G1_Gaming/33.html

Looks about the same to me...when I get to the office I will look up more.

 

[Kenrou]

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015...ti_g1_gaming_video_card_review/4#.VgvAgfTouUk

http://www.overclock.net/t/1562198/gtx-980-ti-gigabyte-g1-gaming-impressions-and-oc

http://www.overclockers.com/gigabyte-gtx-980-ti-g1-gaming-graphics-card-review/

For the love of Pete, look at clocks and especially VOLTAGES.

As i said the card will be fine for everything regardless of brand and the Strix is quieter (until it hits 60c) but since the voltage is locked it will not overclock as well as the others EVEN IF you mod BIOS because apparently nVidia has done something to the drivers that stops or hinders high overclocks.

Speaking of Classified, saw a video on Youtube the other day about a "OC professional" that made it go to +- 1900mhz on LN2, will link if i catch it again.

 

[EarthDog]

From your first link (H) -

The final overclock therefore is 1535MHz with 1.2430V

2nd (OCN)-

Final thoughts... for now I'm staying on stock bios. The card eats every game I try in 1080p so no problems there. The gain from unlocked bios is ok compared to stock but the temps are higher thus fans spin loud like crazy.
Stock 1.8V - 1483Mhz core 2030Mhz mem.
Stock 1.224V (voltage slider) - 1544Mhz core 2000Mhz mem - has temp throttling problems
Unlocked 1.274V - 1544Mhz core 2000Mhz mem

3rd (our site) -

We were able to overclock the GPU to 1325 MHz base/1414 MHz boost/1539 MHz actual boost.

that I already linked that supports what I am saying. Your links support what I am saying though. All of them... Did I miss something?

apparently nVidia has done something to the drivers that stops or hinders high overclocks.

This is on every NVIDIA card as I said already . However, its a BIOS limit on the cards. You still use the same exact drivers to reach higher clocks, you just get an unlocked BIOS. In order to get NVIDIA to bless an AIB's design, it has to fit within certain parameters. That means voltage limits. This is how they have worked for a couple of generations now.

Speaking of Classified, saw a video on Youtube the other day about a "OC professional" that made it go to +- 1900mhz on LN2, will link if i catch it again.

Yep, but in stock bios form, its limit is about the same as others. See our review on the front page.

All NVIDIA cards have voltage limits and power limits. Some are higher than others (power limits). But the voltage is all relatively close (there is always some variance there). But you can see that they all mostly top out in that lowish 1500Mhz range around the same volts.

EDIT:

If you have read our previous GTX 980 Ti reviews, you’ll already know that literally all the cards have come within spitting distance of one another when it comes to final overclocks. This is due to the top-level limitations that have been put upon them by NVIDIA; there’s a maximum of 10% more power overhead while voltage is limited to an additional 87mV...
... Final clock speeds were exactly as expected at 1493MHz on the core and 8000MHz even on the GDDR5. Neither of these are spectacular when compared against other competitors –which achieved almost identical frequencies- but put up against the reference GTX 980 Ti, they absolutely fly.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...70053-asus-gtx-980-ti-strix-oc-review-18.html

[H] -

Our actual in-game frequency also improved to a stable 1531MHz. We find the actual voltage it was running at in-game was 1.2180V. We also noticed an 800MHz gain on the memory, bringing the memory frequency up to 8GHz even.

Comparing these results to the GIGABYTE GTX 980 Ti G1 GAMING, we find the two video cards extremely similar in overclocking capability.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015...rix_dciii_oc_video_card_review/4#.VgvXfPlVhBc


EDIT2: What I think you may have meant to say is that it has a lower POWER LIMIT than a lot of cards, not voltage as that is the same. Its not being hamstrung by the board as you initially said, or drivers, but the BIOS. But the clocks are in the ballpark of others, even with that limit as you can see by the links. No NVIDIA card is good out of the box for maxing it out.

EDIT3: What is funny in a few other reviews with the Strix that didn't seem to break 1500Mhz, they seem to just slam the voltage to the max raise the power limit up and go. Sadly, that isn't the best way to reach max clocks on NVIDIA cards due to the power limits. If you give it another .087v (+87mv), it will tend to hit the power limit sooner than just finding that sweet spot. I see some also crank the fans... well, the fans count against the power limit too... so that extra 5-10W gained by lowering fan speeds also gives one a bit more headroom since temps are not an issue.

 

[Kenrou]

Do you purposely want to turn everything into an argument ? only thing i said is that Strix will not overclock as much as the other brands because of locked voltage at 1.237v which will undervolt to 1.218v as soon as it hits 63c. Less voltage (up to 1.281v which seems to be the safety limit) = less OC capability. I said nothing about the power limiter which totally in agreement is also very low for a board that has 12+2 phases.

So far everything you linked and re-linked proves me right, off the box gigabyte and others will overclock higher then the Strix.

What is funny in a few other reviews with the Strix that didn't seem to break 1500Mhz, they seem to just slam the voltage to the max raise the power limit up and go. Sadly, that isn't the best way to reach max clocks on NVIDIA cards due to the power limits. If you give it another .087v (+87mv), it will tend to hit the power limit sooner than just finding that sweet spot. I see some also crank the fans... well, the fans count against the power limit too... so that extra 5-10W gained by lowering fan speeds also gives one a bit more headroom since temps are not an issue.

Also true, in my case i have voltage at +39 for a stable 1492mhz (1480mhz underclock) and fan curve as pic below, keeps it at peak 77c and very silent

 

[EarthDog]

Do you purposely want to turn everything into an argument ? only thing i said is that Strix will not overclock as much as the other brands because of locked voltage at 1.237v

Sorry. What you see as arguing, I go into it as correcting misinformation (be it mine or yours)/searching for knowledge.

You stated this out of the gate (to which I took exception to/my talking points):

It has locked voltage - 1.237v and unless you mod your BIOS you will never reach your full OC potential...

....we are "hamstrung by the board" from the start.

I simply refuted those points because I believe them not to be true and supported my assertion(s). We see several reviews with the clocks right there!

1. ALL of them have locked voltages (with some variance as is natural).
2. ALL cards you will need to mod your bios to reach its full overclocking potential.
3. Again, perhaps I took 'hamstrung by the board' too literally, because its not the board or its power delivery, nor drivers, that are the problem. Its NVIDIA and the BIOS on the AIB's cards, not just the Strix.

Our card topped out at 1539 MHz...[H] at 1531 Mhz right where the Gigas did (I linked these up). As I said about some of the other reviews I looked at, they were knuckleheads and cranked the voltage slamming into the power limit. If they would have done it right, like our review did, I think we would see more of them in that low 1500MHz range. Not to mention these from other reputable review sites that disagree with your points. Its not just me that feels this way and is trying to 'argue' with you Kenrou.

Our actual in-game frequency also improved to a stable 1531MHz. We find the actual voltage it was running at in-game was 1.2180V. We also noticed an 800MHz gain on the memory, bringing the memory frequency up to 8GHz even.

Comparing these results to the GIGABYTE GTX 980 Ti G1 GAMING, we find the two video cards extremely similar in overclocking capability.

If you have read our previous GTX 980 Ti reviews, you’ll already know that literally all the cards have come within spitting distance of one another when it comes to final overclocks. This is due to the top-level limitations that have been put upon them by NVIDIA; there’s a maximum of 10% more power overhead while voltage is limited to an additional 87mV...
... Final clock speeds were exactly as expected at 1493MHz on the core and 8000MHz even on the GDDR5. Neither of these are spectacular when compared against other competitors –which achieved almost identical frequencies- but put up against the reference GTX 980 Ti, they absolutely fly.

I will just leave the facts on the table for the OP. He can do with them as he sees fit.

 

[Kenrou]

Also don't know if this is only mine or not, running ex Heaven/Valley on the afterburner graphic we will see that the board constantly hits the power limit and above up to 115% on stock BIOS, at +50/+400 1492mhz/8000mhz respectively. Interestingly enough this does not happen on 3DMark where it barely hits 95%

 

[EarthDog]

Also don't know if this is only mine or not, running ex Heaven/Valley on the afterburner graphic we will see that the board constantly hits the power limit and above up to 115% on stock BIOS, at +50/+400 1492mhz/8000mhz respectively. Interestingly enough this does not happen on 3DMark where it barely hits 95%

All that tells me is that Heaven and Valley beat on the GPU more than whichever 3DMark you are running (there are several). Which is normal. That is why we use Heaven/Valley for power consumption and heat values in our reviews.

 

[Kenrou]

Sorry. What you see as arguing, I go into it as correcting misinformation (be it mine or yours).

You stated this out of the gate (to which I took exception to/my talking points): I simply refuted those points because I believe them not to be true and supported my assertion(s).

1. ALL of them have locked voltages (with some variance as is natural).
2. ALL cards you will need to mod your bios to reach its full overclocking potential.
3. Again, perhaps I took 'hamstrung by the board' too literally, because its not the board or its power delivery, nor drivers, that are the problem. Its NVIDIA and the BIOS on the AIB's cards, not just the Strix.

Our card topped out at 1539 MHz...[H] at 1531 Mhz right where the Gigas did (I linked these up). As I said about some of the other reviews I looked at, they were knuckleheads and cranked the voltage slamming into the power limit. If they would have done it right, like our review did, I think we would see more of them in that low 1500MHz range. Not to mention these from other reputable review sites that disagree with your points.

I will just leave the facts on the table for the OP. He can do with them as he sees fit.

So the other websites i linked aren't reputable or reputable enough, regardless of how they reached the overclocks or maybe the websites you linked are just incompetent on how they do the overclocks ? surely i am missing your point, why would your links prove anything other then "Strix is slower" ? it doesn't matter if its by 1mhz or 1000mhz, slower is slower.

I made the point very clearly and calmly and i am speaking of 1st hand experience, so i will say it for the 3rd time so maybe it hits home : Strix is slower off the box. Voltage is locked (point conceded all are except Classified) lower then the other brands at comparable quality. It results in lower overclocks. Lower overclocks result in less performance = SLOWER.

Now to the OP, as i said before all brands will make your computer fly in pretty much all 2014/2015 games at 1080p 60fps max settings including Crysis 3. It is a matter of how much "anal" you are with min-maxing your gear or maybe you want a quieter board or you don't care about noise. It is really up to you, based on available info. IN MY PERSONAL OPINION with 1st hand experience i am telling you try another brand, for example Gigabyte, but i am a self confessed min-maxer. To you the Strix might be the best thing that ever happened to you in computer terms or you might come to agree with me in the future.

 

[Johan45]

Heaven has always been one of the toughest benchmarks for a GPU hands down. For me I lose anywhere between 20 and 50 mhz depending on the card on that bench compared to 3DMark FSE. E_D is correct though the cards are all about the same from factory just because NVidia puts limits on it. If the manufacturer wants to sell them they have to adhere to them. The biggest difference is most likely the chip itself. Some are just better than others. Woomack and I had the same 980 strix and mine would go further unlocked than his did but his went further on stock bios.
Besides at the end of the day with the kind of horsepower you can squeeze out of thes cards 30 MHz isn't going to make a difference unless you're benching. Us benchers usually void the warranty withing the first few hours of ownership so it' irrelevant.
Asus Strix is a good card and if someone is willing to flash the BIOS it also has the parts in reserve for some awesome clocks. I could hit 1733 on the 980 with water cooling

I'll leave this here just so you know I'm not making this up.

 

[EarthDog]

If you want to hang your hat on a difference of 5 Mhz which translates to darn near zero performance gains you can see in game and negligible in benchmarks as well (while also seeming to gloss over the fact that its a silicon lottery issue and not the fault of the board/bios/voltage which is my main point of concern here and why you seem to want to recommend a different brand)... you are absolutely correct and I sincerely apologize for any trouble I have caused trying to dig down to the bottom of this. The reality of it all is what I said, and other reviewers said, there is VERY little difference between them. In fact, not even enough to sway them to a different brand, IMO...

Also, the classified is locked. From our review:

If you’re wondering what PrecisionX and the Classified offers as far as overclocking options, the voltage can be set up to +50mv, power target to +115%, and temperature target to 91 °C.

The LN2 runs were done with modded BIOS, not the stock one.

Sorry, what is a "min maxer"? I have never heard that term before...

 

[Kenrou]

Heaven has always been one of the toughest benchmarks for a GPU hands down. For me I lose anywhere between 20 and 50 mhz depending on the card on that bench compared to 3DMark FSE. E_D is correct though the cards are all about the same from factory just because NVidia puts limits on it. If the manufacturer wants to sell them they have to adhere to them. The biggest difference is most likely the chip itself. Some are just better than others. Woomack and I had the same 980 strix and mine would go further unlocked than his did but his went further on stock bios.
Besides at the end of the day with the kind of horsepower you can squeeze out of thes cards 30 MHz isn't going to make a difference unless you're benching. Us benchers usually void the warranty withing the first few hours of ownership so it' irrelevant.
Asus Strix is a good card and if someone is willing to flash the BIOS it also has the parts in reserve for some awesome clocks. I could hit 1733 on the 980 with water cooling

I'll leave this here just so you know I'm not making this up.

View attachment 169342

Pretty amazing stuff, never been one for watercooling myself, never had the time or expertise for it sadly hows the noise from the pumps when you are going full tilt ?

 

[Kenrou]

If you want to hang your hat on a difference of 5 Mhz which translates to darn near zero performance gains you can see in game and negligible in benchmarks as well (while also seeming to gloss over the fact that its a silicon lottery issue and not the fault of the board/bios/voltage which is my main point of concern here and why you seem to want to recommend a different brand)... you are absolutely correct and I sincerely apologize for any trouble I have caused trying to dig down to the bottom of this. The reality of it all is what I said, and other reviewers said, there is VERY little difference between them. In fact, not even enough to sway them to a different brand, IMO...

I'm hanging my hat on the fact that faster is faster and slower is slower. its basic math. Little or big difference amounts to the same, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, that is my whole point. You might make light of it but other might not and you don't care enough to concede that point. Silicon lottery averages out on a scale like everything else, and the average reads that the Strix is slower then some other brands BECAUSE of the lower voltage as well as relative quality of the chip.

This was also the case of the Strix 970 as far as i know, the Gigabyte version allowed for far better overclocks without modding because of voltage/construction/cooling was it not ?

As i respect your opinion as a proven helper and overclocker you should also respect the opinion of other people here, not drive your point home and ignore everything else and an apology means nothing if you're still trying to make a point in the process. Nothing you linked so far disproves what i said about lower voltage and speed

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder.....Could I rig a working model steam engine up to work as a pump *total steampunk watercooling mod in my brain*

Assuming the whole thing is outside the house don't see why not

 

[EarthDog]

All I know NZK is that the facts are on the table. The reality of it is that the Strix is no better or worse than any other aftermarket card on the market as far as its potential clockspeeds go. The examples I posted of 1531/1539 versus a 1544 Mhz in ONE review (the rest were right around 1500-1535 MHz), doesn't translate to squat. I am a bencher, I do use LN2, I game and overclock and it is as good a choice as any other. Again, the only difference between the cards for all intents and purposes is the silicon lottery. If I were to bench a 980Ti under LN2, I would happily do it with the Strix or Classified... both of which require a BIOS mod to reach its full potential in that environment.

If others are concerned about that meager difference between the cards, then they simply don't understand what the limiting factor is and how we have no control over it (silicon lottery, not a limitation on the Strix).

I have said my peace, and then some ( I know I tend to try to pound a point in, but its for good reason, LOL). Kenrou, if you would still like to discuss things, my PM box is always open... I respect your opinion, I am just trying to inform you its basis is off which may (should) reshape your thinking... but you aren't having it, and that is ok. Facts are on the table (Strix is just as good as the Giga), they can do the talking.

 

[Kenrou]

Each review writes a different set of facts, and the average majority points to my being right. That is how we do things in the real world, correct ? Anyone that reads our argument will see the point i am trying to make except apparently you which is truly unfortunate. IF you break all BIOS/locks then the Strix would most likely win because of the mentioned 12+2/cooling but that is not the case as the OP made no mention of overclocking or modding.

I gave several reviews (and i can get many more) that show that other versions are faster out of the box (and i made sure to repeat the sentence "out of the box" after the 1st post which you chose to ignore) as most people will not mod the BIOS.

 

[NZKshatriya]

why are you aiming your post at me, Im not the one arguing about cards, nor am I the original poster lol

 

[Johan45]

Like I said before it really depends on the chip most of the time. One thing I do know about the strix/DCII is that the NON-reference design had a lot of advantages over other cards but maybeMy perspective is skewed toward performance since any card I have had to really make it go requires a new bios. But that being said it's funny I punched in a search and came up with this

http://techreport.com/review/28685/geforce-gtx-980-ti-cards-compared/6

According to them the STRIX comes out on top in all their tests. The thing with reviews is you can almost always find the answer you want to hear, just have to find the right site. Maybe the card you got was just average since tha's what it sounds like. I believe that a lot of the hype comes from the "golden" chips that do pop up. No matter if it's GPUs,CPUs or memory of identical sample they will all perform differently. That's why serious benchers spend so much time and money looking for the CPU that'll hit 6.5-7 Ghz they're out there just not many of them.

No matter what though for the money the STRIX is the better card. Whether you use it to it's potential or not.

As for the pump it's not all that noisy IMO, not like having a ton of fans whiling this I know.

 

[EarthDog]

Because you wanted more information NZK...so I summarized things.

Faster out of the box is true. The GIga is clocked faster. But its overclocking potential is the same, its just based on the silicon lottery. If you want to talk averages, you will recall that the few reviews I looked at that had the 1493 Mhz clocks on the strix, those knuckle heads slammed 87mv at it and may have created a glass ceiling as you may recall me saying earlier. So not sure I can really believe that.

1512 Mhz here for the G1 - https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_G1_Gaming/33.html
1477 here for the G1 - http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gigabyte_geforce_gtx_980_ti_g1_gaming_soc_review,35.html
1429 Mhx for the G1 - http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2015/08/25/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-980-ti-g1-gaming-revie/11

SILICON. LOTTERY.

 

[Kenrou]

In my case i am completely buggered, even with a modded BIOS mine cant go above 1492mhz without graphical errors and driver crash. My 4 mates that bought a Strix ended up at my OC or lower, the other 7 that bought a Gigabyte are ALL 1530mhz+, too many coincidences form a pattern.