Strix or Giga G1 overclock more or is it a silicon lottery?

[EarthDog]

Gigabyte and Zotac and Classified (there may be more, i don't know) have a higher voltage limit then the Strix therefore higher OC capability regardless of "silicon lottery".

Not sure on the Zotac, but the Classified only has 50mv, the Strix is 87mv.

i made this point in my very 1st post.

You did. My apologies. Then it was giga giga giga from your examples so I ran with that.

troll the forums a bit, i don't mean just this one, count how many people go YAY my gigabyte went above 1500mhz and then do the same with the Strix. You will find many more Gigabyte then Strix. Same i am noticing now for the EVGA and Zotac.

Its your job to support your assertions. And as I said, we would need a list to actually quantify things. You may very well be right, but the reviews we listed are not conclusive.

the OC results of both cards are close enough that it can't be said with 100% confidence whether the differences are from the BIOS, silicon lottery, or both.

+1. Its just no reason to 'shun' a brand which is what happened here and my entire point lost in all the minutia.

 

[Kenrou]

Well we were talking about stock boards with stock BIOS but somewhere along the line EarthDog changed the beat. I already did what i said and found exactly what i said, many more Gigabyte, Zotac and EVGA owners going above 1500mhz then Strix, and i posted so. It is YOUR job to educate yourselves further then theory and go into the community and hear the people. I have experiences, i share experiences, i LISTEN to the experiences of other people to decide what to do next. EarthDog seems content in he's knowledge and did nothing to pursue it further then reviews which are only a VERY SMALL amount of said knowledge.

Even in the ROG forums people are complaining about the low OC the Strix has compared to other brands in general/average and how not many get out of the 1492mhz rut.

"If you want to hang your hat on a difference of 5 Mhz which translates to darn near zero performance gains you can see in game and negligible in benchmarks as well (while also seeming to gloss over the fact that its a silicon lottery issue and not the fault of the board/bios/voltage which is my main point of concern here and why you seem to want to recommend a different brand)... you are absolutely correct" - that was my point all along, Strix is generally slower compared to other brands and IMO its because the voltage limiter is set too low because 1.237v underclocks to 1.218v after 63c. AGAIN it makes no difference if its 1mhz or 1000mhz, slower is slower.

Show me the board that makes 1500mhz + with 1.218v and i will tell you the guy won the "silicon lottery" as you name it, the AVERAGE person will not be so lucky. Average is what we use for quality control isnt it ? so IN AVERAGE the Strix will be slower then the other brands because of lower voltage limit.

 

[EarthDog]

I didn't change anything, just following you.

I post and view more fourms in a day than you likely do in a week (lol @ me). Doesn't mean I see all threads and all happenings... hence why I asked you to support your assertion. That doesn't sound like being content with my knowledge. NOt to mention I went out and snagged some review results too. That sounds like I am reaching out asking for it, and looking, no? Yesssssss.

The classified in our review did it. I have it in my hands, actually.

 

[Kenrou]

Correct me if im wrong the Classified is made with all the best components right ? the best of everything as i am told, not mass produced average stuff like the rest of the GTXs. Are you surprised she pulls it off ? and do all of them ? is it average or is it a fluke, a "silicon lottery winner"...

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The classified in our review did it. I have it in my hands, actually.

BTW if you don't want it, if you prefer the Strix over a Classified send it my way please, i will treat her nicely like she deserves

 

[EarthDog]

The Kingpin is their limited flagship, otherwise, the Classy silicon is binned for its base clocks and nothing else.

 

[Kenrou]

I post and view more fourms in a day than you likely do in a week (lol @ me).

Very true, i have a job and wife and 4 kids and i play a lot online, i came here for support when i am in need of advice, not to try to help everyone and managing half at best. Maybe a change of pace would suit you ? maybe less forums and a little more... everything else ?

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The Kingpin is their limited flagship, otherwise, the Classy silicon is binned for its base clocks and nothing else.

Isn't the Classified the Uber board that hits all records ? thought it was better then the Kingpin ?

 

[EarthDog]

I appreciate the free advice... but there is plenty of time for my two kids, wife, reviews, and online gaming after they crash. My job allows me to post during the day like this. This kills time during the day.

The Kingpin is the flagship limited edition. If you are talking mass production, then yes, the classified is the flagship. However, its binned no different than the ACX models except to reach its own clocks and power thresholds (IIRC).

 

[Kenrou]

Right i am confusing with the Kingpin then, one of them is supposed to have completely unlocked voltage and be best binned and best parts. I would still love to have other opinions and other voices, just 4 people pippin in is rather dull. Guess this is not a decent enough topic

 

[Woomack]

So many long posts and most are only waste of space on the forums.

All and I mean all GTX900 series graphics cards have exactly the same max voltage limit set in standard BIOS because all manufacturers are Nvidia partners and they simply have to set it like that or they lose support. If you see higher limits in software then it means that bios has lower voltage as default. In Gigabyte soft you can set +100mV but it doesn't mean that card will run at higher voltage than on EVGA or ASUS. Check it with multimeter and you will know for sure what is max. Max using soft without any unlock should be something near 1.27V.

ASIC won't tell you exactly if card is good or not. However antything 70% will give you good results. Best cards have ~85%, worst ~55%. Good are counting as ~72%+ but there are exceptions.
ASUS Strix are good cards but because of their design you have to set voltage higher ( and I mean much higher ) than on other brands to pass some clock ( usually 1500+MHz ). What is good is that you can disable OCP/OVP using special BIOS. On most other brands you have to make hard mods or card will stuck at ~1.3V.

High voltage = higher temps = lower OC potential.
High voltage + good cooling = the only way to check real max potential of graphics card.
Simply ASUS cards will stuck at about 1500-1550MHz max on air/water cooling. To see them shine you have to lower temps below ambient.

Best GTX980/Ti for air/water cooling are EVGA Classified. On LN2 it doesn't really matter as all it needs is high enough voltage and unlocked power limits.
In most cases what is holding cards down is cooling and power limit. If you don't know how to unlock it right you won't overclock it high. Since every card is slightly different then you can't simply use other users BIOS but you have to test it on your own card.

 

[EarthDog]

Sorry.. I have to ask Bart... does the Gigabyte 980Ti line also average between 1500/1550 or is it better than ASUS cards? If better or worse, is the amount worth getting a different card for the average air cooling user? Abnd my follow up.. what about the other brands listed? Are they better than ASUS for average overclocks or, for all intents and purposes, do all brands generally fall around that range (talking about better than reference cards here note).

I am just trying to figure out if it is worth it to 'shun' ASUS for having lower average overclocks than the rest (how this all got started).

 

[Woomack]

ASUS has higher possible voltage on special unlocked BIOS but it has lower OC potential on stock BIOS and stock voltages. You have to set higher voltage on ambient temps to set ASUS as high as some other brands. On the other hand other brands will usually hit OCP/OVP wall which you won't pass without hard mods while ASUS will run at higher voltage. Here is one "but" as higher voltage = higher temps so to use this potential you have to use better cooling.

The only exception is EVGA Classified which cost much more but usually has cherry picked chips and additional unlocks but you pay for that much more. However the difference is mainly on ambient cooling as Strix is as good on LN2 ( if not better in average best results in rankings ).
In any other case there is no clear winner. All depends for what you want to use this card. If for games then it really doesn't matter if you set 50MHz higher or lower clock as it's like 3% performance difference ...

Other thing is that no matter if it's Strix or Classified, in all world records all these cards are additionally hard modded so they're never the same as you can buy in retail store.

 

[Kenrou]

ASUS Strix are good cards but because of their design you have to set voltage higher ( and I mean much higher ) than on other brands to pass some clock ( usually 1500+MHz ).

So as they are at stock BIOS restricted to 1.218v after 63c (unless you get a golden chip) they will generally/in average overclock less then the other brands correct ?

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ASUS has higher possible voltage on special unlocked BIOS but it has lower OC potential on stock BIOS and stock voltages. You have to set higher voltage on ambient temps to set ASUS as high as some other brands. On the other hand other brands will usually hit OCP/OVP wall which you won't pass without hard mods while ASUS will run at higher voltage. Here is one "but" as higher voltage = higher temps so to use this potential you have to use better cooling.

Thank you very much for proving my point, this solves our thread. You wouldn't happen to have a copy of said Special BIOS or a way to modify mine would you ?

 

[EarthDog]

That is what Dino found as well in his reviews here Woomack.. The Strix needed a higher voltage to reach the same max clocks as the Classified, but the classi tends to bang off the limit, even though its set a bit higher. So in the end it seems like its 6 of one, half dozen of the other as far as overclocking potential of these higher end model of 980ti's for the average overclocker and gamer using ambient cooling. There would be no need to shun ASUS.

Thank you for setting things straight(er)!

You have to set higher voltage on ambient temps to set ASUS as high as some other brands. On the other hand other brands will usually hit OCP/OVP wall which you won't pass without hard mods while ASUS will run at higher voltage.

Are we sure we understand what this means? I see how you would believe it shores up your point, however, the underlined portion, to me, reads that other cards hit the limit with lower voltage (and reading between the lines yields that they are mostly the same and no reason to shun ASUS cards for the average user). Its two different ways to reach the same result.

 

[Kenrou]

ASUS has higher possible voltage on special unlocked BIOS but it has lower OC potential on stock BIOS and stock voltages.

How many times have you seen me type something akin to this in this thread ?

Think logically, it someone gives you a product and tells you "this will be slower at roughly the same price" would you pick it ? what would be the point ? We buy what other people tell us is better, and if the majority (not a couple reviews, the majority of people that bought it and used it) tells us its slower for any reason you will not buy it, you will go for another brand.

If ASUS told us from the start that this board would be crappier at stock no one would buy it but if they told us that it would be better if you mod it then everyone would get it, human condition no ? Hence why you don't stick only to reviews, go to the forums like i said and search how many people are happy/unhappy with the product. I didn't do it and now i am paying for it, but at least i am warning other people that the same thing will most likely happen to them.

 

[Woomack]

So as they are at stock BIOS restricted to 1.218v after 63c (unless you get a golden chip) they will generally/in average overclock less then the other brands correct ?
...
Thank you very much for proving my point, this solves our thread. You wouldn't happen to have a copy of said Special BIOS or a way to modify mine would you ?

All cards have ~1.21V stock 3D and up to 1.27V 3D boost which you can manually set ( that's why there is usually +50mV or something near ).

Here you have info how to modify your card. It's not only BIOS and I'm not recommending to do that, especially if you won't run it on sub 0 temps -> http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3770

Back to the cards, if you won't use modded BIOS ( and I mean made it right ) then all popular brands will stuck at about 1500MHz regardless if it's ASUS, EVGA, Gigabyte or anything else. To run higher all need mods. Without good BIOS or additional mods all will throttle above some temp and power limit.
Overclocking potential is usually limited by manufacturers because of already mentioned agreement with nvidia.

 

[EarthDog]

Back to the cards, if you won't use modded BIOS ( and I mean made it right ) then all popular brands will stuck at about 1500MHz regardless if it's ASUS, EVGA, Gigabyte or anything else. To run higher all need mods. Without good BIOS or additional mods all will throttle above some temp and power limit.
Overclocking potential is usually limited by manufacturers because of already mentioned agreement with nvidia.

Out thanks.... qft!

 

[Kenrou]

Back to the cards, if you won't use modded BIOS ( and I mean made it right ) then all popular brands will stuck at about 1500MHz regardless if it's ASUS, EVGA, Gigabyte or anything else. To run higher all need mods. Without good BIOS or additional mods all will throttle above some temp and power limit.
Overclocking potential is usually limited by manufacturers because of already mentioned agreement with nvidia.

Then why do you see so many EX: G1 users running 1530mhz+ compared to so few Strix at stock ? as i said before, its too many coincidences to be a coincidence. This also happened with the 970 series, the G1 was massively superior, is it only because of better cooling of the VRMS/mem ? they don't have that excuse with the 980 Ti.

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Here you have info how to modify your card. It's not only BIOS and I'm not recommending to do that, especially if you won't run it on sub 0 temps -> http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3770

Only difference from this to my modded is the power tab max 450000 to 990000 and very slight higher boost table ? Voltage sliders still locked at 1.275v

 

[EarthDog]

Then why do you see so many EX: G1 users running 1530mhz+ compared to so few Strix at stock ? as i said before, its too many coincidences to be a coincidence

Confirmation bias as a wise man (not me!)once said.

 

[Kenrou]

The same wise man also told you to go search for yourself, i was asking Woomack.

 

[Woomack]

I don't know if you understand what I said.
ASUS requires higher voltage to overclock above some point ( usually 1500+MHz ) but if you feed it right it will pass 2000MHz+ on good cooling.
Most other brands like Gigabyte won't pass some clock regardless how high voltage you set. They will simply throttle or shut down because of used additional protection or simply weaker design.
So again, ASUS has great design and really strong power section comparing to most other brands but to see that advantage you have to use good cooling and additional tools like unlocked BIOS. Most other brands are not providing additional software or BIOS.

Manufacturers are designing cards for gaming. For stable work at already higher than standard clocks so I can't see anything wrong in all these cards. I don't know about what you want to warn other users ... that they won't make world records on ambient temps ? Overclocking is never guaranteed.

If user don't know how to overclock something then will blame hardware. Really most "overclockers" don't know how to overclock their hardware but they still give advices on the forums and others are repeating the same mistakes. Great example is OCN where you can find 500 page threads full of BS. When I was modding BIOSes for GTX970 then I've seen too much of that and most of these "overclockers" were sure that they make it right.