• Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!

Sub Zero Cooling - Layered Pelters

Overclockers is supported by our readers. When you click a link to make a purchase, we may earn a commission. Learn More.

Treker

Old School Senior
Joined
Dec 21, 2000
Location
Houston
I was dreaming up the specs for my new rig (saving and making plans for it), and I was wondering if it would be possible to have a second power suply, 2 - 118 watt Peltiers layered on top of eachother, and a water block on top of that yet, then a heat sink on top of that !

Sounds really fair out right? .. I hope to find a spray sealing agent to spray all over the mobo and hench rule out all possiblities of condensation, I want to get some serious sub zero temps with this baby maybe -30* C, hopping to get the P4T board with a 1.5 ghz chip and clock the sucker past 2 ghz, is this just a "pipe" dream or a possiblity?

I think it sounds pretty kewl to me... :)

Let me know what you think before I screw something up, hehe.

Laters,

Treker
-Founder OmegaGamer.com
 
OP
Treker

Treker

Old School Senior
Joined
Dec 21, 2000
Location
Houston
"Layered Peltiers" even, to bad the forms dont let us fix our subjects!
 

dimmreaper

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Location
home
Stacking peltiers is dangerous. It has proven to be less effective than what people initially thought. It is very unreliable. If you were smart you would stay away from stacking peltiers. A better solution would be to use a single 180wtt 24V peltier.
 
OP
Treker

Treker

Old School Senior
Joined
Dec 21, 2000
Location
Houston
Seriously they go that high?
Awesome, what is the most watts they make peltiers at, and where can I get one?

Also would water cooling be enough to keep the peltier cool, and would I be able to reach sub 0 temps with that set up?

Thanks
 

OddOne

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
If you want to achieve that kind of cooling with Peltiers, stage them in separate intercooling sections. DO NOT STACK PELTIERS.

What one could do is use one Peltier'Water system to cool the coolant for another system that i nturn cools the Peltier coolign the chip, which is what I mean by intercooling. Such systems can pull processors to temps only achieved with vapor systems before.

oO
 
OP
Treker

Treker

Old School Senior
Joined
Dec 21, 2000
Location
Houston
Ok, could you explain that a bit more to me please? and does anyone know if P4's are even overclockable, and how high the P4T board will let it go?

Thanks a bunch, now on the funnier side...
I went to my local computer store..

Looking for a full size ATX tower case and a few 300 watt Psu's... I got the dumbest look in the world, and they never heard of ATX, just AT..... at that point I was tempted to RUN out the door...

I told them I was running a Packard bell... the Guy actually Flinched and his eye twiched a bit..

He went in back, while I was looking at the door again, and came out with a hammer, that said "In Case of Packard Bell"

Soooooooooooooooooooo....
then he tryed to sell me a weird *** board that had a celly 370 socket, sound card, modem, and video card built into the board and only 2 pci slots....

OK, next time I am going to the f*cking Mall!

Take Care all, Im going to start salvaging parts.. so far I have an old heater block (never used) from a Ford truck, next I want to find a full size ATX case with dual 300watt psu's.. anyone give me some directions to online stores? (Url's please)

My Icq is #4682297, if I am not busy I'll talk, I just got a PS2, but I cant play it!!! :(

Going to give it away to me 10,000 customer for my biz, how nice of me eh? :p

Treker

-Founder OmegaGamer.com
 

Metaxas

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2000
Jeff Evans (Dec 27, 2000 02:16 a.m.):
Stacking peltiers is dangerous. It has proven to be less effective than what people initially thought. It is very unreliable. If you were smart you would stay away from stacking peltiers. A better solution would be to use a single 180wtt 24V peltier.

Holy crap, I didn't know they came that big either. Where do you obtain such a powerful peltier?
 

dimmreaper

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Location
home
Metaxas (Dec 28, 2000 01:58 a.m.):
Jeff Evans (Dec 27, 2000 02:16 a.m.):
Stacking peltiers is dangerous. It has proven to be less effective than what people initially thought. It is very unreliable. If you were smart you would stay away from stacking peltiers. A better solution would be to use a single 180wtt 24V peltier.

Holy crap, I didn't know they came that big either. Where do you obtain such a powerful peltier?
I don't remember the URL. My buddy Proze gave me the URL a while back. I wish I still had the URL or I would be buying one now. Proze if you reading this give us the URL. I think the place was call thermal electric distributing, not too sure though.
 

dasouthernocer

Registered
Joined
Dec 25, 2000
Okay you can stack peltier's but they one on the bottom must be physically smaller and less Wattage peltier. Say a 118Watt 50mmx50mm on top of a 72Watt 40mmx40mm I tried it with two 72Watts and of course they cancelled one another out. I'm going to get a 30mmx30mm 54Watt and try it out it should work. Or you can run them side by side @ the same wattage on a slot1 cold plate and slot1 waterblock then they'll chill really nice :). Oh and layered peltiers is also called cascaded or multistage peltiers. Check it out here http://www.melcor.com/multistg.htm well hope that helps.

-dasouthernocer
 
OP
Treker

Treker

Old School Senior
Joined
Dec 21, 2000
Location
Houston
Hmm kewl Ideas!

How about an full size ATX server case, with dual 300 watt PSU's, Asus P4T mobo, 1.5ghz chip @ 2.2ghz.

Lap the chip, 118 watt peltier, then a 180 watt on it, then a water block.

Or

Lap the chip, 180 watt peltier, waterblock, 118 watt on top of water block, aplha fan on top of pelter, or vice versa.

Any ideas?

and now for some newbie questions

Explain "Potting a Peltier" so far I gather that you put something in the peltier itself to make it water tight?

and Explain "Cold Plates" , I gather they go under the peltier, and rest on the core, no?

Thanks!

Treker
-Founder OmegaGamer.com
 
OP
Treker

Treker

Old School Senior
Joined
Dec 21, 2000
Location
Houston
OddOne (Dec 27, 2000 05:00 p.m.):
If you want to achieve that kind of cooling with Peltiers, stage them in separate intercooling sections. DO NOT STACK PELTIERS.
oO

Please explain "intercooling sections"

Thanks again :)

Treker
-Founder OmegaGamer.com
 

mustangman

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Location
Indiana, the land of corn
Treker (Dec 27, 2000 05:45 p.m.):
Ok, could you explain that a bit more to me please? and does anyone know if P4's are even overclockable, and how high the P4T board will let it go?

Thanks a bunch, now on the funnier side...
I went to my local computer store..

Looking for a full size ATX tower case and a few 300 watt Psu's... I got the dumbest look in the world, and they never heard of ATX, just AT..... at that point I was tempted to RUN out the door...

I told them I was running a Packard bell... the Guy actually Flinched and his eye twiched a bit..

He went in back, while I was looking at the door again, and came out with a hammer, that said "In Case of Packard Bell"

Soooooooooooooooooooo....
then he tryed to sell me a weird *** board that had a celly 370 socket, sound card, modem, and video card built into the board and only 2 pci slots....

OK, next time I am going to the f*cking Mall!

Take Care all, Im going to start salvaging parts.. so far I have an old heater block (never used) from a Ford truck, next I want to find a full size ATX case with dual 300watt psu's.. anyone give me some directions to online stores? (Url's please)

My Icq is #4682297, if I am not busy I'll talk, I just got a PS2, but I cant play it!!! :(

Going to give it away to me 10,000 customer for my biz, how nice of me eh? :p

Treker

-Founder OmegaGamer.com

instead of trying to find a case w/dual 300watt power supplies if you already have 2 p/s of the same type (at or atx) you can wire them togetther yourself cheaper than buying a new case w/duals. check out www.overclock-watercool.com he has a diagram that shows how to do it. also he has a water chiller that is better than trying to stack peltiers. i've used this guys stuff and it works great.
 

lsdeep

New Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2000
why not liquid nitrogen cooling connected to your livingroom a/c!!!!
should work at least at wintertime dude. lite the bong again and figure it out ;o))
 
OP
Treker

Treker

Old School Senior
Joined
Dec 21, 2000
Location
Houston
mustangman (Dec 29, 2000 02:53 p.m.):

instead of trying to find a case w/dual 300watt power supplies if you already have 2 p/s of the same type (at or atx) you can wire them togetther yourself cheaper than buying a new case w/duals. check out www.overclock-watercool.com he has a diagram that shows how to do it. also he has a water chiller that is better than trying to stack peltiers. i've used this guys stuff and it works great.

I dont have much equipment here anymore, someone went through and tossed out all my salvaged drives, psu's, Hd's, Cdroms, fants, ect, really pissed me off, but by then I had a new computer, now its time to get another new computer.

This old gal isnt cutting it anymore, as soon as my computer cant handle the latests Final Fantasy game, I end up getting a new puter or upgrading the video card/mem/ processor, this one is maxed on the processor, video is a Voodoo3 3000 [email protected] , works ok, but the board is only 66 bus, and its a baby ATX case.. yeah packard bell..

Soooo, I got a big pay check comming up and I need help finding parts, and finalizing the set up, hench I am posting messages!.

Anyone know where I can get a full size ATX tower case, with dual 300 watt psu's ?

:)


Thanks, Im still working on the cooling set up, and looking foward to sugestions and ideas from you guys.

-Trek
 
OP
Treker

Treker

Old School Senior
Joined
Dec 21, 2000
Location
Houston
I pretty much got it all worked out, going to get a P4T board with 1.4 or 1.5 ghz chip combo with 128mb for 1300.

Not sure if I am going to get the 1.4 or 1.5 chip, as the 1.5 is $200 more than the 1.4, and I was wondering if I should hold back on the mem till prices drop.

But for sure I am getting the Asus P4T !

Now if I can just find a nice look'n case, with good air flow and plenty of room for my cooling system..

Any suggestions?

-Trek
 

dimmreaper

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Location
home
Treker (Dec 31, 2000 08:59 a.m.):
I pretty much got it all worked out, going to get a P4T board with 1.4 or 1.5 ghz chip combo with 128mb for 1300.

Not sure if I am going to get the 1.4 or 1.5 chip, as the 1.5 is $200 more than the 1.4, and I was wondering if I should hold back on the mem till prices drop.

But for sure I am getting the Asus P4T !

Now if I can just find a nice look'n case, with good air flow and plenty of room for my cooling system..

Any suggestions?

-Trek
Must be nice to have money . . . .
 
OP
Treker

Treker

Old School Senior
Joined
Dec 21, 2000
Location
Houston
My company is finaly getting out of the hole, and I can quit my part time job if I wanted :)

Yeah its a nice change!, but its Not easy, I generaly work 8-10 hours aday, even damn holidays, still working my arse off to have my server database complete by the new year, not sure if I'll make it or not :(

But, all in all, its worth it :)

I just want todo something for myself once in a while, an new kick *** computer ( have a p233mhz mmx, 96mb, voodoo3 3000 pci, and winmodem now..)
would be the right thing, this one is sooooo slow it takes 5 minutes to add every single product into database and 4-5 hours to upload it... arrrrgg :(

It'll be a game PC and a work PC, lets hope I can find a faster line as well, this one suckiths.

-Trek
 

RockHQ

New Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2001
Just wanted to remind you that besides it being somewhat difficult to find +160 watt (sealed) peltiers, and those being unreasonably expensive aswell, the power requirements are as far as i know always +20V. Having to sacrifice, say, 500 watts for the peltiers and their cooling alone means a very expensive PSU.
Also, it really doesn't matter whether the cpu die temp is at -30C° or at -13C° at full load overclocked, the system might be stable or just aswell might not.
Remember, having a big sandwich of heatplates, peltiers, a waterblock and an aircooled HS takes up a lot of space and is difficult to maintain, plus you could break the socket/cpu while installing the gadgets.


So consider getting the most powerful peltier you can (rated around 130watts, dTmax ~72C° and Umax of ~16V) power with a normal ATX PSU, slap on a good waterblock and an effective radiator, a high-flow pump and huge fans. It would be a lot cheaper too.

-Rock
"The amount of people looking at you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your action."

KryoTherm has some nice TECs, check out http://www.kryotherm.spb.ru/
 

andrew1165

New Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2000
First, you may buy 150+W peltier at www.tedist.com for less than $30. They are potted (but sealed :) and lapped (trust me -- you cannot do it at home). Excellent example of Russian military production.

I have Frost-0.8 (172W, 24V) myself and it works just fine. Yes, I use dedicated 350W power supply manufactured by TDK that I bought at ebay for $10 instead of $500 you'll have to pay for new one.

And don't try to make multistage (that's how it's called) TEC at home.
As it was mentioned before, there are very good reasons why it won't work well (I have formulas at hand but hope you don't want to see a lecture on physics here, do you? -- "trust me", as said one of my friends urging a customer to press same button twice).


Thank you,
Andrew