TC-4 vs RBX vs Cascade

[johan851]

Pretty good read here:
http://www.pimprig.com/modules.php?name=Sections&sop=viewarticle&artid=168&page=1

Test setup seemed to be pretty consistent...they even tried a couple different nozzles with the RBX. Your thoughts?

 

[Cathar]

 

[wardog50]

NIce review


Hey Cathar

Maybe you should start lending out your services and charge outragious consulting fees. Maybe even a piece($) of every block sold as long as its up to your standard.

Youve let everybody know you design and build the best.

Now let them know that you can help them(for a price). Or you will continue to build and design better performing blocks time and time again. That will sell better than theirs time and time again.

Good job Cathar.

Keep it up. I like to see the small guy kick butt on companies.

Wardog

 

[Cathar]

Not sure about "selling better". I think y'all would be quite surprised at how few of the Cascade blocks there are about. It's more the publicity that surrounds it that gives the impression that they're everywhere when really they're quite rare. I have a full-time job and a family, and these things are just done in my spare time and the big block makers are probably churning out in the order of 100x the blocks that I make per month. It's just a hobbyist outlet that I enjoy.

Cheers.

 

[vonkaar]

I'd hate to see Cathar spend 'more time' on keeping up with a higher demand on these products... he's the only person I've ever heard of that somehow gets 26 hours in a day. Cathar inc couldn't exist in its current form because the CFO would look at labor costs vs profit potential and probably quit his job outright. They would have to hire some cheap Malaysian labor, switch to injection molded copper, "lap" the bases for 15-seconds and compensate by offering interchangable barbs.

It's the 'handmade' quality that we buy... not the name of the block.

 

[wardog50]

I can understand that your blocks are very limited in production.

I was just kinda joking, but kinda tossing an idea too.

See you wouldnt be building the blocks anymore.
Instead you would prep a design (on paper) then submit it.
After the first say 3-5 were built you could have one or two to test and they could test the rest.
Then you could either stamp it with your approval or adjust for further revision and testing.
The actual time required from you would just be to come up with the idea then test it.
They would do all the machining and labor.

Of course the testing is probably the most time consuming portion of the block building process (I wouldnt know )
So maybe let them test them. and send one or two blocks to outside friends or facilities.

Im not trying to push anything Im just saying your the one with the golden ideas. Might as well get what you can.

I can also see how not getting that deeply involved would be worth alot too.

Either way you do a great job with your designs and you do make them available to the rest of us and thats enough for me.
Heck who could ask for more?

Late

Wardog

 

[crimedog]

I have no constructive comments about the above, but I'd like to say that I respect cathar and want/plan to have a small business sort of like his someday.

As for the review, I think there is something awfully wrong there. How do you break 60C with a quality watercooling setup?!?!?! How do you hit 58C load with a cascade??? I don't buy it

 

[Cathar]

As for the review, I think there is something awfully wrong there. How do you break 60C with a quality watercooling setup?!?!?! How do you hit 58C load with a cascade??? I don't buy it

Check out the ambient temperature. 31C. Check out the radiator - Black Ice Xtreme. The CPU's temperature is dependent upon the ambient temperature and the water temperature which is in turn affected by the radiator. The second rig doesn't say what fan was used on the radiator, but it is possible for the water to be hitting 6-10C above ambient depending on what fan was used when under load.

So basically the CPU temperatures are starting with a ~40C "spring-board" before the waterblocks even have a chance to do their thing.

Abit NF7-S's are perhaps the highest reporting nForce2 mobo's on the market as well, typically giving temperatures 5-10C higher than other manufacturers. I personally think that the NF7-S's are closer to the truth than most though, at least when not using one of the borked low-temp reading BIOSes that Abit released for them.

 

[Freeloader]

Personally, I thought that test was very unusual the way the cpu temp was compared to a temp 1 inch from the socket instead of water temp. I think that method would make more sense for air cooling, not water cooling.

 

[Korndog]

Got spanked by the Cascade

hehehehe, nice review

 

[SoulEdge]

Abit NF7-S's are perhaps the highest reporting nForce2 mobo's on the market as well, typically giving temperatures 5-10C higher than other manufacturers. I personally think that the NF7-S's are closer to the truth than most though, at least when not using one of the borked low-temp reading BIOSes that Abit released for them.

What would you estimate an 1800 dlt3c to run at in the following setup?
1800@2600, 2.06vcore in bios, about 1.97 as reported by MBM
NF7 w/ bios 14 (I think its one of the lowest reading ones)
White Water Block, BIX w/ 85cfm sunon, 1/2" tubing and Quiet one 1200 pump

With case temp at about 20C as reported by MBM, I'm getting about 30C idle and around 38C running prime 95.

 

[Cathar]

What would you estimate an 1800 dlt3c to run at in the following setup?
1800@2600, 2.06vcore in bios, about 1.97 as reported by MBM
NF7 w/ bios 14 (I think its one of the lowest reading ones)
White Water Block, BIX w/ 85cfm sunon, 1/2" tubing and Quiet one 1200 pump

With case temp at about 20C as reported by MBM, I'm getting about 30C idle and around 38C running prime 95.

Every motherboard and CPU is a little bit different (some CPU's are hotter than others at the same overclock). I wouldn't like to guess what seems right for your setup, as what might seem a little high might really be all that you could expect to see given your equipment. If you used a large dual-fan radiator you might expect to seee 3-4C knocked off your temperatures though.

Regarding the review:

I also noticed on the review that he didn't use the NF7-S sensor, but instead set up a thermal probe arrangement as per AMD's specifications for monitoring die temperature.

He also monitors CPU - ambient as well as CPU - case. CPU - ambient would be the best result to look at here as it takes into account the radiator and effectively the whole cooling loop's performance.

 

[Freeloader]

By Cathar: He also monitors CPU - ambient as well as CPU - case. CPU - ambient would be the best result to look at here as it takes into account the radiator and effectively the whole cooling loop's performance.

It would have been better if the ambient was taken 1 inch in front of the rad fan instead of 1 inch above the socket. How much difference it would have made I don't know, but I would have trusted that alot more.

 

[Cathar]

It would have been better if the ambient was taken 1 inch in front of the rad fan instead of 1 inch above the socket. How much difference it would have made I don't know, but I would have trusted that alot more.

From the review:

Delta A is the die temp minus ambient. Delta B is die temp minus case temp (one inch above the ziff socket).

Like I said above. If you don't like the case-temp (1" above socket) which is reported by Delta B, then look at the Delta A results...

Thing is, he doesn't actually say where ambient (Delta A) was monitored.

Remember, there are actually two test setups here. One with the RBX vs the TC-4, and one with the Cascade vs the RBX. The setup conditions for the Cascade vs RBX test is different to the setup conditions for the RBX/TC-4 test.

Confused me a bit too the first time I read it.

 

[Freeloader]

By Cathar: Confused me a bit too the first time I read it.

Yes, I thought ambient was still the sensor near the socket in the second test. I see now that it was most likely outside the case.