Team Elite Plus 16GB DDR3-1600 RAM Compatibility Issue/Installation Problem.

[BoundByBlood]

CPU: AMD Phenom X4 965 BE
Mobo: Asrock 770icafe
RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 8GB [2x4GB] DDR3 1600


Hello everyone. For Christmas I thought I would do a nice upgrade for my PC and double my system RAM from 8GB to 16GB. I checked compatibility and my motherboard says it can support 16GB max DDR3 PC3 12800 [1600]. I'm currently using 8GB of G.Skill in two 4GB module configuration, but I figured since PCs tend to run with two modules I went ahead and purchased two 8GB sticks of Team Elite + 1600 memory off of newegg on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291286883922?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

The ram has not worked yet. I tried clearing the CMOS before inserting the ram and while the system does power on it does not POST or boot with the new memory. The power switch on my monitor goes from blue [operational with a signal] to orange [no video signal]. Everything stays powered on, but I just can't get the RAM to work. I tried a few times without any success before putting the old memory back in and that's when I thought I would I get some feedback.

I'm unsure if my motherboard is unable to support two sticks of 8GB - it might have to be 4x4GB - but in the manual it doesn't state if it's limited to a 4 module configuration for 16GB. Then there is the issue if Team Elite Plus really isn't a compatible brand. However, PC Part Picker does state that Team Elite Plus DDR3-1600 240 pin in a 2x8GB configuration is compatible with my motherboard:

http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/memory/?compatible_with=asrock-motherboard-770icafe

I'm not sure what the problem is or why it won't work. A contributing factor may be the significant difference in timings since my current G.Skill run at 9-9-9-24 and the Team Elite Plus is 11-11-11-28. Maybe the difference in timings prevent the memory from working.

I'm not sure what to do. I want to run 16GB in my pc so I don't know if I should return this memory and get something else or try to find a way to make it work. The only thing I can think of would be to flash my bios from version P1.9 to 2.0, but the new bios is for updating CPU code and modifying Win 8 shut down behavior.

Any and all help would be highly appreciated.

 

[Mr.Scott]

Incompatibility with the 8 gig sticks. Return them.
PCpartpicker is wrong. Use the QVL list for your board.
Match the set you have now and run 4 sticks.

 

[BoundByBlood]

Thanks for the response.

The QVL list on asrock's site hasn't been updated since 2010 and doesn't list any compatible memory modules above 2GB. Hell, my current 4GB modules aren't listed and they work just fine.

I thought about trying to match the set I have now and run four modules, but that creates some problems:

[1] 1600 can only be run in the back two white dimm slots on the board.

[2] The front two blue dimm slots are covered up by my cpu cooler. I can install memory in them and sticks will fit underneath the cooler, but to do so I have to dismount the cooler first. This wouldn't be a problem except my current G.Skill ripjaws have a tall jagged edge along the top of the heat spreaders which will not fit under the cooler. Matching my current set isn't much of an option since I can't afford another cooler and more memory.

What I need is to find a 2x8GB configuration that will work. I think it has to do with the timings for the incompatibility, so I'm willing to do 1333 in a 2x8GB configuration.

 

[Mr.Scott]

I think you're going to find that the board will not support 8 gig sticks.

 

[BoundByBlood]

Well I'm going to ask the geniuses at asrock and see what that group of winners have to say. If there are compatible 8GB sticks hopefully they will tell me.

 

[BoundByBlood]

It would appear you're right Mr. Scott and the board won't support 8 gig sticks.

May I bother you with a question for one more scenario before you disappear into the vast network of forum threads? Or maybe you could pop back by and provide a valued insight.

So to get 16GB I need to run a 4x4GB configuration and the manual very specifically states that for dual channel to work that all the ram modules have to be identical when all of the dimm slots are populated. I'm currently using these 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314

As stated before the top edge profile of the ripjaws's heat spreaders won't fit underneath my cpu cooler. So, browsing around I found these other G.Skill Sniper series:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231416

They look to be practically the same as the ripjaws and I'm hard pressed to find any real difference between them other than the heat spreaders. So, what I'm wondering is considering that the memory standard, speed, and timings are the same between the Sniper and Ripjaws that if I plug two of the Snipers into the front dimm slots that if I can fool the motherboard into thinking it's the same type of ram as the ones I already have therefore allowing all four sticks to run in dual channel? I don't see why not unless there is a specific difference between the sticks I don't know about.

What do you think?

Have a great Christmas my friend.

 

[Mr.Scott]

Know going in that though the ram appears almost identical, they may have different IC's on them. I cannot tell you what chips each uses without physically looking.
IMO, yes, they will most likely work together for your application.
It may take a bump in the CPU/NB voltage to get 4 sticks going though. If you have a problem, come back here and we'll get you going.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Just a question, what do you need 16 g of ram for? Are you utilizing 80-90% of the 8g you have?

 

[BoundByBlood]

I discussed something similar to this in a thread "when will 16gb be the 'recommended' ram" so I'm pretty much going to paraphrase myself and reiterate the same points I made there.

In graphic intensive games like Far Cry 4 I am utilizing upwards of 80% of the 8 gigs of ram I have. The game's recommended specs are 8 gigs, but that's really just for the game and dividing 8 gigs between the game and then windows and background services isn't ideal for performance. Running FC4 on a Phenom II x4 965 BE, 8GB of ram, and a Radeon R9 280X 3GB on Win 7 64 bit with the latest catalyst drivers I experience infrequent video micro-stuttering on high settings. Not very high or ultra, just high settings. The micro-stuttering isn't severe, maybe a couple of milliseconds to half a second at most, and it only happens occasionally, but it happens because of the game's high resource demand. The cpu can't pre-render all of the game's huge world and since FC4 can't be cached into ram in its entirety the cpu has to reference the paging file on the hdd when the ram cache is full. The switch between caching the game in ram and then to the paging file causes micro-stuttering. This micro-stuttering only happens in next gen games like FC4 or Final Fantasy XIII-2 which tax the hell out of a system while older games, such as Syndicate or Wolfenstein, run smooth as a whistle but that's because they only demand 2-3GB of ram and can be cached entirely into the ram.

By upping to 16GB the game will be able to cache itself into ram thus eliminating the need to switch to the paging file. The increased capacity in ram won't improve framerate, but it will smooth out the framerate the 280x is capable of producing. With 16GB total I will have 8GB dedicated solely for games, 4-6GB for windows and background services and an additional 2GB leftover for whichever app needs it if necessary.

Games are becoming more of a resource hog so the micro-stuttering happening with FC4 isn't uncommon for average systems. As games evolve becoming more graphics intensive simply due to the huge game world and the tremendous amount of game assets within it, the need for better PCs is only going to rise.

It is my opinion from personal experience that most gaming rigs should be running upwards of around 12GB at this point because the need for higher amounts of ram will become more prevalent as the next gen games increase in complexity thus requiring more system resources. Pretty soon 8GB will become the norm for minimum specs and around 12GB will be the recommended by the developers, I'm trying to get ahead of the game - pun intended - before that happens.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Thanks for the explanation, only reason I mentioned it was most people blindly think that increasing the amount of Ram will increase performance. Which is not the case for most users. I just wanted to make sure that you weren't wasting money for no good reason.

What Cpu heatsink are you using? You should be able to fit something like these underneath?!

 

[BoundByBlood]

I just wanted to make sure that you weren't wasting money for no good reason.

I appreciate you looking out for me and my wallet my friend .

The cooler is the Scythe Big Shuriken low profile cooler:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2...PU_Cooler_SCBSK-2100.html?tl=g40c14s881#blank

That link is the Big Shuriken 2, I have the first revision where those spikes are on both sides of the cooler so it doesn't matter which way I turn it there are always spikes covering up the front two dimm slots closest to the cpu socket. The profile for the heat spreaders on the Ripjaws memory I have is barely just too tall to fit underneath, but the comb like top edge of the heat spreader does come into contact with the spikes when I have tried to install the cooler over the memory in the past.

Yes, the Ares will fit underneath. The trick is though when doing a 4x4GB configuration all of the ram modules have to be identical in order for dual channel to work. Since I can't fit two more sticks of Ripjaws under the cooler I'm trying to find other memory which I can fool the motherboard into thinking is the same as the ones I already have. The G.Skill Sniper DDR3 1600 is the same standard, speed, and timings as the ripjaws with a lower profile heat spreader so that might work. At least I'm hoping it does. If it doesn't work then my only other option would be two buy two more Ripjaws and get the Big Shuriken 2 that I linked since it doesn't have spikes on one side.

 

[Mr.Scott]

The trick is though when doing a 4x4GB configuration all of the ram modules have to be identical in order for dual channel to work.

What the manufacturer means by ' identical ' is that the amount of ram needs to be the same on each stick for dual channel to work. That is all.

 

[BoundByBlood]

What the manufacturer means by ' identical ' is that the amount of ram needs to be the same on each stick for dual channel to work. That is all.

Are you certain of this? Earlier you seemed kind of iffy about it, but now you seem more assured about it. You're giving me mixed signals man! J/K.

If you're positive that this is the case then I'm set.

 

[Mr.Scott]

That is all the manufacturer means, yes.
However.....WE know that voltage and timings DO make a difference when mixing and matching ram. I just didn't want you to take the manufacturers so literally. All they care about is the quantity for dual channel to work.
I stand by my recommendations in the earlier posts.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Blackheart, just because the sticks say G.Skill or Corsair for example doesn't mean they are different. They could have the same exact Ic under the heatspreader. It also applies to having two different sets of ram from the same company, example 2 different sets of G. Skill sticks with the same primary timings may have different Ic's under the heat spreader. So my point is yes you can run 2 different sets of ram and have them run in dual channel but it may take some tweaking to get them to run properly, regardless of if they come from the same company. That said if you get a set of G. Skill 9-9-9-24's like you have there is a very good chance that they will work without an issue. You may find though, that you need to give the Cpu Nb voltage a bump to run the extra ram, as putting more memory in will stress the Imc a bit more.

 

[BoundByBlood]

I just didn't want you to take the manufacturers so literally.

Well, when they put the word identical in the motherboard manual with a strong bold and italics emphasis on it, it's kinda hard for someone like me not to take them literally. My luck would be I find similar ram, plug it in, boot everything up and the dimm slots short out. I contact ASRock and after explaining the situation their attitude becomes: "We could have told you this was going to happen...didn't we say identical in the manual? You should have taken us literally biyatch "<------[that's asrock laughing not me]

But I get your point.

if you get a set of G. Skill 9-9-9-24's like you have there is a very good chance that they will work without an issue.

That's the plan. I was planning on the G.Skill Sniper DDR3 1600 with 9-9-9-24 and 1.5V just like the Ripjaws, until I noticed the top edge profile of those heat spreaders are pretty tall too...they're actually taller when looking at the specs on the g.skill website. The Ripjaws are 40mm in height and the Sniper are 42mm, so it has to be the Ares which are 33mm.

Looking at the g.skill faq they go out of their way to discourage mixing and matching different ram kits, even other G.Skill kits. So, even if the Ares and Ripjaws are practically identical in specs, they still say "no" since it can cause problems such as unable to boot or memory not able to run at rated specifications.

What bugs me is the way they phrased it. I'm quoting them here:

G.Skill says: We do not recommend mixing memory kits, regardless of brand or model. By mixing memory kits together, there may be compatibility issues such as unable to boot or unable to operate at rated specifications. Each of our memory kit are thoroughly tested to ensure compatibility within each memory kit. And because we have not tested our memory kit with your existing memory kit, we cannot guarantee compatibility when multiple kits are used..

This makes little sense to me considering when my memory kit is their memory kit. When the Ares and Ripjaws are the same speed, have the same timings, and require the same voltage, why wouldn't they test them for compatibility to see if they work together? So by their phrasing they only test Ripjaws to work with other Ripjaws and so on, but that's asinine.

What do you all think? Have either one of you successfully mixed two different memory kits together with little to no problem?

 

[Mandrake4565]

This makes little sense to me considering when my memory kit is their memory kit. When the Ares and Ripjaws are the same speed, have the same timings, and require the same voltage, why wouldn't they test them for compatibility to see if they work together? So by their phrasing they only test Ripjaws to work with other Ripjaws and so on, but that's asinine.

What do you all think? Have either one of you successfully mixed two different memory kits together with little to no problem?

Reason they say this is because each kit is usually put together with matching Ic's. As posted above, If you buy 2 different sets of memory from them, especially from different years, you may get a kit that has for example: Hynix memory Ic's in them and another with Samsung. So they both may be G. Skill Ripjaws but may also have different Ic's in them. They may also both have the same primary timings but the sub timings may be different. That said I have run 2 different sets of sticks and haven't had an issue. Though, it may take a bit of tweaking to get them to work together in harmony.

Here is a good Example:
These are Elpida Ic sticks

These are Powerchip/PSC ic sticks

 

[Mr.Scott]

I've had it go both ways mixing.
Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.
Consequently, I don't mix any more.

Buy 4 sticks and sell your other 2?

 

[BoundByBlood]

Thanks for that buddy, I needed that extra bit of reassurance since g.skill was making me apprehensive about this.

I went ahead and ordered the G.Skill Ares, so we'll see how it all works out when it arrives.

This might seem like a dumb question, but how will I know if it needs tweaking? I mean aside from the blatantly obvious such as system instability or bad readings in CPU-Z that is...are there other indications that it still might need tweaking because of the added stress on the Imc even though everything is operational? What would be a good starting bump in the cpu-nb voltage? Would you say .05? If you don't mind give an example of some of the tweaking you had to do when you mixed two different sets assuming you had to tweak.

I really do appreciate all the help from the both of you btw.

 

[BoundByBlood]

Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. Consequently, I don't mix any more.

NOW you tell me this after I already purchased the Ares. .

It's all good lol.

Buy 4 sticks and sell your other 2?

If only I could afford it. Mixing at this point is about the only option within my budget other than per say buying another pair of Ripjaws and modifying the top edge of the spreaders or removing them altogether.

That said I have run 2 different sets of sticks and haven't had an issue.

Usually when I take big risks - especially in terms of computers - it more than likely blows up in my face. If I didn't have bad luck I would have no luck at all. Yet, despite all this with the positive affirmation you gave me I was reluctantly hopeful that this one thing could actually work for me. That is until Mr. Scott beamed down, rained on my parade, and then beamed back up into the great beyond *shakes fist angrily at the sky*.

Now I'm apprehensive again thanks to his pessimism and I'm becoming more unwilling by the minute to try since the last thing I need is for the bear to get me and have a dead in the water PC. It's not too late to cancel my order for the Ares so I need to come to a decision soon...

Btw Mr. Scott, I'm just playing dude so don't take anything I say to heart. Even if you did rain on my parade