The EU Just Made A Decision That Could Alter The Internet Forever

[Robert17]

Wow, just Wow. 1) That Socialists took on the mantle of ancient Greeks militarism and racial purity isn't in reverse order. 2) exactly 3) no, NN was throttling everyone equally, socialism at it's finest 4) no one should think that pooping on a dance floor should be what everyone else should do 5) where in the world did you get the "1kb/s" stat? I got more than that from a 900 baud modem in 1989 6) so, you're going to buy me some delicious 2560x1440? Which has never been a regulation, by the way.

 

[OC-NightHawk]

1) the idea of fascism came from the ancient Greeks/Spartans with its emphasis on militarism and racial purity - not socialism
2) probably same reason why the US didn't ask the EU about Net Neutrality - the other side wouldn't listen let alone talk about it - doesn't make my comment any less true
3) Net Neutrality was stopping ISP's from controlling content/speed - it was GIVING you freedom, not taking it away
4) List of countries that adhered to Net Neutrality (wasn't just the US that signed off on it) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_by_country
5) and whoever doesn't pay has access throttled to 1kb/s if the ISP say's so, making it virtually inaccessible by today's standards.
6) This is why the regulations should have stayed as "2650x1440 for all" and not just to whoever can pay for it

Your number 6 sounds a lot like some sort of ism. I don't agree with this at all and will fight tooth and nail against it. Who do you think will pay for everyone's 1440P gaming system? Why should I have to help buy yours? I worked my butt off to go to school, get my job, keep my job, get promoted so that I could be earning half decent pay above the 6 figure mark. Nice things are not awarded for participation and showing up.

 

[Kenrou]

Your number 6 sounds a lot like some sort of ism. I don't agree with this at all and will fight tooth and nail against it. Who do you think will pay for everyone's 1440P gaming system? Why should I have to help buy yours? I worked my butt off to go to school, get my job, keep my job, get promoted so that I could be earning half decent pay above the 6 figure mark. Nice things are not awarded for participation and showing up.

You could argue the same about freedom - why should some be free while other slaves, why should 1% have all 95% of the money and the rest meh or poverty ? human nature. Companies make enough money as it it to maintain the gear and keep workers happy, they don't need to become billionaires in the process - that's a perk, that's being greedy, no one really needs that amount of money. As i said above, the net was designed to be an open/free source of information. I wholeheartedly agree that SOME restrictions should be put in place, simply not the way you're doing it now. Every company will get greedy and start throttling content from the other providers - you know this is true, history teaches us this.

You SHOULD debate, i completely agree that these things should be talked about and discussed - which brings me to my main point - no country should unilaterally decide they know what is best for everyone else - because they DON'T know.

 

[Robert17]

You could argue the same about freedom - why should some be free while other slaves, why should 1% have all 95% of the money and the rest meh or poverty ? human nature. The Americas were the first nineteen countries in the world to abolish slavery, and there was an horrific war in the USA to make it happen, other countries, I'm looking at the map and there are many, may need the same as our efforts to diplomatically spread freedom and equality don't ring their bells; that 1% of the population takes the risks or has the mega brain power to innovate is, correctly, human nature. Companies make enough money as it it to maintain the gear and keep workers happy, they don't need to become billionaires in the process says who?- that's a perk, that's being greedy or successful, no one really needs that amount of money I do, in order to buy the newer NVidia cards. As i said above, the net was designed to be an open/free source of information the net is a technical acheivement, not a social construct. I wholeheartedly agree that SOME restrictions should be put in place, simply not the way you're doing it now. Every company will get greedy and start throttling content from the other providers - you know this is true, history teaches us this. No argument here. But when the next big thing comes along, the throttlers will change their tune, think Musk's 4400 satellites

You SHOULD debate, i completely agree that these things should be talked about and discussed - which brings me to my main point - no country should unilaterally decide they know what is best for everyone else - because they DON'T know. Well, except maybe the part about freedom and equality

 

[OC-NightHawk]

You could argue the same about freedom - why should some be free while other slaves, why should 1% have all 95% of the money and the rest meh or poverty ? human nature. Companies make enough money as it it to maintain the gear and keep workers happy, they don't need to become billionaires in the process - that's a perk, that's being greedy, no one really needs that amount of money. As i said above, the net was designed to be an open/free source of information. I wholeheartedly agree that SOME restrictions should be put in place, simply not the way you're doing it now. Every company will get greedy and start throttling content from the other providers - you know this is true, history teaches us this.

You SHOULD debate, i completely agree that these things should be talked about and discussed - which brings me to my main point - no country should unilaterally decide they know what is best for everyone else - because they DON'T know.

One thing to keep in mind I'm not saying greed is a bad thing in this context where excelling in a task earns more comfort rather then being born into nobility. It's true the 1% can have whatever they want and not have to worry for anything. Except being kidnapped, ransomed, no privacy.

I'd like to have more money sure. No I'm not willing to rob someone (that is what redistribution of wealth is) in the process to do so for no crime other then being born into money.

Instead I'm happy to show my value and live comfortably. We can't all be the top alphas and a country led by a bunch of betas that killed their alpha doesn't survive long.

I believe in people all getting the same opportunity to excel. If they can't excel sorry try again and if they do here is your BMW, nice house, 401K and gaming computer. Keep it up and you can keep these. This drives progress and makes the nation stronger.

Getting back on the topic of the internet that is an American invention. That gives us the right. It wasn't made to bring enlightenment to the world. It was created so that in a time of war our communications literally can't be cut. Business opportunity and money are the reason the common man all over the world has access to it at all. Do you think a Communist country would have shared it with their people let alone foreign nationals? We all know the socialists would but then again they would also tax by the hyper link and probably put a fee for every email and bleed everyone dry. You'd probably need a license to even view the web as controlling as socialist state are.

You want to see what redistribution of wealth reaps? Venezuela… enough said.

 

[Kenrou]

@Robert17

1) yes by all means lets forget the dozens (if not hundreds) of countries that existed before the US that never used slavery in the 1st place - the 1% manipulates/bribes/pays what is needed to stay at the 1%, that is not "smart", its simply corrupt.
2) says ALMOST everyone who is not a billionaire ? how much of that money is simply on hold or sitting in a bank when it could be used for something actually important ?
3) successful yes, but still greedy
4) we don't need billions, we need a few thousands every month (i wouldn't say no to a little bit more money in the bank but i don't need billions)
5) how does that invalidate in any way what i said ?
6) IF that ever happens...
7) which also existed in some for or other in the vast majority of other countries all around the globe - you speak of freedom and equality but agree with those who want to stifle knowledge for everyone (net neutrality abolished) - what gives ?

One thing to keep in mind I'm not saying greed is a bad thing in this context where excelling in a task earns more comfort rather then being born into nobility. It's true the 1% can have whatever they want and not have to worry for anything. Except being kidnapped, ransomed, no privacy.

I'd like to have more money sure. No I'm not willing to rob someone (that is what redistribution of wealth is) in the process to do so for no crime other then being born into money.

Instead I'm happy to show my value and live comfortably. We can't all be the top alphas and a country led by a bunch of betas that killed their alpha doesn't survive long.

I believe in people all getting the same opportunity to excel. If they can't excel sorry try again and if they do here is your BMW, nice house, 401K and gaming computer. Keep it up and you can keep these. This drives progress and makes the nation stronger.

Getting back on the topic of the internet that is an American invention. That gives us the right. It wasn't made to bring enlightenment to the world. It was created so that in a time of war our communications literally can't be cut. Business opportunity and money are the reason the common man all over the world has access to it at all. Do you think a Communist country would have shared it with their people let alone foreign nationals? We all know the socialists would but then again they would also tax by the hyper link and probably put a fee for every email and bleed everyone dry. You'd probably need a license to even view the web as controlling as socialist state are.

"The Internet was the work of dozens of pioneering scientists, programmers and engineers who each developed new features and technologies that eventually merged to become the “information superhighway” we know today. Long before the technology existed to actually build the Internet, many scientists had already anticipated the existence of worldwide networks of information. Nikola Tesla toyed with the idea of a “world wireless system” in the early 1900s, and visionary thinkers like Paul Otlet and Vannevar Bush conceived of mechanized, searchable storage systems of books and media in the 1930s and 1940s. Still, the first practical schematics for the Internet would not arrive until the early 1960s, when MIT’s J.C.R. Licklider popularized the idea of an “Intergalactic Network” of computers. Shortly thereafter, computer scientists developed the concept of “packet switching,” a method for effectively transmitting electronic data that would later become one of the major building blocks of the Internet."

It had a military startup simply because they were the only ones that had the money to make the idea come true - and ofc used it for military purposes instead of it's intended idea - knowledge repository. Nikola Tesla was Serbian, Paul Otlet was French and Vannevar Bush was American and i assume those are just a few examples.

You keep mentioning Communist/Socialist countries but for example before 2017 Russia only blocked the essential from the Internet - and it mostly involved criminal intent. Look it up. China is another matter ofc, but even there we don't know 100% what is blocked and what is not or do we ? What about Korea and other countries, what goes on there ?

You want to see what redistribution of wealth reaps? Venezuela… enough said.

As far as i read it was a rich-ish country until something happened to their oil reserves in 2014 and the money stopped coming in ? if the government did nothing to help then it was corrupt ?

 

[Robert17]

Loving this discussion. Interesting how our ideas aren’t constrained by the lack of Net Neutrality.


1) dozens if not hundreds of countries never abolished slavery until after the countries of the western hemisphere did. They allowed it, sometimes by other names such as indentured servitude, serfs, conscripts, or spoils of war. But they didn’t abolish it. In fact, it is still practiced in many countries in the middle east and Africa today.
2) billions of dollars owned by individuals are invested in new technologies or services that open up the freedoms of people to work as they are able, loan to borrowers to purchase big ticket items such as machinery or other property, or spend as they choose. They aren’t dumb clucks just sitting on a pile of cash laughing.
3) It’s a fair argument that some people are greedy. I’ve seen it in people with little or nothing. But to apply it to anyone with more than you is blatantly self-serving.
4) you apparently haven’t attempted to make more than you need in order to feed others.
5)?
6) Innovation hasn’t stopped. There’s always the next big thing even if it’s a frisbee.
7) Information isn’t stifled by the lack of net neutrality. See your last post. Nobody stopped it.


Please don’t copy and paste Wikipedia.


China has blocked web access, or at least stifled the ‘unapproved’ web sites, to their citizens since the web came into being. And Google is actively working with them today in order to help them in these endeavors. Russia was actually much more open about it. And forget North Korea and Cuba.


As to the Venezuela reference, the oil reserves are still there, nothing happened to them except that the previous socialist dictators nationalized all major industries in that country, including food store chains and markets, and throttled any ability of the investors that did the construction of the pumps, refineries, shipping ports, and associated industries,from making Any profit. The players in that field were accused of every malfeasance imaginable in order to excuse the socialist dictators of their lust for power and money, and the players all left under threat of arrest, leaving their confiscated property behind.That Chavez’s daughter is living off billions of Venezuela’s confiscated wealth in Switzerland seems to have escaped your notice.

 

[Kenrou]

Loving this discussion. Interesting how our ideas aren’t constrained by the lack of Net Neutrality.

1) dozens if not hundreds of countries never abolished slavery until after the countries of the western hemisphere did. They allowed it, sometimes by other names such as indentured servitude, serfs, conscripts, or spoils of war. But they didn’t abolish it. In fact, it is still practiced in many countries in the middle east and Africa today.
2) billions of dollars owned by individuals are invested in new technologies or services that open up the freedoms of people to work as they are able, loan to borrowers to purchase big ticket items such as machinery or other property, or spend as they choose. They aren’t dumb clucks just sitting on a pile of cash laughing.
3) It’s a fair argument that some people are greedy. I’ve seen it in people with little or nothing. But to apply it to anyone with more than you is blatantly self-serving.
4) you apparently haven’t attempted to make more than you need in order to feed others.
5)?
6) Innovation hasn’t stopped. There’s always the next big thing even if it’s a frisbee.
7) Information isn’t stifled by the lack of net neutrality. See your last post. Nobody stopped it.

Please don’t copy and paste Wikipedia.

China has blocked web access, or at least stifled the ‘unapproved’ web sites, to their citizens since the web came into being. And Google is actively working with them today in order to help them in these endeavors. Russia was actually much more open about it. And forget North Korea and Cuba.

Discussion is the lifeblood of knowledge (or in some cases flat-earthers)

1) still does not invalidate what i said - America was not the 1st country to abolish slavery, it was simply the most known about. Going by the history book it was Denmark 1792, then the UK 1807, then America 1808
2) some, definitely not all or even the main percentage - having money tied up in enterprises does not necessarily provide others with jobs or makes headway in sciences. If you dig a little deeper most of the money will be tied up in dozens of properties/luxuries/other countries to avoid taxes
3) In people with little or nothing would be desperation not greediness ?
4) I'm a happily married father of 4, you might want to rephrase that statement
5) how does the net being a social construct invalidate anything i said ? or i misunderstood a statement for a question ?
6) very true (and Frisbee's are very cool)
7) "...and whoever doesn't pay has access throttled to 1kb/s if the ISP say's so, making it virtually inaccessible..." - stifled

If the link i copied and pasted is factually correct why would i not post it ? and if you're referring to the line of text about who invented the net it's from your very own American History Channel website

Why forget about Korea ? I would actually like to know if it's controlled or not like China.

As to the Venezuela reference, the oil reserves are still there, nothing happened to them except that the previous socialist dictators nationalized all major industries in that country, including food store chains and markets, and throttled any ability of the investors that did the construction of the pumps, refineries, shipping ports, and associated industries,from making Any profit. The players in that field were accused of every malfeasance imaginable in order to excuse the socialist dictators of their lust for power and money, and the players all left under threat of arrest, leaving their confiscated property behind.That Chavez’s daughter is living off billions of Venezuela’s confiscated wealth in Switzerland seems to have escaped your notice.

BBC says it was drop of fuel price but i have read other links that say that was only the tip of the iceberg - must investigate further - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-36319877

 

[Mr.Scott]

Why forget about Korea ? I would actually like to know if it's controlled or not like China.

N. Korea internet is not available to average citizens and is limited in the universitys and strictly monitored by the government.
So yes, highly controlled.

 

[knoober]

I've run across this a few times while doing casual reading : the N. Korea custom Linux distro is called "Red Star OS". While I'm not curious enough to try it, I have read that it is available to be downloaded and used. It's apparently pretty slim/gutted and highly monitored.

 

[Kenrou]

is that the only OS available ? i would assume people who have internet would download a custom build of Windows for the games/music/etc alone ?

 

[Alaric]

Wikipedia is generally regarded as an invalid source for factual content. The "internet" was invented/created in the US, at Stanford University. We should have retained dominion over it because it belonged to us, much like the Panama Canal.

As for socialism, seriously? How is that nonsense even taken seriously? Give 100 people in a closed society a million dollars each, and check on them in a year. You'll find a handful of multi millionaires, a larger group of moderately wealthy/middle class, and the rest of them will be poor. There will inevitably be a group of newly wealthy that think they're now too rich to clean toilets, so they'll patronize the toilet cleaning companies started by the few motivated and smarter recipients of the million, and the wealth will flow that way. You can't make everyone financially equal in a free society, and you can't artificially make everyone wealthier. You can only make everyone equally poor until the revolution. Want an example of perfect socialism/communism? Prison. Everyone is equal there, at least officially. Amongst the population of inmates there will still be a hierarchy of privileged, "wealthy" entrepreneurs who provide booze, drugs, cigarettes, etc.. You can't take rewards for hard work and innovation away from humans. It doesn't work, it never has, and it never will.

It astounds me that adults are roaming the Earth still carrying around the "everyone should have six crayons" crap from preschool. Under that system the populace doesn't have rights, they have permissions. Screw that.

 

[Kenrou]

As i said above, only thing I got from Wiki (fact checked with governemnt website) was the link I posted, rest was from history books and history channel documentaries so again, everything checks out [emoji849]

As for socialism I couldn't give a toss regardless, every form of government so far has proven to be corrupt beyond repair.

"Give 100 people in a closed society a million dollars each, and check on them in a year. You'll find a handful of multi millionaires, a larger group of moderately wealthy/middle class, and the rest of them will be poor. There will inevitably be a group of newly wealthy that think they're now too rich to clean toilets, so they'll patronize the toilet cleaning companies started by the few motivated and smarter recipients of the million, and the wealth will flow that way."

This is human nature 101, it will happen in every country regardless of government (btw you realize you just described what's going on in the US).

Before we get this thread shutdown because of this politics nonsense, can we please move this to PM and get back on topic ?