- Joined
- May 28, 2002
- Location
- Sector 7G
After looking @ Silverprops site, That "Copycat" looks like the same shape as the other Cyclones, only different internels. 
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The "White Water" Micro Channel Copycats Begin.
- Thread starter nikhsub1
- Start date
You guys are living in a vacuum. I don't want to detract from
Cathar's block, it's my kind of block. But this idea was NOT invented
in the PC WB cooling community. The idea is older than anyone
posting to this forum.
You guys need to hang out more with scientists and engineers.
Yea, I know it looks like a ripoff, but anyone who can read
and understand the research papers on thermal transfer would
end up with designs that look a lot like this. Cathar didn't come up
with his design overnight. He did his homework!!
Nobody should get sick. Did people get sick when AMD copied the
ideas for the Pentium?
Cathar's block, it's my kind of block. But this idea was NOT invented
in the PC WB cooling community. The idea is older than anyone
posting to this forum.
You guys need to hang out more with scientists and engineers.
Yea, I know it looks like a ripoff, but anyone who can read
and understand the research papers on thermal transfer would
end up with designs that look a lot like this. Cathar didn't come up
with his design overnight. He did his homework!!
Nobody should get sick. Did people get sick when AMD copied the
ideas for the Pentium?
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2002
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
It's true.
The basic ideas alone are very old, meaning 60's, 70's and 80's stuff.
I worked hard to arrive at a design that mixes machining limitations, base-plate thickness, flow paths, jet impingement, fin width, and heat flow paths into a coherent design that would significantly raise the bar. While the basic ideas are old, the actual hybrid mix, and dimensions for application to modern CPU's is unique to my own research.
I wanted to prove to myself that water-block design had not reached a peak.
Unfortunately I stated the design in public before I looked into a patents, although this was never really my initial intention to form a business out it.
For people who don't wish to read the thread at OCAU, early on I had approached Silverprop (we both live in the same city) for advice on machining options. At the time, Silverprop seemed to be taking a different path for their next series of blocks, and then this block pops out, although I knew for some time it was coming, but had always thought it would be their "next generation" of blocks.
The Silverprop block is not optimised in any fashion whatsoever from what I can see. In fact, it seems to basically be a rushed design to get their version "out there", and hold ground until they figure out how to do it properly.
My relationship with Silverprop was once very close. I "promoted" SP far and wide because I believed that the Cyclone 5 was indeed a good product. The current Cyclone 5's primary base thickness is a result of my research and testing. The "standard" base was originally much thicker.
I feel used, but there's no ethics in business I guess. For all of us, our enthusiastic energy is always open for use by those who hunt the forums for ideas.
The basic ideas alone are very old, meaning 60's, 70's and 80's stuff.
I worked hard to arrive at a design that mixes machining limitations, base-plate thickness, flow paths, jet impingement, fin width, and heat flow paths into a coherent design that would significantly raise the bar. While the basic ideas are old, the actual hybrid mix, and dimensions for application to modern CPU's is unique to my own research.
I wanted to prove to myself that water-block design had not reached a peak.
Unfortunately I stated the design in public before I looked into a patents, although this was never really my initial intention to form a business out it.
For people who don't wish to read the thread at OCAU, early on I had approached Silverprop (we both live in the same city) for advice on machining options. At the time, Silverprop seemed to be taking a different path for their next series of blocks, and then this block pops out, although I knew for some time it was coming, but had always thought it would be their "next generation" of blocks.
The Silverprop block is not optimised in any fashion whatsoever from what I can see. In fact, it seems to basically be a rushed design to get their version "out there", and hold ground until they figure out how to do it properly.
My relationship with Silverprop was once very close. I "promoted" SP far and wide because I believed that the Cyclone 5 was indeed a good product. The current Cyclone 5's primary base thickness is a result of my research and testing. The "standard" base was originally much thicker.
I feel used, but there's no ethics in business I guess. For all of us, our enthusiastic energy is always open for use by those who hunt the forums for ideas.
Cathar said:
I know that feeling. After Aesik and I made a number of posts
about the added benefits of sand blasting surfaces for increased
thermal transfer, a very few short months later the Maze3
came out with blasted surfaces. I know they read the forums
in stealth mode. I'm not accusing anyone. All this stuff is in
the literature if one cares to dig it out. But the timing sure
looked bad.
Cathar, your block and a slightly differnt design with two barbs
could be a commercial success if you went for it.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2002
- Location
- U.P. Michigan
Tecumseh said:You guys are living in a vacuum. I don't want to detract from
Cathar's block, it's my kind of block. But this idea was NOT invented
in the PC WB cooling community. The idea is older than anyone
posting to this forum.
You guys need to hang out more with scientists and engineers.
Yea, I know it looks like a ripoff, but anyone who can read
and understand the research papers on thermal transfer would
end up with designs that look a lot like this. Cathar didn't come up
with his design overnight. He did his homework!!
Nobody should get sick. Did people get sick when AMD copied the
ideas for the Pentium?
That is right, he did his homework and they did none at all. They did not follow a path to the same place through hard work, just copied someone elses after it was shown to be a good combination. If anyone calls that good ethics well, go do some business with them.
Do not try to compare AMD and Intel, AMD bought rights from Intel, big difference.
- Joined
- May 28, 2002
- Location
- Sector 7G
But still, even if it is a copy, its a horribly desgined and skewed copy.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2002
- Location
- U.P. Michigan
And we're on an ethics kick around here lately (see sig below)
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2002
- Location
- Paris, Texas
What are the different opinoins on this subject. Please post your opinion.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2002
- Location
- Winnipeg
I think Cathar should take advantage of silverprops work, and use their manufacturing method for producing the fins. Its obvious that silverprops method is alot faster than milling. If Cathar wants to hold on to the market he created, he needs to be aggressive and start mass producing his block at a more cost effective price.
Frodo Baggins
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2001
- Location
- City of Dreaming Spires
*shrug*, don't worry and concern yourself with what you can't control. Cathaar should be glad that he was one of the first that thought of using this for private desktop comp. water cooling.
there's nothing he can do much, cept be happy he alrdy has one and prolly his block will outperform the ones manufactored
i doubt hte guy that first came up with the spiral design or the esin of wbs we use now is really going crazy thinking the whole world is copying him
there's nothing he can do much, cept be happy he alrdy has one and prolly his block will outperform the ones manufactored
i doubt hte guy that first came up with the spiral design or the esin of wbs we use now is really going crazy thinking the whole world is copying him
Cathar can't really control it now, but I'm sure he takes satisfaction into knowing he was almost definately the first to research this design to the depth that he did.
Also, I know many consumers are looking down on SP now and can also still vote with there purchasing power on who they think is right.
Of course SP has mass producing capability and can afford (in the future) to off this block at a lower cost (I would imagine)
However Cathar has stated before that he never intended to make this out to be a business, so hopefully he just gets his time's worth in cash and can be satisfied.
besides...I highly doubt that block will perform as well as cathar's anyhow...
Also, I know many consumers are looking down on SP now and can also still vote with there purchasing power on who they think is right.
Of course SP has mass producing capability and can afford (in the future) to off this block at a lower cost (I would imagine)
However Cathar has stated before that he never intended to make this out to be a business, so hopefully he just gets his time's worth in cash and can be satisfied.
besides...I highly doubt that block will perform as well as cathar's anyhow...
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2002
- Location
- Rathdrum ID
Well most of us waterblock gearheads are members of these forums and I've seen that Cathar has posted his block on most. I wouldn't worry about silverprop taking away any of your thunder Cathar. We all know who the originator is
OP
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2001
- Location
- Los Angeles
- Thread Starter
- #37
AMEN to that! Cathar has reason to be flattered but, the way the situation has panned out is not pretty.FRAGN'STIEN said:Well most of us waterblock gearheads are members of these forums and I've seen that Cathar has posted his block on most. I wouldn't worry about silverprop taking away any of your thunder Cathar. We all know who the originator is
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2002
- Location
- Hampton Roads. VA
Man Cathar, I'm sorry to see this. I knew you worked close with Silverprop by all testing of the Cyclone bases you did. I followed those threads in OCAU very close and even asked a couple questions about it. I almost bought one. I'm very happy I didn't buy it now though. You worked on this block a long time. It would take all night to read the post in this forum, OCAU's forum and Procooling's forum. This design is YOURS, no matter what anyone says.
I can tell you are pretty dissapointed by your post in OCAU forums, but you are also a bigger man then Jeremy seems to be. Everywhere I see this block talked about, I'll be sure to spam "CATHAR WW RIP-OFF" all over the place. I'm pretty sure many other people will do the same for you.
And to think of all the free press you gave them in OCAU forums when you where testing their blocks. Geeze. I need to go up chuck.
I can tell you are pretty dissapointed by your post in OCAU forums, but you are also a bigger man then Jeremy seems to be. Everywhere I see this block talked about, I'll be sure to spam "CATHAR WW RIP-OFF" all over the place. I'm pretty sure many other people will do the same for you.
And to think of all the free press you gave them in OCAU forums when you where testing their blocks. Geeze. I need to go up chuck.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2002
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
Cheers guys.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2001
- Location
- WILDCAT COUNTRY
Yes this is a shame, but you knew it was going to happen. Even if cathar had solder the three components together, someone would have taken the block apart and would have gotten the info. Now all you can do is show your support. By doing so this will send a very strong message to the thief’s.
I bet it does not end with SilverProp.
I bet it does not end with SilverProp.
