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ThermoEngine V60-4210

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Gibbo

Registered
Joined
Feb 25, 2001
What are your thoughts on the latest cooler out, the ThermoEngine V60-4210.

I have been using the pototype version of this cooler for the last 3 weeks and it has gave me exceptional results.
I have just got my hands on the final version (black anodized) and saw a whole 1c drop in temps under load over the prototype version.

I having been getting good results with this cooler as in better overclocks and the lowest underload temperatures ever,
I have modifed the cooler by sticking the Delta 36cfm on it, as with it's STD fan it is a bit puny.

Please check out my review here and some other reviews:

review 1 @ OcUK

review 2 @ 3D Now

review 3 @ HardOCP

As you can see from all the reviews, it rocks!!!

Here is a provided specification from the company:

ThermoEngine Specification

My question to you is:

1. What are your thoughts on this cooler m8?
2. What are the chances of you getting your hands on this cooler and giving it a go and comparing it to all the other coolers
you have tested?
3 All the reviews I have seen and my own have been taking the temperature from the bottom if the CPU, I would like to see a
review where the temperature is taking from the top of the core like you do in your tests.

The reason I ask is because of this review and his replies to my post:

His review:
Review of 19 coolers

His replies:
His replies


I have been using the ThermoEngine now for a couple of days and have had my machine running @ 1475Mhz / 1.85v 100% stable, which it was not with other coolers. It is underload 24/7 as I run SETI and play a lot of Quake 3. My CPU temperature has never hit over 40c under load and my case temp is between 26c-28c.
I have run with the Taisol and Hedgehog 24/7 and my temps were around 43c under load and the machine was not as stable.

Thanks for reading all of that, and please get yourself a ThermoEngine and do a review Joe. I really need to know if this cooler is the best, or if I can get better.

----------------------
The Slayer of all Machines!
 

Colin

Arctic Silver Senior
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
The ThermoEngine does the same thing the Orbs do. It blows air on the motherboard, cooling it and fooling the temp sensor. Try putting some neoprene around your socket, as in a pelt setup and watch your temps rise. Take a fan and let it blow on the back of your motherboard where the CPU socket is and watch your temps fall. I can’t believe how many overclocking Sites miss this. Bad products, bad research and lots of lemmings!
 
OP
G

Gibbo

Registered
Joined
Feb 25, 2001
Hi there
Come on www.overclockers.com (Joe) we need a proper review of this cooler, with temps taken from the top of the core.

I would like you to review it (Joe), you are the person that does all the other reviews aren't you? You do decent reviews, so please take a look at the ThermoEngine, surely it must be pretty good.

I mean it allows me to get into Windows at 1500Mhz and do benchmarks.

If it does get proven to be a rubbish cooler, what is the best air cooling solution available, money is not a problem, I want the best air cooling heat sink their is.

I still have a PEP66 here, do you think it would offer better performance if I turn the shroud round and add another fans, so one is blowing air down onto the heatsink and a fan on the side sucking the air out?

My temp sensor is underneath my CPU in the socket, so how does the air blowing down onto the CPU affect this. I have adjusted the sensor so it actually touches the base.

I await your replies, but can someone please do a proper review with this cooler!

Gibbo
 

Colin

Arctic Silver Senior
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Gibbo (Feb 25, 2001 09:07 p.m.):
My temp sensor is underneath my CPU in the socket, so how does the air blowing down onto the CPU affect this. I have adjusted the sensor so it actually touches the base.

The temp sensor measures the temp in the airspace between the motherboard and the ceramic plate holding the CPU die. Even with the sensor touching the bottom of the ceramic plate, it does not give an accurate indication of the core temp. Try my suggestions and you will see that cooling the motherboard will change your temps.

Intel has an internal diode in their chips to accurately measure temps. I’m quite certain AMD has one in their chips too. They are not stupid enough to develop a hot running chip without one. Since unfortunately the public does not have access to AMD’s internal diode, we can only obtain accurate core temps with Intel chips. If you want an accurate heatsink comparison, Intel chips must to be used in the tests.
 

Nagorak

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Colin (Feb 25, 2001 11:22 p.m.):
I’m quite certain AMD has one in their chips too.

They don't. That's why your AMD processor will cook itself if you don't have your HSF flush with it. It doesn't have any way of sensing that it is running too hot, so it just keeps chugging away into a fiery oblivion. Intel Chips, on the other hand, will shut themselves off when they are in danger of overheating.
 

Nagorak

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
According to results of tests performed at www.2cooltek.com, the ThermoEngine is one of the worst heatsinks out there. So, either 2Cooltek's review is wrong, or the other sites' reviews are wrong. I'll withold judgment until Overclockers.com does a review of it ;-) I just don't know how Joe is going to bore a heatsensor into the unit, since apparentely the center is filled with parafin wax?
 

Nagorak

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Probably the best air cooling available is the 80 mm swiftech heatsink MC-402 or something (I think the name I wrote is totally wrong, but I don't feel like looking it up right now.) Check the review on the main page. The thing is damn expensive though, it'll set you back more than $50.
 

Colin

Arctic Silver Senior
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Think about it. You have a large company competing with Chipzilla and you have a new CPU that runs a bit on the hot side. Do you really believe AMD risked their fortunes by creating a new CPU without an internal diode for accurately measuring internal temps? Doh, that would be suicide! The diode is in there. The chips run so dang hot that the consumer is “protected” from knowing the truth. They probably won’t last anywhere near as long as an Intel chip.

As far as I’m concerned, I really don’t care if they burn up prematurely. The design cycle is very short now. They are cheap and I have had more fun playing with them than anything since my first computer 19 years ago. If I smoke a chip, FedEx will have one here the next day. As extra insurance, why not keep a spare Duron around in case you trash your main Bird? In many ways, for a tweaker, it just doesn’t get any better than this!
 

Nagorak

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
I really don't know what you are trying to say. According to reports on many tech sites, there is no thermal diode inside the Athlon chip. Why would AMD have put an internal diode in their chips and then decided to keep it secret? That doesn't make any sense. If there is an internal diode, then why do the chips burn themselves up?

I guess I don't really understand why you are so convinced there is an internal diode inside AMD processors, despite great evidence to the contrary.
 

Colin

Arctic Silver Senior
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
In the chip industry, you don’t develop new chip that requires an external cooling apparatus without a way to accurately measure the internal temps. Let’s say your chip is very fast but it also runs very hot. Excessive heat means a diminished lifespan. Enter the marketing department. And the marketing department decides to keep the actual temps from the public so it does not hurt sales. This sort of thing goes on in industry and especially in government, all the time. It’s kind of like believing the Blackbird is the fastest airplane ever built, even though it first flew 43 years ago, because the aviation industry and the US government tell us so! Where do the tech sites get their information and how much of it is really true? What I am trying to express are some of the basic principles of engineering and the elusion of marketing. AMD would be foolish and financially irresponsible to develop a hot running chip without an accurate way to measure the internal temperature.

The internal diode for measuring temps is there and we don’t have access to it for a reason. Have you seen Conspiracy Theory lately? LOL! Check my post on AMD’s denial of overclocking in the General Forum for further evidence of “marketing”.
 

Rob Cork

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Location
Woodcote, UK
Sorry Colin, I'm not convinced either - it all sounds too much like some far-out conspiracy theory to me. As Nagorak has pointed out, the chips are famous for frying themselves without a hsf - if there is a diode in there AMD don't seem to be doing anything with it. And I doubt they'd lie about not having a temperature diode just to keep the real temps from the public, 'cause most of the public just don't care about temps, so it would hardly hurt sales. We'd still buy them as overclockers cos they oc well and we're going to keep them nice and cool anyway, so what does it matter? I don't see why they'd be 'mad' not to include a temperature monitoring diode in the chip - what would be mad would be to include one and then not use it - that's a waste of money. As far as I'm concerned there is no diode, and if there were AMD would tell us - they have nothing to gain from hiding it. If anything it would be a selling point, saying that you could accurately measure the cpu's temp and stop it overheating.
 

Colin

Arctic Silver Senior
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Believe what you will. The conspiracy comment was just for fun. Spend some time in marketing and manufacturing and you will understand. FWIW, I have had a bunch of time in both. Note that I am not bashing AMD either. Gotta love a company that puts out a powerful chip and makes it available at such a low price.