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Thermosyphon Cooling Solution

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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Passmark, lol. That's part of the problem. ;)

I don't know why it would say that. Again, by all specifications it is SLOWER than a i9-10900K. It's dual core boost is 100 MHz less than 10900K. Look at both processors at the Intel Ark and see what I am saying.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...0900f-processor-20m-cache-up-to-5-20-ghz.html
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...0900k-processor-20m-cache-up-to-5-30-ghz.html
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15785/the-intel-comet-lake-review-skylake-we-go-again

View attachment 211388

Maybe overclocked as it is likely a better bin since it is 65W? But that said, isn't it locked (CPU multiplier) anyway?



EDIT: You added more to your post after I posted, lol...please just make another post so nothing gets missed. :)

That's the kind of heat load the thermosyphon removes.
Let's see it..... so far... nada.
 
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OP
Dr_Emmett_Brown

Dr_Emmett_Brown

Registered
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Apr 22, 2020
Location
Caprona
Nada?

Selling 328 servers so far this year equipped like that isn't what I would call "nada." I only post on here on my days off, and when clients don't sign an NDA for prototyping new stuff or pay us to research some off the wall stuff.

But since you count this as "nada," I'll stay offline for the next month or two.
 

bmwbaxter

Joined
Jun 9, 2010
I think he was talking about how nothing you have showed illustrates your thermosyphon as being able to even cool a single 125w TDP chip. so Nada...
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I count this as lip service so far, yes. What would you call it if you were in our shoes? Remember the only thing we've seen is a video with questionable narration and the device not working.

We (all) just want to see it working as you say it should (cooling a data center rack and better than 'quadruple radiators' - a still undefined term). So far, you've posted a video with a slew of narration/what was going on errors AND it didn't work/the CPU was throttling. So please understand, dear Dr, we all want to see it work, but, you can't seem to provide anything concrete on it for months now.

What's absolutely hilarious is I was just having this discussion with another staff member and they mentioned the next thing you'd say is NDA and we can't see it. He called that! :rofl::D

So, maybe your next post here should actually be one of these devices cooling any kind of CPU instead of the continuous flow of unproven performance (and ambiguous) claims we've seen so far. There is nothing more we all want than to see it work as you say.. :attn:
 
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Dr_Emmett_Brown

Dr_Emmett_Brown

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Caprona
I think he was talking about how nothing you have showed illustrates your thermosyphon as being able to even cool a single 125w TDP chip. so Nada...

The box says 127W TDP, and Intel fudged the hell out of that number. It was 180W without overclocking and, I think, about 205W with all cores banging away at 5.1 GHz.

As shown in the video, just under 200W.

You guys are conveniently forgetting the most important details.

1. Only 2 fans in push config on video with an obvious lack of surface area coverage for cooling. Again, just a demo for the person who POLITELY asked "Can I see one in operation?"

2. 8 fans in push/pull ship on the industrial grade versions.

3. The COPPER finned condenser was swapped out with a smaller ALUMINUM finned condenser. That swapped condenser had much lower heat removal capacity.

4. After the fact, a small vapor leak was discovered. That's the equicalent of trying to cool your house with a few windows open during the summer.

5. For the friggin 3rd time THIS WAS JUST TO SHOW THE DAMN THING RUNNING not prove anything about claims.

6. The NDA I mentioned was not a "dodge" of any kind and only an *** would try to mislead the readers into thinking it was. I didn't say what you implied. I said I ONLY show systems or builds not covered under NDA and that particular build was not. I didn't say I'm not showcasing any such future build. The next person who pays for one and says No NDA required will be shown here.

Stop being such jerks.
 
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bmwbaxter

Joined
Jun 9, 2010
The box says 127W TDP, and Intel fudged the hell out of that number. It was 180W without overclocking and, I think, about 205W with all cores banging away at 5.1 GHz.

As shown in the video, just under 200W.

You guys are conveniently forgetting the most important details.

I think the most important part we didn't miss, it wasn't a video showing it working. It was a video of a CPU thermal throttling to prevent itself from dying. So I will congratulate Intel on a job well done!
 
OP
Dr_Emmett_Brown

Dr_Emmett_Brown

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I think the most important part we didn't miss, it wasn't a video showing it working. It was a video of a CPU thermal throttling to prevent itself from dying. So I will congratulate Intel on a job well done!

comment shows ignorance and is functionally ignored
 

freeagent

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Location
Winnipeg!
Its not ignorance though. CPU's have been able to put out in excess of 200w with ease since Gulftown and Westmere on the Intel HEDT side. My x5690 @ stock is 130w TDP. When we start talking northward of 275w you'll get my attention.. because my old girl likes her voltage high. I would be impressed if it could cool my 3770K lol.. don't make me make it suffer. Thanks to Bimmer for giving it a new lease on life with this sweet board :cool:

I believe in you. You can make it happen captain. But until then you have some stiff competition :cry:
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Location
Buckeyes!
Stop being such jerks.
I don't think anyone is being a jerk here. We're just asking to see this cooling a cpu without it throttling. That is a simple request and well within the scope of this thread, is it not? These are the expectations you set up (actually, you said it can cool better than a quad radiator and able to cool a data center rack). But we're the bad guys for wanting to see it work?

The wattage isn't the point here. Lets focus on your next post which we hope contains a video of this cooling a cpu without it throttling under load. Baby steps. :cool:
 
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Dr_Emmett_Brown

Dr_Emmett_Brown

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Caprona
I don't think anyone is being a jerk here. We're just asking to see this cooling a cpu without it throttling. That is a simple request and well within the scope of this thread, is it not? These are the expectations you set up (actually, you said it can cool better than a quad radiator and able to cool a data center rack). But we're the bad guys for wanting to see it work?

The wattage isn't the point here. Lets focus on your next post which we hope contains a video of this cooling a cpu without it throttling under load. Baby steps. :cool:

Ok now you're bordering on the idiotic.

What part of "that video is a demo of a quickly built thermosyphon and not the industrual strength product" do you not understand?

And tell me which 3.6 GHz chip scores 5000 on CineBench R20? Is that indicative of excessive throttling?

Hell no.

You saw a red line squiggle at the start, because AIDA was still running in the background. So 9 active processes were running on an 8 core machine.

I thought you were incapable of such a low level of comprehension. Now it's obvious you're just a clique trying to shape a narrative. You're the Nancy Pelosi's of the world of computer forum participants. And you whine like babies "Wah wah I wanna see , show me now, wah wah wah."

Tough luck. Wallow in your own ignorance.

A 5000 score on CineBench R20 with a 5.0 GHz overclock shows practically 0 throttling for a 9900KF chip.
 

bassnut

Premium Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Hey doc what your working on is above my ability to put together. But I can comprehend the result just fine. Your CPU was throttling, sorry. I really would like to see an actual working version not, as you just put it something you tossed together for a demo.

I have stayed out of posting here in this thread simply
because it is slightly above me though still interest me in hopes of seeing a propperly version.

There are some guys here on this form, fan boys or whatever you wish to call them for sure but a couple that have been posting here Earthdog and Mascotte are both guys you can count on for good advise regardless of their preference of equipment or ideology. Both will call you out if you post wrong or misleading posts or recommendations, in short you can count on their advice to be good and fair.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Ok now you're bordering on the idiotic.

What part of "that video is a demo of a quickly built thermosyphon and not the industrual strength product" do you not understand?
I understood that the first time you said it. Thank you, again, for posting a POC. It is awesome. Myself and several others are simply asking to see whatever version of this device is able to cool a CPU and keep it from thermally throttling. I'm not sure why you are so offended by the ask.


And tell me which 3.6 GHz chip scores 5000 on CineBench R20? Is that indicative of excessive throttling?

Hell no.

You saw a red line squiggle at the start, because AIDA was still running in the background. So 9 active processes were running on an 8 core machine.
Sorry, Doc, the video clearly shows throttling starting from about 25% way through in the cinebench run until it completes (see 6:21 in the video...shows it all and 100C temps). The throttling isn't caused by "9 processes on an 8c chip". That isn't how it works. I can assure you that user runs way more processes than have cpu cores. That isn't what pushed it over the edge. AIDA, the stress test, wasn't running ever (in that video) just the monitoring window. So let's drop that charade of thinking is isn't throttling and move on. :)

I thought you were incapable of such a low level of comprehension. Now it's obvious you're just a clique trying to shape a narrative. You're the Nancy Pelosi's of the world of computer forum participants. And you whine like babies "Wah wah I wanna see , show me now, wah wah wah."

Tough luck. Wallow in your own ignorance.

A 5000 score on CineBench R20 with a 5.0 GHz overclock shows practically 0 throttling for a 9900KF chip.
I took to google and found a 9900KF at 5GHz scored 5240 in Cinebench. That's a few % faster than the 49xx score in the video, note.

The only story I'm telling is the narrative that you've provided throughout. If you don't like the story so far, maybe you should start telling it differently. We're excited about the tease... several of us can't wait to see it dialed in and performing as you promised! Let's do without the personal insults though and stick to business.
 
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MaddMutt

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
I did a quick look at the beginning of your Video. I have a few questions to ask about it AND do not think of it as being RUDE. Theses are simple questions from a person that is trying to understand your video.
If there was a technical problem that did not allow it to work properly....POST THE NEW TESTS. Stop defending a Bench that was flawed. Period!!
Question 1
At the Very Beginning of your VIDEO -> You state that you have AIDA64 (Currently) running a stress test on the CPU (In the Video it shows multiple cores checked). The temp with it "RUNNING" is ~36c in the top screen BUT in the bottom screen it shows the CPU usage at less than 20%?? <- How can you stress a i9-9900kf CPU that has 8 Cores/16 Threads without using 100%????
View attachment 211533

Later in the Video you "STOPPED" the AIDA64 stress test to run Cinebench 20. When you ran that test - The temp went to ~100c (The CPU was Clearly Throttling) and the Usage spiked to 100%.
Question 2
You still have not answered WHY the cooling solution was not keeping the CPU from throttling when running CB 20? AIDA64 stress test is harder but you claimed (so me the proof) it kept the CPU at ~40c when hammering the CPU at 100%.

Thank You For Your Time :)
 

Blaylock

"That Backfired" Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Go Blue!
Ok now you're bordering on the idiotic.
I thought you were incapable of such a low level of comprehension. Now it's obvious you're just a clique trying to shape a narrative. You're the Nancy Pelosi's of the world of computer forum participants. And you whine like babies "Wah wah I wanna see , show me now, wah wah wah."

Tough luck. Wallow in your own ignorance.

Dr_Emmett Brown, be advised you are insulting members and introducing politics into your posts. both of these actions violate forum rules and can be grounds for banning. Please restrain yourself from these types of comments.

Thank you.
 

ShrimpBrime

~MadHatDeLidder~
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
You still have not answered WHY the cooling solution was not keeping the CPU from throttling when running CB 20?

Oh I reviewed this thoroughly here as finally gotten the chance.

The answer to Why is...... because it doesn't work.

The cold plate (water block) without a flow of water, (as it was designed?) doesn't work with standing liquid.

To create a vapor, you get the liquid hot. Around 100c. (212F) which is boiling temp, but can prevent the boil if under a pressure.

The issue here, the heat cannot be turned into a vapor and dissipated quickly enough returning the vapor to a liquid cooled by the condensor.

The process is just too slow. You'd want to create a water vapor at 50c CPU load, but that's just not going to happen.

It would actually be easier to Passively cool a 10900KF (or other) .....

_____

Since it takes 100c to turn water into a vapor, this pipe dreamed up concept would be nearly impossible to run a chip cooler than say an air cooler without a fan on it.

That is all I have to answer WHY this system just won't work.

(Good seeing you guys! Hope all has been well???)
 

MaddMutt

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Oh I reviewed this thoroughly here as finally gotten the chance.

The answer to Why is...... because it doesn't work.

The cold plate (water block) without a flow of water, (as it was designed?) doesn't work with standing liquid.

To create a vapor, you get the liquid hot. Around 100c. (212F) which is boiling temp, but can prevent the boil if under a pressure.

The issue here, the heat cannot be turned into a vapor and dissipated quickly enough returning the vapor to a liquid cooled by the condensor.

The process is just too slow. You'd want to create a water vapor at 50c CPU load, but that's just not going to happen.

It would actually be easier to Passively cool a 10900KF (or other) .....

_____

Since it takes 100c to turn water into a vapor, this pipe dreamed up concept would be nearly impossible to run a chip cooler than say an air cooler without a fan on it.

That is all I have to answer WHY this system just won't work.

(Good seeing you guys! Hope all has been well???)

^I had the same thought last night.
This is a modification/variation/simplified version of a Single Stage Phase Change cooler. Here is a quick break down of how it works -> https://www.overclockers.com/an-introduction-to-extreme-cooling/ AND a more complete how to -> https://www.overclockers.com/build-your-own-phase-change-pc-cooling-system/
Now that we know that the system should work, you (Doc. Brown) need to ask why it didn't. Trouble shoot the problem, fix it, and try again :)
We would still like to see this experiment work :thup:
 

godevskii

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Well to be fair he gave some plausible explanations, the heat exchanger was swapped, a leak and the configuration and effective area of the fans not being set up/able to take full advantage of the heat exchanger.

Now if those are the only motives for its bad permance idk, but honestly i would like to see a proper test with all of the above sorted out and then compare the numbers.
 

ShrimpBrime

~MadHatDeLidder~
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
but honestly i would like to see a proper test with all of the above sorted out and then compare the numbers.

Me too, but even if he had 90c results, an adequate water loop would achieve the same.

10$ TEC under a water block.