Thinking about building a cheap file server, suggestions?

[Chaos_Being]

My initial plan when I build my new pc was to use "Megatron" in my sig as a file server. Of course, it would be major overkill hardware-wise (or so I think) for a simple file server. Then I got to thinking. My sister is in need of a pc to replace her ancient one, and wants to buy one soon. I may offer to gut Megatron, put it in a smaller case (I know she does not want a gi-normous server case,) and sell it to her once I have my new machine set up. This would help offset the costs of a new rig as well.

The question that arises from this is, well what do I use as my file server? It will be used for the use of my wife and I (so single household,) and will host mainly music and movies. I'm just tired of having my shared data spread out between two pc's; it would be easier just to have one dedicated setup that can always be on and available.

What I would need is mainly a cpu, motherboard, ram, and psu combo. I would use my Chieftec case, I already have hard drives (a mix of PATA and SATA) and necessary accessories. I would want to keep this CHEAP, to maximise the amount of money I can use towards my new main pc.

I have an old Dell I got from a client that has a 2.0ghz, 400mhz fsb Celeron in it. CPU-Z reports it as being a Northwood core. I'm assuming that this is socket 478? Would this be sufficient in speed for a file server, possibly a ftp server? Keep in mind that I will be streaming video and music off this server.


Question #2. I'm thinking I could also use the motherboard and psu from this Dell in question, but there is one thing making me unsure: I would want to move this over to a larger case. Looking at the mobo, I"m not sure if it would be compatible with the power/reset connectors in my Chieftec case (instead of several small connectors, it is just one large plug connecting the mobo to the front panel on this Dell case.) It would also be nice to overclock a bit- not necessary, but nice. That means I may need a new motherboard. I searched NewEgg for "CPU Socket Type: 478, FSB: 533/400, CPU Type: Pentium 4/Celeron," and came up with this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ce=&MaxPrice=&SubCategory=280&Submit=Property

Not the most awe-inspiring group, but at least they're all cheap. Are there any in particular here that I should avoid?

From there I'd probably grab 1gb of cheap pc2100 or pc2700 ram, and a cheap but reliable PSU, like a Fortron. Any suggestions? I may even be able to just use the PSU in the Dell, although I remember reading a while ago that their PSU's were wired a bit differently, and would not work on a non-Dell mobo. Truth? I'd also need a cheapie PCI SATA control card, so I can run my SATA drives.

Does this seem like a decent plan? Or should I just scrap the idea of recycling this 2ghz Celeron and use something a little bit newer? Thanks, sorry for the slew of questions

 

[Gnufsh]

My initial plan when I build my new pc was to use "Megatron" in my sig as a file server. Of course, it would be major overkill hardware-wise (or so I think) for a simple file server. Then I got to thinking. My sister is in need of a pc to replace her ancient one, and wants to buy one soon. I may offer to gut Megatron, put it in a smaller case (I know she does not want a gi-normous server case,) and sell it to her once I have my new machine set up. This would help offset the costs of a new rig as well.

The question that arises from this is, well what do I use as my file server? It will be used for the use of my wife and I (so single household,) and will host mainly music and movies. I'm just tired of having my shared data spread out between two pc's; it would be easier just to have one dedicated setup that can always be on and available.

What I would need is mainly a cpu, motherboard, ram, and psu combo. I would use my Chieftec case, I already have hard drives (a mix of PATA and SATA) and necessary accessories. I would want to keep this CHEAP, to maximise the amount of money I can use towards my new main pc.

I have an old Dell I got from a client that has a 2.0ghz, 400mhz fsb Celeron in it. CPU-Z reports it as being a Northwood core. I'm assuming that this is socket 478? Would this be sufficient in speed for a file server, possibly a ftp server? Keep in mind that I will be streaming video and music off this server.

That should be more than fast enough.

Question #2. I'm thinking I could also use the motherboard and psu from this Dell in question, but there is one thing making me unsure: I would want to move this over to a larger case. Looking at the mobo, I"m not sure if it would be compatible with the power/reset connectors in my Chieftec case (instead of several small connectors, it is just one large plug connecting the mobo to the front panel on this Dell case.)

I hate how dell does this. If you can find a pinout somewhere on dell's work you can probably make it work.

It would also be nice to overclock a bit- not necessary, but nice.

I'd be very careful overclocking a file server. Make sure your data is safe.

That means I may need a new motherboard. I searched NewEgg for "CPU Socket Type: 478, FSB: 533/400, CPU Type: Pentium 4/Celeron," and came up with this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ce=&MaxPrice=&SubCategory=280&Submit=Property

Not the most awe-inspiring group, but at least they're all cheap. Are there any in particular here that I should avoid?[/quote]
not sure about this one.

From there I'd probably grab 1gb of cheap pc2100 or pc2700 ram, and a cheap but reliable PSU, like a Fortron. Any suggestions?

sounds good. Consider ECC if you want that extra level of reliability/fault tolerance.

I may even be able to just use the PSU in the Dell, although I remember reading a while ago that their PSU's were wired a bit differently, and would not work on a non-Dell mobo. Truth?

I think I've seen some with non-standard connectors. Fire it up and check with a DMM (or see if it says on it or try and find docs from dell that tell you what wire is what). It may be insufficient anyway if you slam on a bunch of additional HDDs.

I'd also need a cheapie PCI SATA control card, so I can run my SATA drives.

Does this seem like a decent plan? Or should I just scrap the idea of recycling this 2ghz Celeron and use something a little bit newer? Thanks, sorry for the slew of questions

It sounds like a good plan. File servers usually don't need a great deal of power.

 

[Chaos_Being]

Thanks for the feedback. As far as the PSU goes, I probably won't even bother messing with the Dell one. From my experience they're usually rebadged crap, at least the old ones were. How many watts should I be looking at to power that 2ghz celeron and say, 5-6 drives? (I have 4 now which would be going in there, I know for sure that I'd eventually expand.) I was looking at a 300w Sparkle, which is around $25 on the Egg.

Overclocking would basically just be a gimme. Its not necessary, but I probably would if I could Anyways, all of my data is residing on overclocked machines now without a hiccup. I do need to back it up onto DVD's eventually though...its just going to be a long, boring job.

Out of the mobo's that I linked, I'd probably end up going with the Gigabyte one. Its cheap, it has the option to add an AGP card, and I have a friend that loves their products. And I'm assuming I could OC with it.

So long as this would have enough grunt to stream video and other large files, I think I should be set.

 

[LordDarik]

For a PSU, check out this 300w Enermax:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103463

 

[jcw122]

Hey Chaos, I'm no server person, but here's a Wishlist of a build I may do very soon, it's a nice system, and shouldn't be overkill:

http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/WishShareShow.asp?ID=1681533&WishListTitle=Lake+Build

Note: it's a cheap one, but there is a wireless card in that wishlist, so keep in mind when u look at the total price at bottom


If you have any questions about the system, feel free to PM me.

 

[Xymurgy]

I use an old 1.3 ghz Willamette with a couple RAID-0's, and it does perfectly fine (I've streamed music videos off it, nothing too taxing, but it works). There's really no need to OC - except for fun, of course.

I pulled the 1.3 out of a Dell machine, and put it into a TH7-II RAID motherboard to get the RAID. You may want to consider using a RAID-0, since the only bottlenecks will be the LAN connection, the LAN card, and the HD bandwidth. RAID's are probably overkill if one computer will act as a client at a time, but it does add to the "fun" factor a bit.

I also use Windows 2003 Server.

 

[Gnufsh]

Of course, the MTBF of a RAID 0 array is half that of the individual drives.

 

[jcw122]

Of course, the MTBF of a RAID 0 array is half that of the individual drives.

What's MTBF stand for?

 

[elec999]

Get a amd sempron with a motherboard that has onboard sata. I think the celerons are too hot and use alot of power.
Thanks

 

[Gnufsh]

What's MTBF stand for?

Mean Time Before Failure. You should be able to look the specified MTBF for each of your drives.

 

[Sleepy_Steve]

Holly Hell Chaos_Being is from the same town as me?!?!!?

Ever consider running up to lazarus for some cheap old stuff? - i always used them for fans and such... and some other random hardware i didnt feel like buying.
(PM me and I'll give info to contact them, but atm i dont remember)

If it were me, i would try the old dell, keep it's PSU...
Clean out the dust from the parts / fans / heatsinks and such...
Transplat it to another case...
Drop in whatever cheap RAM you want to live in there....
Find an SATA controler card on the cheap, drop in the drives and go to town.

If the dell PSU fails, only then would i think about getting a new mobo / PSU...
Simply because i have never heard of a file server needing to be a cash hog.

*EDIT* I no longer live in Columbia, but still visit often when not at school. (VT)

 

[Chaos_Being]

Yup I've been in Columbia for over 4 years, I'm going to be moving soon to a nearby area though. Goodbye apartment, hello house!

As far as transplanting the Dell, I basically just need to see if I can figure out how to connect the power/reset buttons, hdd led, etc to the control cables on a non-Dell case. I can probably figure it out if I take some time. If not, the mobo and psu I have in mind come to about $65 total anyways.

I've never heard of Lazarus though...PM'ing you

 

[Xymurgy]

Of course, the MTBF of a RAID 0 array is half that of the individual drives.

This comment has me pondering...

The sole fact that a drive is in a RAID means that one is going to fail 50% faster? Sure there's more of a chance a drive will fail (simply because there are two drives), but the MTBF shouldn't really be affected. The mean time is calculated among all the models, so you're not guaranteed a failure (that chance should still be 5% or whatever it would be).

 

[geid3811]

GNufsh is correct. I believe the reason the MTBF of RAID 0 is half that the file system is distributed across all disks. When a drive fails the file system cannot cope with such a large loss of data and coherency since the data is "striped" across all drives. Data can be recovered using special tools. However, it will be incomplete and most likely corrupt.

Note: Stole some of that from wikipedia

 

[Chaos_Being]

If it were me, i would try the old dell, keep it's PSU...

I checked it, the PSU in the Dell is a 200w unit. I'm not confident that it would have enough power to run 5, 6 or more hard drives like I plan to have eventually. Am I right or wrong?

 

[Gnufsh]

This comment has me pondering...

The sole fact that a drive is in a RAID means that one is going to fail 50% faster? Sure there's more of a chance a drive will fail (simply because there are two drives), but the MTBF shouldn't really be affected. The mean time is calculated among all the models, so you're not guaranteed a failure (that chance should still be 5% or whatever it would be).

The MTBF for each drive stays the same, but the array fails if either drive fails. This is where a little math comes in. Two drives make it twice as likely that one will fail before the MTBF of a single drives (since by definition half of the drives fail before then), so the MTBF of something that requires both drives is half. Did I make any sense whatsoever?

 

[hagrid]

The MTBF for each drive stays the same, but the array fails if either drive fails. This is where a little math comes in. Two drives make it twice as likely that one will fail before the MTBF of a single drives (since by definition half of the drives fail before then), so the MTBF of something that requires both drives is half. Did I make any sense whatsoever?

Or you can translate it into this: Raid 0 is for performance and not for file protection. If it fails your info is most likely gone so for a good and safe fileserver use raid 1, just run them normal, or normal with a backup drive. Better safe then sorry.

 

[Sleepy_Steve]

LOL, are we forgetting why raid 0 is more likley to fail? it's realy simple... you have twice the points of failure as a normal drive with no added redundanceys.

anyway, with how cheap DVD's are now days to back up data... i figure its cheap enough to burn em to DVD rather than go to the expense of building a raid system (raid 5 raid 1... whatever is needed to get redundancey)... but that judgement is bassed on how precious ur time is, naturaly i have little better to spend my time with... but thats just me. oh and beer, thats a big time grabber too

 

[matttaylor]

My file server/web server is really crappy but it does it's job extremely well. It's an old Dell XPS 450 (450mhz P3, 288 megs of ram 3dfx voodoo3 with 4 18gig scsi drives in a raid 0 array with the stock 200ish watt power supply). It's nothing super BUT it does it's job without any problems.

To save yourself some cash and make your new computer better, just use your sisters old sytem as your server and add storage drives to it. Then spend the extra cash on newer parts for your new rig.

 

[Chaos_Being]

To save yourself some cash and make your new computer better, just use your sisters old sytem as your server and add storage drives to it. Then spend the extra cash on newer parts for your new rig.

Well that was the general plan already (as in I was going to use an old system of mine for some of the parts for my server,) but using my sister's old pc for my server is something I didn't think of. Its an old AMD that I"m not very familiar with, 1.3ghz T-bird. Which would be more suitable for a file server- that cpu or a 2.0ghz celeron? Or would it even matter?

If I remember correctly, her rig has a voodoo 3 in it too- l33t