thinking of making 2 duallies

[CharlesHF]

My dad is currently toying with the idea of replacing 2 of the drafting machines at his office with 2 duallies. He's an architect, and one of his new programs is apparently designed to take advantage of dual CPU's.
I've never messed with SMP before, so I put forth the following for your expert opinion. I tried to do a little research beforehand, hopefully it's ok. (We would be replacing everything but the monitors and the hard drives, which is why they aren't in the list.)

Motherboard: MSI K7-D Master-L
CPUs: XP1700+ TBredB's
Video: Gainward Ti4200 128MB 3.6ns
RAM: 1GB of PC2700 Corsair (2x512MB)
Case: Chieftec full tower aluminum

My dad likes the water cooling that he currently has on his office machine, and thinks that he'd like to put H2O on these computers too---hopefully it'll all fit.
Waterblocks-Tek TC-4's
Radiator: D-Tek heatercore/shroud combo
Tubing: Clearflex60
Pump: ViaAqua1300
Fan: 120mm Sunon
Misc. purple ice and y-adapters.

If we don't go H2O, we'll use:
SLK-800's with the 84cfm 80mm Sunon hsf, as reviewed here.

The TBird1.4 and XP1600+ that these duallies would be replacing will replace 2 other machines in his office, and then one of those will replace yet another, for a total of 5 machines upgraded for under $2k.

I totaled everything up and the difference between H2O and air is only $197, which is negligible, so we'll probably go H2O.
If anything on this list won't fit (ie: waterblocks on mobo, hsf's on mobo, etc) please tell me.
Any input/thoughts/comments would be appreciated.

edit: I forgot to mention this, I know it's going to come up---Yes, the idea is to overclock these.

 

[Kendan]

Since it is going to be in an office evironment I would suggest using registered ram. But let the experts talk about the advantages of it.

 

[jd300]

man i bet that is going to be nice system

 

[cmcquistion]

Why use GF4's for Drafting machines?

I think a Matrox G450 or G550 would be better. They are optimized for CAD and various design programs and the picture quality is the best you can get, anywhere. I love my Ti4600 at home, but, honestly, the Matrox cards have better picture quality and are better for CAD and such.

Secondly, I would suggest Registered RAM. Samsung Registered ECC PC2700 is absolutely fantastic and is CHEAPER than Crucial Registered ECC PC2100. In a couple years, if you decide to upgrade to a Hammer system, you'll be able to use those sticks of Registered ECC PC2700 again.

If you know you are going to be doing water cooling, check out the Lite-On FS-020 case. It is AWESOME! It's the one that Swiftech uses for it's watercooled Q-Power system (the quietest watercooling case that there is, as far as I know.) You don't need to buy Swiftech's package, just get the Lite-On case from Newegg and build the system yourself.

 

[CharlesHF]

ECC is overclockable, right?
edit: I think I'm still going to go with the GF4---128MB of RAM vs. 32MB of RAM? Also, we've never exactly had the top of the line graphics cards at his office. A small 5-person architecture firm just doesn't need that kind of stuff.

 

[cmcquistion]

ECC is overclockable, right?

Yep.

That Samsung Registered ECC PC2700 will run 150 FSB with aggressive timings. I'm running two 512 MB sticks on this machine, right now. (I don't run with ECC on, though, it's not really needed, unless you're running a critical File Server.)

edit: I think I'm still going to go with the GF4---128MB of RAM vs. 32MB of RAM? Also, we've never exactly had the top of the line graphics cards at his office. A 5-person small architecture firm just doesn't need that kind of stuff.

I'm just saying that a Matrox card would be better for CAD than an Nvidia card. The picture quality is better and the performance in design programs is better.

*EDIT* $117 for a 128 MB Ti4200 or $84 for a Matrox G450 with better performance and picture quality. ($95 for a Matrox G550)

 

[CharlesHF]

Yep.

That Samsung Registered ECC PC2700 will run 150 FSB with aggressive timings. I'm running two 512 MB sticks on this machine, right now. (I don't run with ECC on, though, it's not really needed, unless you're running a critical File Server.)



I'm just saying that a Matrox card would be better for CAD than an Nvidia card. The picture quality is better and the performance in design programs is better.

Based on your suggestions, I'm sure we'll look into both. Thanks for your input. Anyone have anything else?
Does anyone know if that TC-4 will fit on a K7-D Master-L?

 

[CharlesHF]

With my dad's latest program (Revit 5.1 by Autodesk) I know that he has been doing many more things in 3D lately---drawing as well as rendering. I've seen that program render, it's absolutely gorgeous but it takes a while. How good are those Matrox cards with 3D?

edit: the "Accurender" portion of Revit is the program that takes advantage of dual processors, if anyone cares.

 

[cmcquistion]

How good are those Matrox cards with 3D?

They're good with 3D Design apps, not great for games. Those 3D Design apps don't use DirectX and stuff, though. The cards are really designed for designers, not gaming.

If I were you, though, I would check the support section of Autodesk's website for that app. They probably have some information of what hardware is recommended and such. They might even have a user forum.

 

[cmcquistion]

From Autodesk's website:

Problem:

Revit has been tested on the following graphics/video cards and found them to NOT function properly as OpenGL hardware accelerators when using Revit.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solution:


4.x Graphic Cards tested and NOT Supported
--------------------------------------------
3dfx Interactive(16MB)
3dfx Voodoo3 (16MB)
ELSA Gloria Synergy (8MB)
ATI Fire GL2
ATI RAGE MOBILITY 128 AGP 4X
Diamond Fire GL1000
Nvidia Riva TNT (16MB)
Matrox Millennium G400 (32MB)
NVIDIA Riva TNT 2 Model 64 (Dell)
NVIDIA Riva TNT 2 Model 64 / 64Pro

Clients have also reported that the following
cards do not support Revit's OpenGL requirements
------------------------------------------------
ATI Rage 128 Magnum
ATI Rage 128 Xpert 128 Pro
NVIDIA geforce 4 128mb





Problem:

Revit has been tested on the following graphics/video cards and found them to function properly as OpenGL harware accelerators when using Revit


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solution:


4.x tested and Supported Graphic Cards
--------------------------------------
ELSA Gloria II (64MB)
Diamond Fire GL2 (64MB)
ATI Rage 128 PRO AGP 4X (16MB)
3dLabs Oxygen GVX1 (32MB)
3DLabs Oxygen VX1
Diamond Fire GL (32MB)
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX (32MB)
Creative/3D Labs - Wildcat 7110


Clients have also reported that the following cards
support Revit OpenGL requirements
------------------------------------------------
ATI 3D Rage Pro AGP (32MB)
ATI Rage Fury Pro AGP (32 MB)
ATI Radeon 7200 AGP (32 MB)
Matrox Productiva G100 AGP (8 MB)

 

[CharlesHF]

Wow, thanks. I kept looking under Revit for technical stuff but I couldn't find it. They must hide that on their website, lol.
edit: looks like it doesn't say anything about the G450 or the G550. Then again, I could be blind.

 

[cmcquistion]

User group, here, but I couldn't find any matches with Matrox or G450 or G550 and the Revit product.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=2958180

Lots of users of other Autodesk programs are using G450's and G550's and having good luck in other Autodesk apps.

 

[CharlesHF]

User group, here, but I couldn't find any matches with Matrox or G450 or G550 and the Revit product.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=2958180

Lots of users of other Autodesk programs are using G450's and G550's and having good luck in other Autodesk apps.

Sweet, looks like we'll get a G450 or G550 instead of a GF4. Now I just need to make sure of one more thing---my dad uses dual monitors on his machine, can the GX50 run dual monitors? (both CRT's)

 

[pip]

I would suggest The parhelia or a 3DLabs Wildcat if your doing Drafting it would seriously improve performance over either the GF4 or the g4/550 but the Wildcats are outlandishly priced so the parhelia would probly be the best bet

 

[CharlesHF]

I would suggest The parhelia or a 3DLabs Wildcat if your doing Drafting it would seriously improve performance over either the GF4 or the g4/550 but the Wildcats are outlandishly priced so the parhelia would probly be the best bet

One thing I forgot to mention is that yes, like all businesses, we're trying to do more for less. In other words, getting 2 $350 graphics cards is out of the question. Thanks anyway, though.

 

[Bender]

My dualie has a R9700 pro running dual monitors and its just fine in Autocad 2002, Mechanical desktop 5 (I think) and Inventor 5.3. You probably dont want to spend that much for a vid card but you might want to concider a 9500. You can get a 9500 non pro for $149 and have a chance getting it to mod into a 9700 or you can simply get a 9500 pro for around $115.

 

[cmcquistion]

Sweet, looks like we'll get a G450 or G550 instead of a GF4. Now I just need to make sure of one more thing---my dad uses dual monitors on his machine, can the GX50 run dual monitors? (both CRT's)

Yes. The G450 has two VGA outs. The G550 has two DVI outs, but it comes with DVI-VGA adapters for both, so you can run two CRT's on it.

My dualie has a R9700 pro running dual monitors and its just fine in Autocad 2002, Mechanical desktop 5 (I think) and Inventor 5.3. You probably dont want to spend that much for a vid card but you might want to concider a 9500. You can get a 9500 non pro for $149 and have a chance getting it to mod into a 9700 or you can simply get a 9500 pro for around $115.

The people in the AutoDesk forum really bashed ATI cards for AutoXXXX apps. They said that there were lots of driver problems.

...like all businesses, we're trying to do more for less.

That's so funny... You know Microsoft's new slogan is "Do More With Less..."

 

[CharlesHF]

That's so funny... You know Microsoft's new slogan is "Do More With Less..."

Oh geez, you're giving me the creeps! If I had known that was their new slogan I wouldn't have said it, lol!

 

[dagamore]

Since this is for an work machine, i would not recomend the XP moded chips, and i would go with ecc-reged ram, and would run it at stock. Just for stability, and warenty reasons. and go with a profesional card, liek the g550 or something along thouse lines. but thats just me.

 

[Vulpes]

g550 far more superior than Nvidia Ti/FX series and ATi Radeon series, trust me, based on personal experience. The other way to go is to get the new Matrox Millenium P750 (64 meg, 3 monitor support, greatest value card for office env.) or slightly cheaper Matrox Millenium P650 (also 64meg, dual moitor support, all bells and whistles) They will be out very soon, i would find 2 acceptable cards, and then buy a pair for P750 babies.