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Tri-Band Router reached the maximum number of connected devices, now what?

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c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
My Netgear R7960P a.k.a. Nighthawk X6S AC3600 Tri-Band WiFi Router reached the maximum number of connections.
I switched all the devices I could to 5GHz but many devices only connect through a 2.4GHz connection.

I understand that the max number on 2.4GHz is 64 devices?


So I tried to do research on this topic and much to my amazement "no one" is talking about max number of connections.
When someone asks, they get answers that have nothing to do with max number of connections.

Reviewers review routers and never mention the topic of max number of connections (!)


So what gives, why is no one talking about this?

What's on the market that can take more connections than my Netgear Nighthawk X6S AC3600 Tri-Band WiFi Router?



Maybe I'll start a different thread if I don't get a post on this separate q: How do you remove a device from the list of connected devices? Not block, remove, as in "forget" a device that's on the list of connected devices / previously connected devices?
 

Janus67

Benching Team Leader
Joined
May 29, 2005
https://store.ui.com/collections/unifi-network-access-points/products/unifi-hd

500+ connected clients.

You will have to do your own research into what that means for the different bands on the AP.

How many devices does one expect to have on their home network over wireless? If it is a business I would expect to see something that is made for at least pro-sumer use (like ubiuiqi products).

With that said, various articles discuss this:
An example:
https://www.extremenetworks.com/extreme-networks-blog/how-many-devices-can-my-access-point-support/

https://serverfault.com/questions/1...-of-wifi-connections-for-a-single-wifi-router
 
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OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Help me understand my existing situation first, will you?

So first let's take my own existing router, model
Netgear R7960P a.k.a. Nighthawk X6S AC3600 Tri-Band WiFi Router
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/R7960P.aspx

This is an excellent example router to help anyone reading this understand.

So it appears that you can connect 32 devices per band.
So since it is a Tri-Band, it's 32 devices on 2.4GHz [and then it has two 5GHz bands with 32 devices each] so
32+32+32= 96 devices. But that is irrelevant.

KEY is 32 per band.
So since many (many) devices can only do 2.4GHz, you are stuck with 32 devices really?

No one really talks about how you can only have 32 Devices on 2.4GHz.
I found out the hard way that my Cams only do 2.4GHz, my WiFi power adaptors only do 2.4GHz - none of them can do 5GHz.


Is what I posted above correct?

So what can be done? Does a WiFi Range extender give me more devices?
Like this one:
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/EX6200.aspx


And then I am looking at the connected devices and I see more than 32 devices connected to my 2.4GHz band, how is that possible?
 
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c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
P. S.
In other words, if you do search for maximum number of connections, almost no one (!!) ever says this and I cannot understand why:

Router32Max.jpg
 

wagex

Chapstick Eating Premium Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
It's because it is a home consumer device, 99.9999% of homes aren't even going to have 32 devices connected to the wifi.

My advice is to either upgrade to ubiquiti or TP-link access points as suggested before, or buy a second separate router or access point dedicated for IOT devices... im suspecting that is what's eating up your router slots?

Why is there this limit? each client requires cpu and memory dedication, more so when traffic is flowing. They don't want the ram or cpu in the router being overloaded as they aren't that powerful as to provide the best experience for the devices that ARE connected.

The TP-link access points I use at home have a maximum of 150 concurrent connections each and I have two configured as a mesh network. Ubiquity i believe has a 150 client cap as well. READ: these are access points not routers.
EnGneius makes some access points with up to 400 clients. Not sure how many you are looking to add.

a wifi range extender might add to the connections because it would turn one connection on the router into multiple, though i advice against wifi extenders myself because they are a bandaid and are usually kinda slow.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
The devices are WiFi power sockets. The ONLY traffic is a one signal to turn them ON and a one signal to turn them OFF. At most one or two signals per day!!
So load is nowhere near being an issue! I think people assume 32 computers are being connected when these questions are asked?

So I have this: https://www.netgear.com/support/product/EX6200.aspx
It sounds like you have provided a perfect answer?

Anyone who has devices like WIFI power sockets and similar devices requiring virtually NO persistent traffic, all they have to do is connect them through one of these, and the total number of attached devices increases by thirty-two (32) because that is the maximum number of devices on the 2.4 GHz band, is that correct?



RangeExtender.jpg
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
So I can now report that all this worked!

Moving on:
It's because it is a home consumer device, 99.9999% of homes aren't even going to have 32 devices connected to the wifi.

You posted that and got thanked by a moderator for posting it - but I would like to post disagreement as a modern (large) house *easily* reaches 32 devices! WiFi light switches - WiFi power sockets - WiFi switches that turn ceiling fans On/Off. They can all be had for cheap on Black Friday or if you catch a sale... Every large modern house can reach 32 devices and easily!

So up to now, we've had this important limit of 32, because those switches cannot use 5GHz [so Tri-bands do not help no matter how many extra 5GHz bands they have]... so this brings up a logical question:

What's the device number limit on a "12-Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Router"
https://www.netgear.com/home/wifi/routers/rax120
How many 2.4GHz devices can be connected to a 12-Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Router? Still 32?

Someone tried to ask this question out there and got the usual replies that in no way mention actual device number limits and (just like in every thread about this) posters assume connected devices to be downloading data, which WiFi light and power switches do not do.
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
So I can now report that all this worked!

Moving on:


You posted that and got thanked by a moderator for posting it - but I would like to post disagreement as a modern (large) house *easily* reaches 32 devices! WiFi light switches - WiFi power sockets - WiFi switches that turn ceiling fans On/Off. They can all be had for cheap on Black Friday or if you catch a sale... Every large modern house can reach 32 devices and easily!

So up to now, we've had this important limit of 32, because those switches cannot use 5GHz [so Tri-bands do not help no matter how many extra 5GHz bands they have]... so this brings up a logical question:

What's the device number limit on a "12-Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Router"
https://www.netgear.com/home/wifi/routers/rax120
How many 2.4GHz devices can be connected to a 12-Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Router? Still 32?

Someone tried to ask this question out there and got the usual replies that in no way mention actual device number limits and (just like in every thread about this) posters assume connected devices to be downloading data, which WiFi light and power switches do not do.
Counter point, most houses that large and with that many switches and such will either have range extenders and/or be using a mesh network, putting their max concurrent devices way past the threshold of 32.

Take a family of 4. Assume each person has a phone, laptop or tablet, a smart tv, a smart switch, and an Xbox or similar. We'll also assume those devices can only use 2.4GHz. That's still only 20 devices in the house...

 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Thank you for bringing this up! It is really something I never considered/never had to consider. Good to know!!! :thup:

In my house, I have a total of 23 devices connected to WiFi. Of those 23 devices, 6 are connected to the 2.4 GHz band (some 5 GHz capable, but do not need the bandwidth so I put it on 2.4 GHz). I too would imagine that an overwhelming majority of users do not run into this as much as you feel they do. So far, out of the staff here, I have the most devices attached (in my 2,500 sq ft, 2 floor + finished basement home) among the staff (16 is the next highest). If you have a 'large' house and want to attach that many devices, regardless of black Friday deals that is going to cost an arm and a leg (I'm thinking 20 devices on 2.4 Ghz band with 12 existing - seemingly highly inflated, that guess)... and I'd imagine you would have more than one AP anyway. I guess I disagree with it being *easy* to do. There is the expense and a fair amount of effort to reach that threshold.

There is this who says 10 is the average (does not distinguish between bands): https://www.statista.com/statistics...he survey, in,more than ten connected devices.

EDIT: I created this thread to see what our group of enthusiasts (not regular users, mind you) have going on. I'd be surprised if anyone hit 32 devices on 2.4 GHz.
https://www.overclockers.com/forums...nnected-to-your-network?p=8158307#post8158307

Now, this doesn't detract from your point that it is good to know this information/have it more readily available but wanted to frame the market a bit for a more realistic perspective.


FTR, red users are Admins, green are Moderators (blue seniors, yellow patreons).... though I'm not sure the relevance in making that distinction in the first place... it doesn't matter if an admin/mod or 'regular' user thanked it. Color/status/post count in this forum doesn't mean a thing. :)
 
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Janus67

Benching Team Leader
Joined
May 29, 2005
<--- the person with 16 devices, family of 4, 2 story+finished basement 2300sqft house.

We haven't gone to any new fangled wifi plugs/light bulbs/switches/etc. But I have 3 APs in a mesh so that limit is unseen.
 

wagex

Chapstick Eating Premium Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
The devices are WiFi power sockets. The ONLY traffic is a one signal to turn them ON and a one signal to turn them OFF. At most one or two signals per day!!
So load is nowhere near being an issue! I think people assume 32 computers are being connected when these questions are asked?

Yes, that is what an IOT device is (light switches ect) which is what i assumed (and posted that i assumed) was taking up all your slots. yes they use very little bandwidth, but that is not what companies design their devices for, they design for the worst case scenario, someone trying to hook up 32 gaming pc's or multiple devices with a gigabit internet connection, yes in YOUR instance it's just little dinky devices that use almost nothing. but you cant expect them to design their router specific to you needs.

Maybe contact netgear and see if they can create a model c627627 just for you with the extra connections you need. Or just do the normal thing and buy one that already supports what you need. Your post here isn't going to make netgear change their limits, you have 32, if you want more there have been plenty of suggestions on how to overcome this limit.

It's like buying a low end consumer motherboard then complaining because it only has one m.2 slot when you need 2. Buy the gear you need.
 

WhitehawkEQ

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
In the Router, using DHCP the router has a set range of IP's it will hand out to network devices (wired or WIFI), you can go in and change that to a larger range. As I only have 1 device that connects to WIFI I can't say if this will help you or not, you can try :)
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Take a family of 4. Assume each person has a phone, laptop or tablet, a smart tv, a smart switch, and an Xbox or similar. We'll also assume those devices can only use 2.4GHz. That's still only 20 devices in the house...

Light switches, power sockets, ceiling fans, lamps, thermostats, security cameras, door bells, anything in the Google sphere makes up the 12 added to the 20 you mentioned. Easily more than 32 for anyone who starts automating their home. Once you start automating your home - you too will see ;)

In the Router, using DHCP the router has a set range of IP's it will hand out to network devices (wired or WIFI), you can go in and change that to a larger range. As I only have 1 device that connects to WIFI I can't say if this will help you or not, you can try :)

That would be a great experiment!


So here's the deal. On the internet my question has been asked before. The threads asking this out there tend to turn into a torrent of posts that have nothing to do with device limits and interestingly turn into post fests of
"meh who needs that!?! I certainly don't! Why would you need this!!? Nobody needs this!" :confused: :) :D :bday: :cool:

There used to be one sanctuary away from those kinds of forums: overclockers forums.
Embracing discussion on things EXACTLY LIKE THIS is what should be the mission of this forum - just like it used to be!
I leave you to ponder on the concepts of "Posts that question theoretical discussion" vs. "Posts that ENCOURAGE discussion."


So the limit is 32.
Here's where I would like this thread to go from here: us talking about if that limit of 32 is also present in the new gen of routers costing half a grand like this one:
https://www.netgear.com/home/wifi/routers/rax120

I tried to connect a laptop and couldn't and then tried to connect a phone at got a "temporarily full" WiFi message which I've never seen before and I imagine most of us haven't, which lead me to this discovery the limit of 32.

I would like this thread to go to someone explaining why it appears that I had more than thirty two 2.4GHz devices actively connected before I reached the limit when I got that WiFi error message saying that slots were "temporarily full".

More than 32 devices with no extenders
THESE WERE ACTIVE CONNECTIONS ONLY on the 2.4GHz band:

Connected_2.4GHz.jpg
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
All routers have a limit of 32 per band, which isn't limited to manufacturer or model. It isn't even worth discussing because it's a limit of the technology, not of a product. Well, unless you go to commercial equipment.
If you want more connections, use access points, a mesh network, or wired connections. This isn't a difficult solution or anything that needs a long discussion, because that's what people who have this many devices, or who are network engineers for large locations, do.
 
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hokiealumnus

Water Cooled Moderator
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
There used to be one sanctuary away from those kinds of forums: overclockers forums.
Embracing discussion on things EXACTLY LIKE THIS is what should be the mission of this forum - just like it used to be!
I leave you to ponder on the concepts of "Posts that question theoretical discussion" vs. "Posts that ENCOURAGE discussion."
Sure, the forum existed and still exists to discuss all kinds of answers to all kinds of interesting problems. Who actually answers the "I WANNA USE SUB-ZERO COOLING WITH NO INSULATION AND HAVE NO IDEA HOW IT WORKS, HELP!!" with coherent, helpful information? People here.

Thing is, you posted a question and an answer was given. Your very first response to that answer was, "Help me understand my existing situation first, will you?"

Question asked, question attempted to be answered, answer rejected with less than grateful response. Everything after that point stems from that rejection of attempted help.

The answers that have been given are very simple, straightforward, and astute:
If you want more connections, use access points, a mesh network, or wired connections.
You just rejected them, because you do not like them. The only real answer to your question is:
Maybe contact netgear and see if they can create a model c627627 just for you with the extra connections you need.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Thank you for the links.

I am not rejecting answers. I am grateful for them. I think you raise a valid point that I need to express my gratitude overtly and clearly and to modify the wording in my posts. I will do that in the future.


Why does the screen shot above show more than 32 functioning connected 2.4GHz devices with no extender being used?
Is it because only 32 of them are really connected? If I press on more than 32 buttons and get a response from more than 32 of them, then wouldn't that lead us back to the question:
Why does the screen shot above show more than 32 functioning connected 2.4GHz devices with no extender being used?


I am respectfully asking you all to neither make this the forum mission, nor to close this thread over:
This isn't... anything that needs a long discussion, because that's what people who... are network engineers for large locations, do.
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Thank you for the links.

I am not rejecting answers. I am grateful for them. I think you raise a valid point that I need to express my gratitude overtly and clearly and to modify the wording in my posts. I will do that in the future.


Why does the screen shot above show more than 32 functioning connected 2.4GHz devices with no extender being used?
Is it because only 32 of them are really connected? If I press on more than 32 buttons and get a response from more than 32 of them, then wouldn't that lead us back to the question:
Why does the screen shot above show more than 32 functioning connected 2.4GHz devices with no extender being used?


I am respectfully asking you all to neither make this the forum mission, nor to close this thread over:

You show more than 32 connections because either:
a) Because a lot of IoT devices are always connected, whether in use or not. Things like computers, printers, etc are not always connected. That frees up the spot on the band for other devices.
b) Some of those devices are utilizing 5GHz.

Unless things go sideways, it won't get closed.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Thank you. 5GHz connections are listed separately - they are all 2.4Ghz connections.
Janus67's links bring these very useful gems about why someone else ALSO had more than 32 devices connected to a single 2.4GHz band:

"Netgear contradicts their own statement on the maximum number of clients per band, reading between the lines they SUGGEST a maximum of 32 devices per band, doing... math suggests you already have quite a bit more than 32 connected, it's not a fixed setting."

and this useful post:

"There is no fixed maximum number of wifi clients allowed, this is true of every brand (up to some arbitrary high number at least)."


They also post that it is better to have another ACCESS POINT than to have an EXTENDER.


So my device can be an extender or an access point.
If used as an access point, where is it connected to, the existing one router or the cable company's modem where the router is connected to? Which brings the question, can two routers be used?
 

Janus67

Benching Team Leader
Joined
May 29, 2005
You can use another router, set up as another access point, with DHCP/routing turned off. You don't want two DHCP servers on your network or they can't talk with each other.

The main dif between an access point and an extender is that an extender immediately takes off 50% of the available bandwidth (IIRC).