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Tri-Band Router reached the maximum number of connected devices, now what?

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OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Where is the second router/access point connected to? The existing one router or the cable company's modem where the router is connected to?
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Where is the second router/access point connected to? The existing one router or the cable company's modem where the router is connected to?

My home setup is:
Modem -> Router -> Switch -> Access Point(s)

Your current router is a combination of router/switch/AP, so just plug in a second router and put it in Access Point mode in the settings and you'll be good to go.

Alternatively, if you want to step up to higher-level equipment, go for one of the two below:
1) (this is what I've done) build a PFSense box for your router, get a good switch (I have a Dell PowerConnect), and some Ubiquiti Access Points.
2) get something like the full setup from Ubiquiti of router (they call it a security gateway), switch, and Access Points.

Either of those, you'll be able to measure the uptime in weeks or months rather than in days like most consumer-grade hardware.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Thank you.
I am on a copper connection that downloads a maximum of 0.7 MB/s or so.

I broadcast to house seven Audio Chromecasts. And control home power switches and lights, is your suggestion to change equipment also valid for that purpose?
 
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WhitehawkEQ

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
See how many of those you can assign a static IP address to to free up some DHCP slots. There should be a useable range of 253 but DHCP is set to a smaller range to hand out IP's.
I have 11 PC's wired (13 total, 2 not hooked up) setup with static IP's below 192.168.1.200, the range I gave my router is 192.169.1.200 to 192.168.1.254, my phone uses DHCP so when my phone is on it gets 192.168.1.201 for it's IP address.

Pic below is from my router manual.

dhcp.jpg
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
It took me a while to finish switching devices to the Extender. I freed up a lot of slots.

Is the purpose of this to increase the number of devices able to connect *without* the extender? If yes, I would love to find out the pros & cons of this method vs. using an Extender!
 

WhitehawkEQ

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
It took me a while to finish switching devices to the Extender. I freed up a lot of slots.

Is the purpose of this to increase the number of devices able to connect *without* the extender? If yes, I would love to find out the pros & cons of this method vs. using an Extender!

If you freed up some slots then great, anyway works as long as your inside the rules for the router :) :thup:
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
So you posted a way to do what an Extender does, but without using an Extender. Thank you!
An extender allowed me to extend my reach into my barn as a bonus so that is what believe I should stick with for that reason. But thank you for posting that.

I have a couple of questions. ATMINSIDE posted a reason for an equipment swap being "....you'll be able to measure the uptime in weeks or months rather than in days like most consumer-grade hardware." I am a little confused, uptime? As opposed to downtime - what is down time? Is it when your internet completely goes out? Does that tend to happen with consumer-grade hardware?

And the other question is, my router was on the expensive side.
Netgear R7960P a.k.a. Nighthawk X6S AC3600 Tri-Band WiFi Router
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/R7960P.aspx

If I got another similar product like a WiFi Range extender like this one:
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/EX6200.aspx

Setting it up as an Access Point so that I would then have my router, my extender AND a third piece of hardware, an Access Point... what practical everyday improvements would I benefit from, now that I no longer have a device limit problem, because the Extender took care of that?

In other words, what would now an Access Point do for me?
And my first question was about the total equipment swap ATMINSIDE suggested.
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
What I mean by uptime is how long I go without having to restart my router. Something that I had to commonly do with routers prior to moving to PFSense.

Not sure why you'd use a WiFi extender when you can use an access point. A WiFi extender typically comes with a lot of latency and lower bandwidth due to the fact it isn't being run via a wired connection.

So your isp only gives you 0.7mbps download?

 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
I live in the country where there is only copper wire, therefore the maximum download speeds are 700 kb/s.

I do not recall needing to restart my router. Provided that is true, would that negate the need for an equipment switch?
Even if I didn't need to - it sounds like it is a good idea to manually press that router reset button once in a while? How often?

You brought up an excellent point about the Extender! Understanding your point is crucial to this thread.
So this is the extender:
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/EX6200.aspx

I placed it on the outer edge of my living room towards the barn. My living room is 85 feet in one direction.
I thought I could accomplish two things by using it as an Extender:
1. Increase the max number of attached 2.4GHz devices.
2. Make my barn Wi-Fi switches and power sockets easier to reach since it should extend the strength of the signal, if used as an Extender and all :)

Now, only *after* I completed the lengthy Extender setup and accomplishing my goal of freeing up 2.4GHz slots, did I find out the virtues of it being used as an Access Point instead.


So then my conclusion was, keep it as an Extender, on account of the barn signal surely being strengthened.
And maybe buy another similar device and use that second device as an Access Point.


But now of course, having resolved my original problem of adding more devices, my options are:


1. Leave things be now as it all works.
2. Switch equipment. [I ask myself, why, if Router almost never needs resetting.]
3. Switch from Extender to Access Point [I ask myself, why, if Extender strengthens the Barn signal.]
4. Keep the Extender and add an Access Point. [Pros?... any cons of doing this?]

I also think that the manual editing of settings WhitehawkEQ posted above is interesting and was hoping someone would post comments because it appears that this question comes to mind: why would we buy an Extender if this can be done in settings, I mean if your sole objective were to increase max number of devices? Why not just do WhitehawkEQ's method [thank you WhitehawkEQ], if you know how. Like I said I already completed the lengthy Extender setup, or else I would have tried this myself. Too many questions, I know.
 
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ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
I live in the country where there is only copper wire, therefore the maximum download speeds are 700 kb/s.
I'm also out in the country, but Spectrum still gets 200Mbps to my home, which is why I was curious.

I do not recall needing to restart my router. Provided that is true, would that negate the need for an equipment switch? A switch just adds ports to a router, so if you need more Ethernet ports, you'd get a switch.
Even if I didn't need to - it sounds like it is a good idea to manually press that router reset button once in a while? How often? Not unless you are having issues.

You brought up an excellent point about the Extender! Understanding your point is crucial to this thread.
So this is the extender:
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/EX6200.aspx

I placed it on the outer edge of my living room towards the barn. My living room is 85 feet in one direction.
I thought I could accomplish two things by using it as an Extender:
1. Increase the max number of attached 2.4GHz devices.
2. Make my barn Wi-Fi switches and power sockets easier to reach since it should extend the strength of the signal, if used as an Extender and all :)

Now, only *after* I completed the lengthy Extender setup and accomplishing my goal of freeing up 2.4GHz slots, did I find out the virtues of it being used as an Access Point instead.


So then my conclusion was, keep it as an Extender, on account of the barn signal surely being strengthened.
And maybe buy another similar device and use that second device as an Access Point.


But now of course, having resolved my original problem of adding more devices, my options are:


1. Leave things be now as it all works. If it all works for you, why not?
2. Switch equipment. [I ask myself, why, if Router almost never needs resetting.] This would be the solution if you are having frequent router resets, etc.
3. Switch from Extender to Access Point [I ask myself, why, if Extender strengthens the Barn signal.] This would reduce latency (Extender is not wired in, Access Point is wired in) if that is a concern, also Access Points typically provide better coverage than an Extender.
4. Keep the Extender and add an Access Point. [Pros?... any cons of doing this?] I wouldn't worry about doing this, honestly. They are accomplishing the same thing just that one is wired to the router and the other isn't.

I also think that the manual editing of settings WhitehawkEQ posted above is interesting and was hoping someone would post comments because it appears that this question comes to mind: why would we buy an Extender if this can be done in settings, I mean if your sole objective were to increase max number of devices? Why not just do WhitehawkEQ's method [thank you WhitehawkEQ], if you know how. Like I said I already completed the lengthy Extender setup, or else I would have tried this myself. Too many questions, I know.

Added some comments in red, hope that helps.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Thank you.
To anyone else reading this - RESET your cable company modem - not just your router, that just happened to me, some devices had a problem acquiring an IP address - router resets didn't help, but resetting the cable company's modem - that solved the problem. This should be obvious, but sometimes people may forget.

So on the Access Point vs. Extender. Sometimes you can't use the device as an Access Point if I you want to improve the reach of the signal to your barn, I mean I must place it closer to the wall toward the barn. I can't do that if it were used as an Access Point because that would mean it has to be physically in the same location where the router is, and that would mean away from the part of my polygamous compound facing the barn! :D
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Thank you.
To anyone else reading this - RESET your cable company modem - not just your router, that just happened to me, some devices had a problem acquiring an IP address - router resets didn't help, but resetting the cable company's modem - that solved the problem. This should be obvious, but sometimes people may forget.

So on the Access Point vs. Extender. Sometimes you can't use the device as an Access Point if I you want to improve the reach of the signal to your barn, I mean I must place it closer to the wall toward the barn. I can't do that if it were used as an Access Point because that would mean it has to be physically in the same location where the router is, and that would mean away from the part of my polygamous compound facing the barn! :D

I assumed there was an understanding that with an Access Point being wired in would mean running an Ethernet cable to wherever the Access Point needed to be located (i.e. not directly beside your wireless router). This, in most cases, isn't something overly difficult or cost-prohibitive.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
My living room is 85 feet in one direction (to fit all my wives in).

I guess it would have to be drilled into the wall, ran over the attic, dropped down another wall and then drilled out...
Although the cost is just the cable - but logistically, it's a project for sure.

So if you would, please post (again if not too much to ask) the real world benefits of switching to Access Point from Extender for 0.7MB maximum internet download capacity, and perhaps how it relates to a scenario for someone else, namely very heavy internet usage.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
I still think you should post more detail on why Access Point and not Extender but I did more experimenting and tried to measure the signal strength.

After reaching the limit, I tried this: I took off antennas and reconnected them tight all the way on the Access Point.
This allowed (!!!) the signal to reach the router location so now I have all devices without the Extender - it is an Access Point!

Thank you!
 

Ben333

Folding for Team 32!
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
I'm with you on this c627... I do not disagree with your question. I often have passive \ low bandwidth devices in my network. Wired or wireless. My recommendation: Use older consumer gear, and more of it. Spread out the channels. Example, dust off that old WRT54G and use it for all the smart bulbs \ switches \ thermostats... run it at 2.4 (which is all it can do) and use a different channel than your main PC router does for 2.4. Gotta either get creative with the home-gamer gear, or go commercial... (hey, atleast there's a used market)
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
The biggest benefit of the Access Point over just a Wi-Fi Extender is the fact it is wired into your Router, rather than connecting to a wireless signal. Half the latency (because of only one wireless connection vs two), better bandwidth (if you actually have bandwidth at your home).

Regarding running Ethernet being a project, yes it is, but it isn't going to take you days on end to do it. I ran ~75ft the other day to my living room tv. Including cutting drywall, not waking up my kid during his nap, and putting up tools it took me about 2 hours to run it through three different attic spaces, staple it down, and finish all terminations with keystone wall plates.
 

WhitehawkEQ

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Don't forget that your WIFI speed will only be as fast as the slowest device on the WIFI.
For exp: a device with 802.11a 54Mbs, 802.11b 11Mbs, 802.11g 54Mbs, 802.11n 600Mbs and 802.11ac 1Gbs or better.
So if you have an old smart phone with 802.11b then no matter if you have 802.11ac, ax or xx, your speed will be slow as molasses. :)
 

Ben333

Folding for Team 32!
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
You are saying that if I have an all wifi G \ N network, but there is one wireless B 11mbps device, all devices will run @ 11mbps max??? I've never heard that one before.