Upgrade to Athlon II X2 or X3?

[OldSchoolNinja]

Wakirimas Forum Brothers,

Given some of the pricining I'm finding online I believe the time has come to upgrade my venerable system. Like many of you I need to spend every penny wisely. I am also interested in efficiency and economy of components. Having said that I do realize that to a large extent performance is relative to power. Currently my choice for best bang for the buck processor is:

AMD Athlon II X3 450 Rana 3.2GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core .....$54.00

I have read many reviews and this cpu is very well liked. Additionally the possibility exists of unlocking a fourth core (that may or may not be stable). I have seen commentary that states with 4 cores this is a Phenom by another name. I have also seen rather spirited commentary that even with 4 cores this is NOT a Phenom at all. Additionally some have said that unlocking the fourth core will access an L3 cache which doesn't exist on the stock 3 core offering. Any clarification on the above is welcomed.

Another interesting contender is:

AMD Athlon II X2 270 Regor 3.4GHz Socket AM3 65W Dual Core.....$55.00

Though a dual core, this a contender because:
a.) 3.4 Ghz
b.) 2 x 1MB L2 Cache
c.) 65W

Faster stock clock, more L2 Cache, and lower power consumption seem to put the 270 Regor ahead but it seems to good to be true. Also some have commented that some of the Athlon Dual Cores can unlock a 3rd and 4th core. I do not know if the 270 is one of those.

None of these has L3 cache (stock anyway). I have heard that for gaming performance L3 cache size is everthing and that it's even preferable to the best RAM on the market today. Is lack of L3 cache that much of a handicap?

My strategy is to invest more money in a better AM3 mobo and vid card and then I can upgrade the cpu's above in the future. I would like to keep my current psu which is another advantage to keep lower TDP for the cpu and spend it on the vid card and other items.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Old School Ninja

 

[azanimefan]

Hmmm... are you stuck on an AM3 board?

I think that's the big first question... cause I have issues with advising anyone to upgrade to 3 year old tech already at the end of it's lifecycle... I mean you're on a MB with an AGP slot...

wow... your pc is like a mirror image of my old OC'ed system, before it exploded.

I think you might see better results just stepping beyond that MB and video card.

I mean if you love amd, and money is a concern a trinity chip will give you everything you could want, for a low cost upgrade... they aren't terrible overall... and with a little overclocking will give you solid performance in line with an i3. better still you can save on the video card at first because a 2nd gen trinity will have a MUCH better onboard chip compared to your current AGP GPU

 

[RGone]

Pretty solid advice actually. And you don't buy a pig in a poke hoping to unlock hidden cores.

 

[OldSchoolNinja]

Wakirimas Gentlemen,

I understand that for many on these forums the Athlon series chips are ancient with laughable performance specs compared to the newer/newest AMD offerings. I do appreciate the advice on trying to maximize the power of an upgrade but I do have finite resources to work with. My research has led me to the Athlon II series chips as a nice upgrade for what I do with my rig, particularly for the money involved.

I did consider the APUs but decided against them for a couple of reasons:
1.) Proprietary motherboard series - FM Socket. This is APU specific as I understand and cannot accept traditional CPUs.
2.) High Speed Memory Problems (1833Mhz) - The units must be overclokced to run what is supposedly a stock memory speed. This can't be a good sign.
3.) Integrated Graphics - Generally speaking IG on die or on mobos have traditionally been viewed as much inferior across the board when compared to dedicated card graphics

I am seeking enlightenment on the Athlon series cpus per my first post. As far as the "unlocking" of cores is concerned I am not considering the Athlon II for that reason but I am curious about the phenomenon. If you get an additional core or two to play around with that's fine, if not then that's fine too. It wouldn't affect my decision on the cpus I'm looking at.

I appreciate your time and help.

Sincerely,

Old School Ninja

 

[TeknoBug]

The Phenom II X4 955BE is still out there for sale but is around $90-95, very valuable upgrade if you're stuck with AM3. For socket A, you don't have many choices.

Don't waste $55 for those CPU.

About the APU, it's actually a pretty awesome architecture, I built a few and the A10-5800K is a beast if you know what you're doing.

 

[azanimefan]

well, i can get where you're coming from.

I still think what you're thinking about doing is the equivalent of tossing money out your window. Right now, just looking at your system, even a cpu upgrade will do little for your gaming experience... that video card is ancient.

While you want to dismiss the APU, its onboard GPU is lightyears better then your AGP offering (and when i say lightyears, I'm talking approximately 6 or 7 years more advanced then your current GPU). Its not a top of the line GPU by any stretch of the imagination, but on an Oldschool monitor (which I'm assuming you have, based on your pc's specs) it will be able to run most modern games at high detail at your "likely" resolutions.

This is how i see it.

In order for you to strech out the lifespan of your MB, in addition to getting that new CPU for $70 you'll need a "better" GPU in the AGP camp... and not many of those are around anymore... maybe you could get an old HD3870 or something online... for another 30-50 bucks. That will get you what amounts to 1/6 the PC a simple A10-5800k could field.

Granted the A10-5800k will run you about 100-110, you'll need a MB for another 60, and ram for 30-60... so you will be looking at 220-300 for the upgrade... vs 120 or so for your system.

That said i can't advise spending 120 on upgrading a system like yours to those inferior levels. Atleast the APU could play most modern games, and in the future you could spring for a good GPU and really punch up the performance.

 

[OldSchoolNinja]

Wakirimas Forum Brothers,

Perhaps my use of the term upgrade has caused some confusion. To me it is an upgrade as I will retain my entire system with the exception of the MB, CPU, GPU, and Memory. Arguably that is the entire system .

The Athlon XP3200 was the top of the Socket A line so there is no real upgrade there. So that means new cpu and mobo. The GPU is outdated in technology and slot form so that goes bye bye too.

As far as AM3 systems. those seem to be the most prevalent in use today. Perhaps an AM3+ would be more appropriate if it's backwards compatible with AM3 components. And given the current situation AMD is in there may not be a lot to choose from going forward. I am still sticking with AMD and doing my part to keep the ship afloat.

As far as power consumption I've done some research over the past several months. I never gave a thought to power consumption before - bigger is better is typically the performance mantra. That's fine but when you do the math you find that more power = more operating cost. I wish I still had the link but there was a site that had several example system builds with their power consumption and pricing for that consumption per hour. It was eye opening. I had never even considered this hidden cost.

So my current portfolio for the "upgrade" is an Athlon II with AM3 (or AM3+) mobo, DDR3 memory, and Radeon HD 6670. Based on the performance specs I've seen this setup should be somewhat respectable for most environments. Currently these items can be had for $194.00 plus shipping. There is room to upgrade the cpu and the vid card in the future.

However as good as this deal seems to me I am obliged to ask you guys to kick the tires on it. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing or not understanding that makes this a faux "deal".

I certainly appreciate all of your time and advice.

Sincerely,

Old School Ninja

 

[Trance4c]

I hear what your getting at...

It is a decent idea, albeit old, but I still like these setups. The X3 at a minimum, for the difference in price of those older chips the X2 is not something you should be considering. Besides, you may be a lucky X3 that unlocks an extra core, it could be a lottery bonus. I don't believe the lack of L3 cache between these chips are really all that big a factor, it is more the fact that most modern setups at a minimum are using 4 cores.

In the long term, you may consider CPU and GPU upgrades with this setup and this will give you a way to get to those but even those upgrades by today's standards are already outdated. So while you are considering the cheapest route, just know that a little bit more spent could yield you a better result now and save you money on that next CPU and GPU upgrade step, as you may never really consider them giving the nature of the dated hardware.

You are right, this should be somewhat respectable, all depends on what your using it for. If your not using a lot of current software, you should be fine but if you are then this setup is no longer an option. All depends on what you intend to use it for, so I would not talk you out of it but I wouldn't suggest it either.

 

[azanimefan]

So my current portfolio for the "upgrade" is an Athlon II with AM3 (or AM3+) mobo, DDR3 memory, and Radeon HD 6670. Based on the performance specs I've seen this setup should be somewhat respectable for most environments. Currently these items can be had for $194.00 plus shipping. There is room to upgrade the cpu and the vid card in the future.

However as good as this deal seems to me I am obliged to ask you guys to kick the tires on it. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing or not understanding that makes this a faux "deal".

now this makes more sense... (as an fyi, the onboard GPU with an A10-5800k is a Radeon hd 6670 equivalent... just a heads up)

so your price level for an upgrade is roughly $200... forgive me for doing the build, I'd just like clarity in this discussion. I chose that particular GPU because you can xfire it, and the MB supports xfire


CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 270 3.4GHz Dual-Core Processor ($54.98 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus M5A78L-M LX PLUS Micro ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($56.40 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Corsair XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($28.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Diamond Radeon HD 6670 1GB Video Card ($99.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $240.36

Granted I built it a little more expensive thenyou did just because I thought you'd like the option to upgrade a few things (such as the CPU to one of the new FX).

Now... this is where we have our disagreement. That CPU is 3 years old, the GPU is 2-3 years old. The MB is newer... and is specially made to unlock those cores of yours, but what you're talking about is making a system that's a step bellow what you could with a low end intel or APU.

here are some examples of systems with more upside, and better performance out of the gate from what you've cobbled together.

CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A75 Pro4-M Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($81.97 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($54.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $256.95

that mb supports xfire, and this system not only is comparable, to faster then the first system, but doubles the ram all for about the same price... its also a newer MB with more modern features to give you a lot more life out of the system. Furthermore, the onboard GPU is the equal of the one you have in your intended system. What's wild is you could xfire the onboard GPU with a hd6670... something to think about atleast.

Now for another option...

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($82.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Asus M5A78L-M LX PLUS Micro ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($56.40 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Corsair XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($28.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Diamond Radeon HD 6670 1GB Video Card ($99.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $268.37

You'll notice this is the same as your preferred build... only $20... and with a notably better CPU.

 

[TeknoBug]

Or an FM2 A55 mobo for $50-60 and 8GB of ram for $35 which comes to around $210.

 

[azanimefan]

Or an FM2 A55 mobo for $50-60 and 8GB of ram for $35 which comes to around $210.

yep. you can easily build an a10 system for less then i did. I just wanted to highlight, that for about the same money you could build a "feature rich" trinity system for about the same money. If i went barebones (well, it's barebones with xfire support) like i did with the PhenomII and AthlonII builds i could easily come in at LESS money. Just as you can build the PhenomII/AthlonII builds without xfire for less (something i wouldn't suggest, as it will limit your upgrade possibilities down the road)

 

[OldSchoolNinja]

Wakirimas All,

I have done some re-thinking and soul searching based upon all of your commentary. Please see my "upgrade" system in the New Hardware Section and let me know what you think.

Teknobug - I would still like a plan "B". Could you help me configure a "beast" APU? I can swing for the top end of the line and add from there.

Sincerely,

Old School Ninja