Upgrading to 32GB for DCS World

[Zerileous]

So this is something coming up on my mind, as I recently have dipped my toes into playing DCS online (I finally learned how to use an airplane effectively). System specs are in sig. I had noticed a few incidents of severe stuttering, and chalked it up to lag, until I saw a post saying that 32GB was needed to play online. I have noticed that things seem to be more CPU constrained (GPU load frequently in the 80% range with a single CPU thread loaded to 90%), but FPS is still totally playable. I also tried to load the game last night with a bunch of Firefox tabs open, but the game just hung/crashed. No memory warnings though. Here is a screenshot of my memory section of HWiNFO64 (not currently playing but look at the max values):



I can also confirm that playing multiplayer memory usage is between 12GB-14GB. Does this look like a problem, or should I expect to see usage of 15GB or greater before deciding that I need more memory? I'm guessing that between other discord/chat apps, more advanced planes, etc, the time is going to come sooner or later, so I'm planning for it now.

I'm thinking about adding another kit of 2x8 GB CL14 3200MHz (b-die) trident Z with the same SKU (actually the white version for a cool stripe effect). I know that this would tax the memory controller of my 2600X, but I'd be glad to throw another 100mv it's way if needed (right now it's getting just under 1.0V). If I wanted to bench at 3600MHz+ I could just pull the extra sticks out.

I know that 4 sticks can be tough on Ryzen 2, plus it wouldn't truly be a matched kit. So I would also consider an option of simply upgrading to the 3600 along with adding the two sticks. I'm not sure the IPC difference is worth it alone, but it would also make it easier to run 4 sticks. I'd rather wait for the final AM4 CPU releases to upgrade though. The other option is getting a kit of (probably micron E) 2x16GB 3600MHz CL 16-18-18 and pulling the b-die out of my system. I could keep it around for benching or sell it.

In other words, can I run a non-matched set of 8GBx4 b-die at 3200MHz CL14 on this CPU? Are all 3200MHz CL14 kits still b-die? Or am I crazy for even thinking of trying it. If I do try it and it goes poorly, will an upgrade to a 3600 save things, or just dig myself a deeper hole?

 

[Alaric]

(GPU load frequently in the 80% range with a single CPU thread loaded to 90%)

Other than the IPC increase from a Ryzen, it doesn't look like more cores will do any good. That game appears to be made for an Intel with good clock speed. I played around with DCS (not online) a little and my Skylake never got close to 90% on any core/thread.

 

[Zerileous]

Other than the IPC increase from a Ryzen, it doesn't look like more cores will do any good. That game appears to be made for an Intel with good clock speed. I played around with DCS (not online) a little and my Skylake never got close to 90% on any core/thread.

Yeah I have no problems keeping up with single player, it's totally on the GPU then. Online is totally different though. Either way it seems to be pretty well balanced between the GPU and CPU with the settings I have. Usually maintain about 80fps and both usually in the 90% range. I guess I could always disable a CCX and clock 4.4GHz too.

Don't blame you for just playing around a bit, it's a steep learning curve. Very frustrating at first, but now it's quite fun to blow up tanks with laser guided missiles.

 

[Alaric]

Free trial ran out and my Logitech joystick just wasn't up to the task.

Even as a Team Red cheerleader I still have to recommend an Intel for that game, given your single thread requirements. It looks like you could get away with a nicely clocked 7700k, though, so used might be a viable option for you.

 

[UltraTaco]

Is it still single threaded? I remember lomac giving me grief..

 

[Zerileous]

Alaric it's free now on Steam, although you only get two planes. One is a P-51 Mustang variant which is a lot of fun to fly. The other is a SU-25T, which is a Russian subsonic ground attack aircraft, similar in role to the A-10 (CAS) which is what I've been playing a lot of now. You can also download a free community made A4 (another CAS/subsonic aircraft with substantially better performance than the SU-25T but with a lower payload, and it can also be flown on carrier missions).

UltraTaco Yeah the main engine stuff is still all on a single thread. They have added some stuff on to other threads but the main thread is still heavily loaded.

Are you seeing this as more of a CPU issue then? I'm pretty sure it's more of a memory problem, although I'm not certain that 14GB usage is a problem. Changing platforms isn't in the cards right now, but maybe more advanced planes will change my mind. I really just brought up the upgrade as a way to support 32GB of ram, if the current CPU wasn't able to do so.

 

[UltraTaco]

I doubt it's running short with 16gb. If it is, then it may fill up 32gb as well, just would take a little longer. Could be memory leak problem.
I guess you start running into issues sooner or later if you continue building up on old engine.:shruh:

 

[Zerileous]

Well it will use 14GB in a multiplayer game. Not a memory leak, just what it uses, at least for now. Someone mentioned that 32GB was required for online on r/hoggit so I started checking it out and I realized I was running pretty close. You'll also notice windows is dumping a lot of stuff into the page file at that point as well. I'm wondering how much headroom is needed before it starts impacting performance. 1GB? 2GB? 500MB? 500KB? If you know what I mean. Because really in a lot of situations neither the CPU or GPU are maxed out playing online, both between 80% (on the one thread) and 90%. But I'm not sure if this is just how Ryzen behaves playing a CPU bound game.

 

[Alaric]

Oh, I have no doubt that game will run better with 32 GB. I've actually heard that before (Here at OCF, in fact). I'm kind of surprised ED hasn't jumped in as I think he was part of the thread I'm referencing. My CPU recommendations were just based on your hitting 90% on a single core. That won't fix the RAM issue, though. I wish I could remember where that thread is. I'll poke around and see if I can find it with our less than great search engine.
I don't have Steam, but those are the two planes I had with my demo. The Frogfoot was...interesting. LOL

 

[Zerileous]

As interesting as flying a brick laden with bombs is, I'm sure. It's still a ton of fun to fly, but sometimes it sucks when you're faced with an IR SAM or a hill and you don't have the performance to avoid either. But I guess at that point you already failed on situational awareness.

For now I'm not going to be changing my main platform, I'm sure it would do a bit better with a high clocked quad, but this isn't a dedicated sim setup either. I think the 6 core Ryzen is a good balance right now. I did fire up FSX for a truly CPU bound experience, and the single core for FSX did sit at exactly 100%.

With my current aircraft, I feel like 16GB is adequate, if barely, however I'm planning a series of upgrades (mainly Track IR, a HOTAS throttle to go with my Thrustmaster T1600M stick, and planes) and I would like to see where a memory upgrade will fit in. So ultimately the question is should I add two sticks or get a totally new kit. Of course a kit of 32GB CL16 3200MHz is essentially the same price as a second kit of 16GB CL14 3200MHz, so I'm not sure if it's worth it, except for the improved memory overclocking of future generation CPUs. An in between option would be a 32GB CL16 3600MHz kit, although availability of those is lower.

 

[Alaric]

I'm a fan of the fastest memory I can reasonably afford, even though I did the opposite. Samsung B dies were cheap when I got my DDR4, so I figured I'd just OC the snot out of it. LOL

You mentioned a possible Ryzen upgrade, which has its own memory wish list compared to Intel. Tighter timings will be more desirable (and useful) on the Ryzen, and 3600 MHz is the highest "set-it-and-forget-it" speed there. The Gamers Nexus video showed them getting almost equal results from 3200 CL14 and 3600 CL16. With 4 sticks and AMD's historically weak IMC I'd probably lean towards the 3200 C14. With two sticks the 3600 MHz C16 seems more viable. That's my speculation but it would be nice to see someone jump in with some experience with both to yay or nay my thoughts there.

 

[Bustos]

If I were in your shoes, I’d probably get another 3200 CL14 kit. Make that mobo look complete. What are the odds of you needing more than 32gbs of RAM before DDR5 comes out?

 

[Zerileous]

Yeah I guess maybe it's a situation where nobody knows if it will work. The nice thing about the b-die is I know it will do 3600 C16 as well (well at least the sticks I already have - only hiccup being the non-matched set). It's either that or spend a bit more for a new kit of 3600 C16 but that seems actually a bit scarce with 16-18-18 or 16-19-19 being more prevalent than the 16-16-16 that the b-die should manage.

If/when I decide to upgrade the CPU, it will be a Ryzen 3 or 4. Right now I'm plenty satisfied with the current CPU, except I'm not sure it will be able to run the 4 sticks. I guess realistically my options are to try my luck with the 4 sticks non-matched b-die, or get a set of 3600 CL18 or 3200 CL 16 in a 2x16 config.

 

[Zerileous]

I knew I remembered seeing something about this in the past, and I'm a bit embarrassed that I failed to search it first. Of course I had other questions besides, "will 4 DIMMS work?" Either way I found this thread https://www.overclockers.com/forums...ilure-high-latency-etc)?highlight=dimms+ryzen. It turns out doing some other research the Taichi uses T-topology while many other x470 boards use daisy chaining. I believe this refers to the physical layout of the traces as either parallel or serial. I think its explains the success Custom90gt had with the Taichi. Same motherboard and same memory, just different CPU so I think it's worth trying.

 

[wingman99]

Are you getting gaming stalls where the PC runs out of memory and has to access the hard drive. If your not the amount of memory is fine.

 

[Zerileous]

yeah that is exactly the problem I think I was having wingman99. At least I think so. I was getting stuttering with neither CPU nor GPU fully loaded. I also used 15,900 MB a few times. Other times if the map was too busy it would just crash and not even load the game. The new sticks are installed and stress testing at XMP right now. SOC voltage is at 1.012V reported, set to something similar in BIOS. I also re-pasted my CPU. Someone mentioned it might be worth checking a while back, but I never did. I always assumed my temps were high because of the GPU in the loop and high DeltaT (like 20C) under load. Turns out I had pretty marginal coverage, maybe about the side of a dollar coin on the IHS. Re-pasted with ectotherm, we'll see how that does once I get PBO enabled.

 

[UltraTaco]

Coverage of a dollar coin?! That's huge! Diameter of dollar coin is a hair over one inch!! How big is the cpu?

 

[wingman99]

Post back if the 32GB of memory solves the game stalls.

 

[Zerileous]

I took a pic here. I'm probably bad at estimating things. Load temps seem about 10C lower.


No problems so far after a short session Wingman99. Max memory usage 18,825MB.

 

[Bustos]

Yeah, the 4 sticks look good there. Passing 16GBs! Affirms my choice of getting the 32GB set.