Using a 16TB WD Gold mechanical hard drive with TLER on Desktop without RAID - downsides?

[c627627]

Well I knew I saw this somewhere...
So they are both TLER drives.

And WD doesn't even make WD Black in 16TB capacities.


I guess I am just reluctant to completely dismiss the MTBF figure being larger for Golds, and not by a little, 2.5 times is a lot.
What bases do they have to predict Gold will last that much longer than Red Pro...


And by the way EarthDog, we are not comparing Seagates because at this time, their pricing does not compare, they are much more expensive, so they do not compete with current WD sale. They are not worth it at this time.

 

[don256us]

Can I trust the MTBF?​

Short answer: No


A hard drive’s MTBF, or mean time between failures, is an estimation of how long a hard drive will last. Some hard drive manufacturers advertise this figure as a way of showing how reliable a specific drive model is, which usually ranges between 1 million and 1.5 million hours.


A study by Carnegie Mellon University shows that MTBFs are greatly exaggerated. They suggest “a nominal annual failure rate of at most 0.88 percent.”

From: https://www.comparitech.com/blog/cloud-online-backup/how-long-do-hard-drives-last/

Post magically merged: Mar 29, 2022

The 5 year warranty is perhaps the longest in the industry right now and is good enough for me. I could care less about the MTBF if they still cover it. Again, I use parity as a means to protet my data so I can survive a drive failure. To be clear, I can survive 1 drive failure at a time and no more than 1. After 5 years I'd be looking to change it out anyways. The longer you go the more risk you build. Your risk tollerance comes into play around 3-5 years.

Post magically merged: Mar 29, 2022

With Unraid, I can keep track of SMART errors. When I start to see errors, I can look to see which drive I need to look into a replacement for. I do this type of check fairly regularly.

 

[don256us]

I don't think you made a bad choice. The more I look at it the less objection I see and my objection was never that great anyway. I think that you'll get a lot of good use from this drive and with a 512MB cache, it will back up smaller files very quickly. The 5-year warranty would keep me at ease for a long time too.

If you are relying on a single drive for your backup, then you inherit greater risk. When the drive starts to fail and if you don't catch is soon enough, then pulling that data *may* be hampered by the TLER function but this has always been a very focused argument and does not take into account the greater value of the drive itself. Keep an eye on SMART errors and be prepared for a different backup when they start to show and you may NEVER have an issue with or without TLER. Originally, I was thinking that the Red Pro did not have TLER but that was incorrect.

 

[c627627]

Yes.

My friendly counter point is that we are not trusting / looking at MTBF figure to mean 114 years.

We are looking at the MTBF figure to mean unknown value X whereby:
The same company, using the same test methods is officially claiming that one drive's figure is X and another drive's figure is 2.5X.

So whatever X is, the question is reduced to


IF

mtbf[Red Pro] = X

mtbf[Gold] = 2.5X


THEN mtbf[Gold] > mtbf[Red Pro]


Because if not, then the fundamental meaning behind MTBF is a lie.
It would be illegal.

They may have legal wiggle room to argue what X value is - but not legal wiggle room to lie that mtbf[Gold] > mtbf[Red Pro]

 

[don256us]

Of course it means something different but it may not correlate quite that simply. Again, I don't know. It could be a great shortcut to determin value but it may not. I catch a lot of grief on here when I say that 80+ certification = life in power supplies. My argument is that to get a higher 80+ certification means that you had to use higher quality parts and thus they could last longer. I know that 80+ doesn't mean that but I use it as a shortcut because... reasons.

MTBF might be the same way. It is a number that they can calculate and show as a difference but it's meaning may not actually be what we want it to be. I mean, 100 year or more MTBF? What can that really mean if we all know that no spinning drive will last anything near that time.

I get what you're saying about MTBF = x with "x" being some more realistic time frame and 2.5x must be better. I get it and that may be true. It also may not be true and I don't know.

 

[Archer0915]

I love my data. Single operation should be fine, until it is not. I take a proactive stance on this stuff.

What, exactly, will be on the drive?

I would not use it as a boot drive, I would not use it for running anything from. Simple storage but make sure it is not the only place you are using to store those items.

 

[Archer0915]

Yes.

My friendly counter point is that we are not trusting / looking at MTBF figure to mean 114 years.

We are looking at the MTBF figure to mean unknown value X whereby:
The same company, using the same test methods is officially claiming that one drive's figure is X and another drive's figure is 2.5X.

So whatever X is, the question is reduced to


IF

mtbf[Red Pro] = X

mtbf[Gold] = 2.5X


THEN mtbf[Gold] > mtbf[Red Pro]


Because if not, then the fundamental meaning behind MTBF is a lie.
It would be illegal.

They may have legal wiggle room to argue what X value is - but not legal wiggle room to lie that mtbf[Gold] > mtbf[Red Pro]

Both have the F! MTB really is just a comfort thing. I just took back a brand new WD blue because it was trash out of the box. It happens.

Failure happens.

But it is between not before, so new you expect something. DO NOT! Have all critical stuff in 2 places.

Also MTBF not TBF.

 

[c627627]

I've been using my WD 16TB Gold for a while.

I noticed that when I click to access there is a delay, I am guessing it's so it starts spinning, maybe it turns itself off after a few hours? Why is that?


My 2TB WD Black never has a delay. Is it because it is always spinning!? How does all this affect time before failure? Will 2TB Black last less because it appears to be always ready to be accessed instantaneously?

 

[EarthDog]

I'd imagine it not being a performance drive like your WD Black, it has settings to power down (with Window's permission) after XX # of mins by default. My WD Green does that too (but in my case, I don't care as it's cold storage anyway). You should be able to change that in the 'edit power plan' functions if it's idling too soon for you.

It's logical to assume their listed MTBF/warranty numbers are based on the drive's default behavior (plus other specific conditions) and not a best case 'if the user changes X'...so I doubt it changes anything between them on paper...it is what it is. I'd say it would shorten the lifespan (again using logic here - if it was meant to idle, it should... less/no idling = more stress on the motor/heads), but we'd be guessing, even more, trying to pin down what effect that has on the drive time-wise before it craps out.

EDIT: FYI on MTBF... from their own specs..................

...stick to the warranty period as that's concrete/guaranteed.