WARNING ATI users: Catalyst 3.8 can kill your Card / Monitor

[Dragonprince]

Heh! What kind of jet is that in your avatar? That thing looks sweet!! Is it sometype of airforce prototype? Looks like it came right out of one of my sci-fi games.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/91976_spyplane19.shtml

 

[Dragonprince]

Dang Dragonprince, you figured it out!!!! Our game is up. Me and all the other peeps who lost our monitors are just a bunch of scammers. We figured we'd take our $300+ monitors and put them to the test and see who could run theirs farthest out of spec before blowing. And when it blew, we all decided that we'd blame it on the ATI catalyst 3.8 drivers. SURELY they'd pay us without blinking an eye!! How did you ever figure it out??!?

Kudos to you Dragonprince!! I'll tell everyone else the game is up and that our little gambit failed

You have a truely marvilous wit...you've obviously missed your calling.
People are always trying BS scams to get something for nothing...or even worse , blaming others for thier mistakes. Facts of life...live with it.

 

[kct2]

I couldn't have said it better.

That's funny - since Ed said some of the same things I had said, things that made you assume I was some sort of ATI agent trying to discredit you, I'm suprised you feel that way.

I just find it so funny...

Lets see the similarities between his comments and mine:

Originally posted by kct2

I'm not saying there isn't something wrong, but it must be configuration specific, some common utility, installed program, other driver - something that is causing the driver to malfunction...

From Ed's article:

My suspicion is this actaully is a fairly limited problem which only occurs under a certain set of circumstances.

Seems pretty similar...

Originally posted by kct2
...the only way to determine that impact is to collect ALL the information, seemingly important or not.


There should be a survey - but is should collect all information, including:
windows version
windows service packs installed
directx version
PREVIOUS directx version (whether you went from 8.1 to 9.0, or 8.1 to 9.0b, etc)
current video driver version (omega or ATI)
previous video driver version
other installed components and their driver version
basic system config (motherboard, RAM, etc)
installed tweaking/overclocking/general system utilities/software
and card overclock/mod status.

I'm sure there are things I missed...

Originally posted by kct2
...any problem can be identified if the factors are carefully studied, and that forces you to investigate everything, no matter how insignificant it seems. If you keep going the way you are you will never find the actual cause, and have no chance of convincing ATI, or a court, of anything.

From Ed's Article:

Those with damaged/dead equipment are doing themselves no favors by not gathering information methodically about it to see if there may be any common factors among those who had equipment failure.
Things like the following:

Description of system:
OS Used:
Monitor(s) used. Was it a single or dual-monitor setup?
Speed at which video card was running:
Program/game that triggered the behavior and version:
Resolution/color depth/refresh rate of monitor before going into a game:
Resolution/color depth/refresh rate of game:
What resolution/color depth/number of monitors did the driver set by default?

There may be a few other appropriate questions which should be added.

I didn't preface it with a story about poisoned coffee, but I was making the same point.

I don't see one point where Ed's editorial and my posts in this thread differ. The only thing I don't like about it is he seems too trusting of the person making the bold statement that 183 monitors have been damaged without any proof, and without anyway to verify the claim. I'm not saying it isn't true - but he obviously had to do some leg work to determine EXACTLY 183 reports had been made, why not show that work? I'm sure everyone remembers math class - no credit if you don't show your work, I feel the same way about this.

 

[Dragonprince]

No disagreement, if you want to Post a fact finding thread, make it include the facts. You can't turn a blind eye and look at some of the info, you need all the info you can get. There's a TON of variables that may be the cause of this situation. THE ONLY way to seperate opinion from fact is to get all the facts, not just some of them.

Absolutely perfect response. Well done.

 

[Dragonprince]

Overclocking your video card has absolutely nothing to do with the refresh rate problem. Please furbish proof that changing your video cards clock rates affects your refresh rates. If you go over to Rage3D, you'll find peeps who haven't overclocked their cards one bit and they have lost their monitors.

Peace dude. You can find peeps that didnt OC there monitor and lost there video card .... some things are defective from the factory, some are caused by human error, some are caused by ignorance. The doubter's (myself included) are only saying that equipment dies every day. Ati says they can not find a problem, independent test sites cant find a problem either. In fact I believe I read that the vast majority of the supposed bad monitor reports all lead back to one guy that spammed a bunch of sites. If your monitor died then contact the maufacturer and ask for warranty service. If you think your ATi card caused the problem then send it to ATi and let them disect the thing and find out why it happened.

 

[kct2]

Hey, dragonprince...why not read all of the posts you missed, then respond in ONE reply? There is also a fancy 'EDIT' button - so you can add on to a post if find more old posts you need to dig up...sorry to be a jerk, but come on...you made 4 posts in 14 minutes.

 

[Dragonprince]

I should clarify... when I do see this happen, it's usually from other causes; mainly time causing various components to go out of spec. I've never seen an instance until today where a monitor has died from drivers forcing several out of range settings within a matter of seconds, as it sounds like is happening here.

The simple fact is, monitors are designed in anticipation of having these settings changed often. The case that some hardware driver might try to do this outside sync range several times in a few seconds wasn't always planned for. It's not poorly implemented, just unanticipated.

Hmmm. Well the thing is ATi's (and nVidia's for that matter) cards dont actually access refresh rates anyway. That is controlled by Windows which under XP defaults to a standard 60Hz rate. Back to a previous post of mine were I stated user error was most likely the blame...you can force "Windows" to use an unsupported refresh rate....video card drivers do not set the refresh rate...they tell Windows what you'd like to set it too... and if it's unsupported Windows just ignores the request. Possible that the Windows inf file might allow more rates than your monitor supports? I believ it is. Is this ATi's problem or Microsofts ? ....

 

[Dragonprince]

This just plain makes me mad , err , add my toasted 9500->9700 to the list

Now the drivers are killing video cards too ?

 

[Dragonprince]

dammit, why didn't i see this thread earlier??!!

i've been running a 9800np>pro bios flashed with the 3.7's for the past month with no problems, but formatted this past weekend because of virus/worm issues and decided to give the new 3.8's a try. was running fine until yesterday, i noticed some wierd artifacts when playing some movies that i've never noticed before. thought it might have been some heat issues so i shut down. today when i get home from work and just browsing around, i start getting massive artifacts, bars, and discolorations...figured it was a driver issue so i remove the drivers/use reg cleaner, etc...and reinstall the 3.7's. still not much difference. so i format and do a fresh install of windows with the 3.7's, it's much better now, but i still see a few artifacts here and there...but this is on my 2 month old dell 1901fp. i didn't think it was an lcd issue, but something is jacked up....

i've had such a bad rash of luck lately...i've had 2 power supplies blow in 2.5 weeks too. (1 antec 480tp, 1 enermax 550w)

OMG...multiple power supply failures and ATi f#$%ed up your monitor ? Someone slap me please.....

 

[Dragonprince]

Hey, dragonprince...why not read all of the posts you missed, then respond in ONE reply? There is also a fancy 'EDIT' button - so you can add on to a post if find more old posts you need to dig up...sorry to be a jerk, but come on...you made 4 posts in 14 minutes.

I didnt realize there was a limit to how many people I was allowed to converse with in an open format...did the rules change about responding to posts ?

 

[Evnas]

I didnt realize there was a limit to how many people I was allowed to converse with in an open format...did the rules change about responding to posts ?

Putting each quote in a different post qualifies you as a spammer, which IS against the rules Just use the edit button and add the new quote to the post you just made...makes it easier on people to read, and its not as annoying

 

[Silversinksam]

Ed needs to get more specific in his article today. He claims he found 183 cases of damaged monitors/cards. This contradicts Cynic's post, and Cynic did get specific about where he got the info he draws his conclusions from. I find this topic very interesting, but I'm not going to wade through all of the threads around.
(maybe SSS can give Ed a bit of prodding for us?)

peace.
unloaded

That is not what Ed Said,

That count of 183 may have more than a few duplicates, but this is not a matter of one or three people somehow furiously cloning themselves into an army.

http://www.overclockers.com/articles853/index02.asp

I also agree with just about everything Ed did say. I've said all along that we need all the facts and pc configurations to determine the exact cause of the problem.

I didnt realize there was a limit to how many people I was allowed to converse with in an open format...did the rules change about responding to posts ?

Its Ok relax, Look what I am doing, I responded to one person and resonding to another in the same post. This makes it less cluttered, its no big deal but it is the prefered method, eventually you will get the hang of it

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Peace dude. You can find peeps that didnt OC there monitor and lost there video card .... some things are defective from the factory, some are caused by human error, some are caused by ignorance. The doubter's (myself included) are only saying that equipment dies every day. Ati says they can not find a problem, independent test sites cant find a problem either. In fact I believe I read that the vast majority of the supposed bad monitor reports all lead back to one guy that spammed a bunch of sites. If your monitor died then contact the maufacturer and ask for warranty service. If you think your ATi card caused the problem then send it to ATi and let them disect the thing and find out why it happened.

You don't even read the most important posts do you? You just take what jumps out at you and disregard the rest. I'll even repost it for you most of the important parts for you since you're having trouble.

"I'm willing to call all you BSers out that don't know what you're talking about. Put your money where your mouth is. I'm currently using a MagView 17" monitor (also built in 2000) that I swapped out after my Sun monitor died. I was experienceing the same symptoms with it until I went back to 3.7 Cats. Luckily I switched in time as it's still alive. I'm willing to have someone in my area act as a witness (forum member obviously, one that both sides can trust) and I'll reinstall the 3.8 cats and then they can observe this monitor eventually die (I'd give it 3 weeks at most). The monitor can stay at this person's house for the entire test. If it does die, then all you naysayers get to foot the bill for this monitor and the Sun I just lost. You can prepay SilverSinkSam and if my monitor doesn't die within that time, he'll send you back your money, if it does, then he forwards the money to me. If it doesn't die, I'll gladly come here and post and apologize to everyone for being paranoid.

So there you have it, put up or shut up."


"I just spent about 45 minutes on the phone with ATI tech support. I spoke to first Louis Lam. I told him of my issue and he immediately told me he would transfer me to senior tech support where I spoke to Gabriel (she would not give me her last name, but she was a nice gal). Gabriel told me she hadn't heard of the issue. I specifically asked her if overclocking or core/memory frequency can affect refresh rates. She hesitated and said she'd have to ask her product specialist who is Anthony (once again, no last name, just that he's the only Anthony there). Per Gabriel, per Anthony NO , core/memory frequency has NO affect on refresh rate. I was then referred to the same Steve Botelho, so now I'm confident that at least he's a true, living being.

If anyone thinks I'm making this up, I'll have my cell phone bill to Canada to prove it."


"OK guys, I just spoke to Richard Morrison, who was the first person to admit that they've had complaints.........which is important.......everyone else denied even of hearing of complaints, which is ludicrous.

He is going to send me out either a Sapphire 9500np or if he can't find that, he'll send me an ATI9500 pro. I am to send him my 9500np for their engineers to test. Based on their findings, I'll be notified whether or not they feel their drivers/equipment caused my monitor failure.

A senior tech will be contacting me shortly to ask me some questions.

I don't know if I'll speak on this issue further, pending the outcome, I guess we'll see."

"Thanks Sam, they have given me an RMA# and my replacement is being shipped out as I write this. I'm still concerned as they didn't ask too much information about my monitor.

EDIT: I just got a call back, they now want me to send my monitor to them as well!! This looks encouraging. Sure glad they're footing the bill for shipping a 50 pound monitor"

I love the rebuttals like:

"Surely ATI would have tested blah blah blah to insure that this wouldnt' happen"

"Well, ATI says that there isn't a problem so............."

Have you heard of things like space shuttle o-rings, space shuttle tiles, the Hubble telescope, Mars lander? Ever heard of these? Ya think the engineers who made these things might just be.........maybe on a little higher level than ATI engineers? Ya think? After all, LIVES depend upon what some of these guys do. If THEY can screw up, you think maybe, juuuuuuuust maybe, it's possible the ATI engineers and testers screwed up too? Naaaahhh, you guys are right, WTF was I thinking

You know what, Bill NEVER inhaled....REALLYY!!!!!!! And he DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN. Nooooooooope. If Bill says it's true, it's gotta be F*#$ING true!!!

 

[Wraith]

I think all of this 3.8 stuff is BS.

Im running a 2000+ at 2.9 with 147/147 FSB, and i ahve my 9700 Pro at 410/350, my refresh rate it 120 hz, why is mine not dead.

I dont see any problems with teh 3.8's

 

[Dragonprince]

You don't even read the most important posts do you? You just take what jumps out at you and disregard the rest. I'll even repost it for you most of the important parts for you since you're having trouble.

"I'm willing to call all you BSers out that don't know what you're talking about. Put your money where your mouth is. I'm currently using a MagView 17" monitor (also built in 2000) that I swapped out after my Sun monitor died. I was experienceing the same symptoms with it until I went back to 3.7 Cats. Luckily I switched in time as it's still alive. I'm willing to have someone in my area act as a witness (forum member obviously, one that both sides can trust) and I'll reinstall the 3.8 cats and then they can observe this monitor eventually die (I'd give it 3 weeks at most). The monitor can stay at this person's house for the entire test. If it does die, then all you naysayers get to foot the bill for this monitor and the Sun I just lost. You can prepay SilverSinkSam and if my monitor doesn't die within that time, he'll send you back your money, if it does, then he forwards the money to me. If it doesn't die, I'll gladly come here and post and apologize to everyone for being paranoid.

So there you have it, put up or shut up."


"I just spent about 45 minutes on the phone with ATI tech support. I spoke to first Louis Lam. I told him of my issue and he immediately told me he would transfer me to senior tech support where I spoke to Gabriel (she would not give me her last name, but she was a nice gal). Gabriel told me she hadn't heard of the issue. I specifically asked her if overclocking or core/memory frequency can affect refresh rates. She hesitated and said she'd have to ask her product specialist who is Anthony (once again, no last name, just that he's the only Anthony there). Per Gabriel, per Anthony NO , core/memory frequency has NO affect on refresh rate. I was then referred to the same Steve Botelho, so now I'm confident that at least he's a true, living being.

If anyone thinks I'm making this up, I'll have my cell phone bill to Canada to prove it."


"OK guys, I just spoke to Richard Morrison, who was the first person to admit that they've had complaints.........which is important.......everyone else denied even of hearing of complaints, which is ludicrous.

He is going to send me out either a Sapphire 9500np or if he can't find that, he'll send me an ATI9500 pro. I am to send him my 9500np for their engineers to test. Based on their findings, I'll be notified whether or not they feel their drivers/equipment caused my monitor failure.

A senior tech will be contacting me shortly to ask me some questions.

I don't know if I'll speak on this issue further, pending the outcome, I guess we'll see."

"Thanks Sam, they have given me an RMA# and my replacement is being shipped out as I write this. I'm still concerned as they didn't ask too much information about my monitor.

EDIT: I just got a call back, they now want me to send my monitor to them as well!! This looks encouraging. Sure glad they're footing the bill for shipping a 50 pound monitor"

I love the rebuttals like:

"Surely ATI would have tested blah blah blah to insure that this wouldnt' happen"

"Well, ATI says that there isn't a problem so............."

Have you heard of things like space shuttle o-rings, space shuttle tiles, the Hubble telescope, Mars lander? Ever heard of these? Ya think the engineers who made these things might just be.........maybe on a little higher level than ATI engineers? Ya think? After all, LIVES depend upon what some of these guys do. If THEY can screw up, you think maybe, juuuuuuuust maybe, it's possible the ATI engineers and testers screwed up too? Naaaahhh, you guys are right, WTF was I thinking

You know what, Bill NEVER inhaled....REALLYY!!!!!!! And he DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN. Nooooooooope. If Bill says it's true, it's gotta be F*#$ING true!!!

Man you gotta relax a bit. All this angst isnt good for your health. MassiveOverkill indeed.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Man you gotta relax a bit. All this angst isnt good for your health. MassiveOverkill indeed.

I'd relax if you'd keep it a debate and not a witch hunt or flamefest. You know how I relax, I play BF1942 or Mechwarrior Mercenaries. Unfortunately, I've got to play them on this integrated GeForce MX440. It's like playing on Nintendo classic graphics.

 

[humdinger]

This thread still going? Sheesh people, if you're worried/concerned just roll back to the previous version driver and be done with it. I mean honestly, why the need to whine and moan to such degrees, if the driver upgrades don't actually seem to have any impact on your system (fix bugs you have for example) then there's no need to upgrade... honestly, some people acting like it will kill them to use an older driver. If it works, don't "fix" it

 

[NCtramp]

I think all of this 3.8 stuff is BS.

Im running a 2000+ at 2.9 with 147/147 FSB, and i ahve my 9700 Pro at 410/350, my refresh rate it 120 hz, why is mine not dead.

I dont see any problems with teh 3.8's

count uself blessed


Not all of us are as lucky as your are!



"AMEN"

 

[Silversinksam]

I think all of this 3.8 stuff is BS.

Im running a 2000+ at 2.9 with 147/147 FSB, and i ahve my 9700 Pro at 410/350, my refresh rate it 120 hz, why is mine not dead.

I dont see any problems with teh 3.8's

There are many variables to consider, what may affect you may not affect the guy next to you with a different setup

 

[Evnas]

Have you heard of things like space shuttle o-rings, space shuttle tiles, the Hubble telescope, Mars lander? Ever heard of these? Ya think the engineers who made these things might just be.........maybe on a little higher level than ATI engineers? Ya think? After all, LIVES depend upon what some of these guys do. If THEY can screw up, you think maybe, juuuuuuuust maybe, it's possible the ATI engineers and testers screwed up too? Naaaahhh, you guys are right, WTF was I thinking

I doubt a mistake as obvious as a monitor dying would just happen to slip past so easily. Everybody makes mistakes, but people in the position of ATi engineers, and NASA engineers, dont make blatantly obvious mistakes. If they did, they wouldnt have gotten to job they have now