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Waterblock Shootout, part deux

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NeoMoses

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2001
We've all heard how great Cathar's waterblock is, and many of us have vowed to produce a better performing waterblock than his.

I put forth a challenge. There should be a waterblock shootout to determine the (current) best waterblock. Testing shall be done by an independent 3rd party. (Possibly someone who already has one of Cathar's blocks?) Strict standards need to be adhered to. Ambient temp, tubing, radiator, pump, initial water temp all need to be constant between tests. All blocks should be able to mount on a Socket A motherboard. Let's set a date of Dec. 15th for the testing to begin.

Since we're looking for the best of the best, and testing takes both time and money, I'm going to set a standard. If your block cannot perform within a few degrees of a Maze3, don't send it. If you don't know if it does or not, buy a Maze3 and see.

It will be up to the tester(s) to determine whether to allow direct die blocks or not. Builders, if you want your blocks back, you will have to pay for return shipping. All blocks shall be eligible to be tested, no matter how they were manufactured. The only thing being tested here is performance.

Who volunteers to be the independent third party tester? Anyone have a CPU die simulator? Note: If we are unable to find an independent 3rd party tester, there will be 2 seperate tests ran, at seperate locations and performed by different testers, in order to verify the results.

Possible testers:
1. Neomoses
2. JFettig

What waterblock builders are interested in joining this competition? Who thinks their block is deserving of the title "Coolest Waterblock in the World"?


Competitors:
1. Neomoses
2. JFettig
3. Liss
4. The Overclocker
5. Albigger
6. Fragn'stien


this post will be updated with lists of possible testers and competitors.

Good luck to all, and let's raise the bar!
 
Last edited:

JFettig

Hey! I showered! Senior
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Location
MN
Ill be able to enter my block by then, Im shipping out the material to my guy to do it up on his cnc machines sometime soon:) hopefully i will have it optimized by then:)

-edit- count me in

also, can we enter direct die blocks if it has its own gasket and leak free???? lol i just made one... not with a gasket but ill get that...
 

The Overclocker

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2001
Location
Milton Keynes, UK
well, i might as well, but it depends on the competetion date and who else enters (if rotor enters then there is no point in me sending one of my blocks in as they are the same principle) i need to get me some more copper...

EDIT: the deadline may have to be set back abit (say mid january) as i need time to get more copper and shipping from the UK is a hit and miss thing and usally takes years
 

Tecumseh

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2002
Location
Ohio
You guys know that there is only one guy with the equipment
and qualifications to do this. I know some of you don't like him,
but you have to believe that ANY tests he does are going to be
the best you can get.

There can't really be a shootout, at least on performance, without
him. I suggest that anyone interested email or PM him.

You know I am talking about: BillA.
 

JFettig

Hey! I showered! Senior
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Location
MN
well i supose.... there can be other tests done, but not as acurate, he could do them, yes, will he? thats for someone to ask him... and i suggest we just number the waterblocks or something, so no favorites get picked....
 

Cathar

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2002
Location
Melbourne, Australia
The only person I too trust to do it right is BillA. I know many of you have a problem with him, but that's only because he's fanatical about doing it right with (near) zero compromises, and he does just that.

I developed my block using a testbed thats about two orders of magnitude less accurate than BillA's setup and had to do some funky things to pseudo-simulate higher accuracy (such as altering ambient slowly to watch for discrete measurement increments, etc), all of which are total no-no's for BillA's precise work.

He is honest, and he is fair, which is what you want. He just doesn't sugar coat anything, being true to the style of the better engineers I've met in my life.
 

gone_fishin

BandSaw King
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Location
U.P. Michigan
Each block has to be tested at least ten times. Lots of work just for fun. I suggest offering a pooled donation, but I don't think it would help seeing as all of his posts now read,
quote BillA, "This post deleted by its "derogatory and insulting" author so that it will not be (so) necessary
"to defend the little guys against the tyranny of the know-it-alls."" end quote

The tester is the most important part of the contest you propose, without an experienced one it will just be like all of the other junk shootouts on the web.
 

JFettig

Hey! I showered! Senior
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Location
MN
here is the problem i see with his testing, I have RARELY seen little bits and peices of it, there has never been a place were his results were posted or ANYTHING!
 

The Overclocker

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2001
Location
Milton Keynes, UK
gone_fishin said:
Each block has to be tested at least ten times. Lots of work just for fun. I suggest offering a pooled donation, but I don't think it would help seeing as all of his posts now read,
quote BillA, "This post deleted by its "derogatory and insulting" author so that it will not be (so) necessary
"to defend the little guys against the tyranny of the know-it-alls."" end quote

The tester is the most important part of the contest you propose, without an experienced one it will just be like all of the other junk shootouts on the web.

AH

i see there could be a small problem getting him to help or not, and i agree with his strict testing procidure in this case as the waterblocks can be compered together well. A well compiled and collected test like his radiator comarios (even though it was much more that that) is increadable valuable - such is a roundup like this - although less valuable as moth of these waterblocks will be unable to exactly replicate.
 

JFettig

Hey! I showered! Senior
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Location
MN
some of the blocks will be cnced, they will be exact replicas, I am getting my block that im getting CNCing entered into this so there will be exact replicas, and if it performs with par or above par of cathars block, Ill be selling them, all exact replicas... some of them arent going to be able to reproduce, like the drill press and dremel ones.
 

Tecumseh

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2002
Location
Ohio
BillA has a new article on the front page that may enlighten:
GO HERE.

Will Bill go for such a contest? I don't know. It would really help
if everyone who entered a block paid a nominal fee to cover the
cost of running such a contest. Nobody should have to go thru
this for free. This is WAY too much work for free.

Someone could collect the blocks, number them, and then send
them to Bill if that makes your feel better. But we all know what
each others blocks look like. That is no secret.

Nobody else that I know who could do this work would do it. :(
 

JFettig

Hey! I showered! Senior
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Location
MN
I still think he overdoes it, but hey, whatever floats the ol boat:p
also, we should throw in a standard, like a tc-4 or something... maze 3 or whatever just to have a standard, to see hwo much they beat or suck compared to it
 

Tecumseh

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2002
Location
Ohio
Good idea on the standard. Everyone wants to compare with the
commercial stuff...and beat 'em. :)

Bill doesn't overdo it. He does it. Everyone else, with a couple of
exceptions, way underdoes it. Science and Engineering is a very
harsh mistress, indeed. She's got some of us by the ba!!s.
 

Albigger

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
well i will definately enter my block. I should have a copper version (of the revision) done within two weeks, so it will meet the deadline. I also plan on selling if they perform well, and possibly adapted versions for the P4.

As for the test - definately need to throw in a standard. I know nikhsub1 on here has A LOT of different blocks (i think) but does not have all the equipment, as has been said. I think if BillA will do it then good (as long as it doesn't take forever) but it will be A LOT of work

possibly the interested parties and/or outside contributors should throw in something for the experimenter as an incentive, and to help buy any equipment if necessary?



This IS a really good idea, but it will be hard to get going.....
 

JFettig

Hey! I showered! Senior
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Location
MN
nikhsub1 sold all his old blocks, I would love to do the testing personally if there was like 5 blocks, the only thing is that i dont have a cpu die simulator rite now, i do have plans to make one sometime when i get the money. I also have inline probes, the main thing would be the water temp, wich is varable... its mostly at the same temp at the same clock. but most of you want someone who is not involved to do the testing, someone contact BillA
 

[EG]~NaTz~

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Location
pittsburgh pa
i may suggest that u use the maze 3 as the standard. cause everyone is always using it or talking about it i mean look for an example neomoses probably subconciously thought to compar eto maze 3 so try to use one of them...
 
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