Watercooling Advice for Core i7-930 & GTX285 (Please)

[Aktariel]

Just joined up here at Overclockers after prowling around reading, to get some input on my WC build.

Current setup (feel free to suggest improvements if you have any ideas, but this is pretty solid and what I think I want/need. To be clear, I have all of these components already and the computer is up and running, but I am listing them here for the sake of facilitating a better understanding of the situation):

MOBO: Gigabyte EX58-UD5
PROC: Intel Core i7-930 @ 2.8 Ghz (currently; will push higher with better cooling)
RAM: 12GB Corsair XMS 3 9-9-9-24 @ 1600Mhz
VIDEO: EVGA GTX285 01G-P3-1180 1GB
HD: 1x WD 150GB Velociraptor (OS X 10.6 Boot Drive), 2x WD Caviar Black 750GB (1 for OS X Home Folder, 1 for Win7 Ultimate x64)
CASE: Antec P183
PSU: Antec CP-850
OTHER: 4 Nexus D12-SL Basic case fans
HAVE: Keyboard, mouse, speakers, OSs, etc...

Primary purpose: Run OS X as the primary OS for video transcoding, Virtual Machines, gaming, photo/video editing, coding, etc. Run Windows for occasional gaming. Ideally, I would like to have it be as quiet and understated as possible while still being beastly - I dislike loud/garish computers with side windows, turbojet fans, etc.

Hardware Goals: 4.2Ghz Core i7 @ 21x200, Memory at 8-8-8-24@1600Mhz, overclock the GTX285 (unsure of stable numbers yet, have not researched)

So, as you can see, I am building a hackintosh. I have it pretty well together except both of the WD 750GB drives arrived DOA, and their replacements are not yet here from newegg (I finished building the computer last week).

I started out with a Noctua NH-D14 aircooler, but when I overclocked the CPU at 1.3 vcore at 3.8Ghz where it was stable, I was running about 82C on one core and 74C on another core, even with the case door open and the fans running. (8C temp difference on the cores?) I removed the cooler and redid the AS5 paste, but the temps didn't drop after about a day of burn in. At that point I began doing research and stumbled upon the idea of watercooling. I wasn't quite ready to jump into building an aquarium computer, but I did want to cool my CPU, and watercooling seemed the best shot. Additionally, I realized that I could cool my GPU as well, since it was running about 93C under FurMark, and sounding like a jet engine eating a lawnmower while doing so. I RMA'd the Noctua, and am now doing research on watercooling before I finish buying parts. My goal is to hit 4.2 stable OC, so I can run a baseclock of 200Mhz and hit 1600Mhz on my memory. I would ideally also like to keep SpeedStepping enabled for moderate power savings (which may seem odd considering the amount of overclocking, but every little bit helps).

So, for my watercooling setup, I have the following already:
EK Supreme HF
BlackIce GTX360
3x1850RPM Gentle Typhoons
Indigo Extreme ETI TIM

The following components are my "pretty sure things" to complete the loop:
1/2" ID, 3/4" OD Tygon Silver AntiMicrobe Tubing
1x KillCoil
XSPC DualBay Single Pump Reservoir
Swiftech MCP655 pump w/Speed Control
Swiftech Komodo Full-Cover Waterblock for GTX285.

The radiator will probably get put into the computer much like this gentleman's did, since he has my case and a similar setup; I'm not using his components, but that's the best place to put the radiator. The fans will mount underneath in a push configuration, both to maximize cooling efficiency and reduce noise. I would cut the case in a similar manner, and build/bend/buy a shroud to make it blend into the top of the case nicely.

After researching what else may have caused my issue, I realized that one of my issues may be that the CPU heatspreader is not terribly flat - when I pulled the Noctua off it had thermal paste in several areas, and not others. My preferred method of AS5 application is to put a small dot on top of the heatspreader, and then gently scrape it into an even layer with a credit card. This is what I did in this case, to ensure a nice contact layer. However, as I said, it did not appear to be even when I removed the CPU cooler. The Tom's Hardware CPU lapping thread leads me to think that it might be because of my heatspreader and/or HS base not being flat enough.

My questions are these:

1) Is the BlackIce going to do a good enough job with a Core i7 OC and a GTX285 in the same loop? The Tom's Hardware Watercooling Basics post indicated that one 3x120 radiator is probably not going to be sufficient, since the Core i7 is a hog and so is the GTX285. However, several people over at OCN have stated that it would be.

2) I am going to be running distilled water in clear tubing; color/looks are not important to me except that it be neat (you should see my cable management). Is the KillCoil + Tygon Silver Tubing overkill? Is just the Tygon sufficient?

3) With the watercooling components and overheating issues in mind, would CPU and/or waterblock lapping be appropriate? With the EK Supreme and the Indigo, I don't know if it's necessary...

4) Thoughts/Comments/Critiques/Questions/Concerns/What you would do differently for the watercooling setup?

Specifically, the goal of the build is silence and cooling efficiency. The MCP655 is quiet; will it do a good enough job? Also, the 1850 RPM GTs, while not loud, are certainly the loudest of the Typhoons. Should I drop down to a lower RPM speed? Will that be sufficient with only 1 360 rad cooling a core i7 and a gtx285?

5) Why does Core 1 on my CPU run consistently 8C hotter than Core 4, and ~5C hotter than Cores 2&3? Is this again related to the heatspreader potentially not being flat enough?


Thank you. I eagerly await your replies.

 

[Conumdrum]

Could you put that nice system descrition as ayour sig so as the thread develops we can easily see it and not have to scroll up?

Not too bad.

The pump you slecetd will NOT fit that res. You need the DDC pumps, get a DDC3.2.

Your a bit short in raddage. Can you fit a 120x4 or two 120x2? Read up on the heatload post in this subforum.

Tygon solver and the killciol is overkill, the tygon silver is expensive. Look at Primocill LRT tubing, very nice stuff, it's what I use. There are other good ones too.

The 1850s (I use them) undervolt to silent very very well.

A bunch of links you'll want to bookmark:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6489396&postcount=3

The coretemp spread, yea, probably TIM application and not too flat surfaces. Still with specs though.

Most WC CPU blocks are a bit convex on purpose and shoud stay that way. Only lap the CPU if really bad. There are ways to check that.

 

[Aktariel]

1) Done.

2) I selected that pump because it was quiet; I'd rather find another res solution like the MicroRes2, for example, than give up the silence of the pump. Plus, with half inch ID tubing, I'd have to get an aftermarket top for a DDC pump.

3) I can, though I already have orderd the 3x120 rad - it can go on top, and I can get another 1x120 for the back, perhaps. There are passthroughs for tubing on the back of my case, so it should just be a matter of getting the right bracket/mounting hardware. If two 240's or one 480 work better, I can see about ordering those.

4) Ok. I think I'll stick with Tygon non-silver, but I'll take a look at the PrimoChill.

5) I was not planning on a fan controller since all of the ones that I have seen are pieces of crap; do you have one to suggest? Will the GT1850s still be reasonably quiet/work at full RPMs? Where does the balance between efficiency/speed/silence lie?

6 - 8) Done, no worries, we'll see what happens.

Question: is a full cover GPU waterblock better or worse than something like the MCP80+ramsinks? One of the links you sent me said that is was worse in that it stressed the PCB more, but that is a much older article.

Thank you.

 

[Massacah]

Hey Aktariel,

Yeah, the gentle typhoons will be noticeably louder at 1850RPM. Where the "balance" lies is what the best speeds for your RAD are. I recommend going for a controller if you will not tolerate excess noise .

Good fan controllers:-

* Scythe KazeMaster
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811998055

Excellent fan controller, I personally use this.

* NZXT Sentry 2
http://www.xoxide.com/nzxt-sentry2.html

Heard this was a pretty decent controller.

* Lamptron FC5
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=50075&vpn=FC-FC5-B&manufacture=Lamptron

Also an excellent controller.


Take your pick .

Cheers,
Mass

 

[Aktariel]

First of all, let me say that I am now a fan of Jab-Tech; I had ordered some parts on Friday and after posting here realized that I had some of the wrong stuff; they let me cancel with no issue.

Massacah, thanks. The Scythe doesn't look horrible to me, and it should provide decent fan control for the 4 GTs I apparently need now. Can turn them down for everyday usage and then crank them up to max if I need the cooling.

Conumdrum, I really like the BlackIce rads; would 1 480 be sufficient, or would 2x240s work better?

CPU -> GPU -> res -> pump -> 480, or

cpu -> 240 -> gpu -> res -> pump -> 240?

Also, a 360 is fitting on top of my case with not much room to spare; a 480 would take up the whole top and then some. I can make it fit, but it would extend past the back of the case a bit. Would the last fan drawing air from both the inside and the outside of the case be an issue, or should I just create a shroud?

Or, is 2x240 better, since that can be made to fit with less issue (though the 480 would be just one rad disrupting my case lines, look nicer, I think.)?

 

[Conumdrum]

either way on the rads, 120x4 is huge, two 120x2 easier to setup usually. They are very low restriction. Black Ice SR-1 rads right? NOT the GTX rads, you need high speed fans for them to work well.

Try for the coolest air through the rads. One in the front bay area and one out the back?

 

[Aktariel]

Hmm. I was thinking GTX since I had those hi-speed GT's but if I'm undervolting them then that won't work. How low would you think one could go on lowering the RPMs on a GT? I know that GT RPM speeds are not really comparable to other fans; they have comparable performance at higher revs without sacrificing noise. More research...

The way it would go if I used 2x240s would be one on top much like the link in my original post, and one out the back through the already provided watercooling grommets. A 480 would just be shoehorned into the top and protrude out the back. Have to make a shroud for underneath, instead of just on top. I'm not in a place to measure the case, but I can do that when I get home and whip up some concept art, play with the angles and measurements a bit to see what would work best. I'm more a fan of the 480 if I can swing it, due to the fact that I think it would break up the external case lines less, but I'll have to see.

Any thoughts on a full cover GPU waterblock vs a chip-only solution such as the MCW80?

 

[Conumdrum]

Those high speed GTs really aren't considered high speed for a BIX rad. Noise is an issue? No BI GTX rad.

 

[Aktariel]

Noted. SR-1 it is.

I have the same case that THIS GUY does; was going to mount the 360 the same way. Since that's not enough to dissipate my expected wattage, I was going to mount the 480 the same way, and have it stick out the back. I can't have it stick out the front, as it would interfere with the door, but 517mm has to go somewhere... I will know more once I take a measuring stick to my case.

I have been (and still am) reading through the links you threw at me, and have been hitting up Google enough that I should own stock in it, but am unable to find a definitive answer as to whether or not a full cover WB is indicated over a universal one for GPUs. Could you perhaps give me a direction to search in?

 

[Conumdrum]

Here is the difference. A universal one can fit many series of GPU's as you upgrade. You still need good airflow, sometimes an internal fan to blow on the chip heatsinks you have to apply. Swiftech has a nice cover for all the aircooled bits, I like that solution. You'd have to get a new aircooled cover for your next GPU though.

It's a bit cheaper than most full cover blocks too. Cheaper in the long run.

To SLI two chip only cards is a pain in the butt. SLI with full cover? Looks good and is easy.

Swiftech has the new xx 80 something GPU only block, dunno if they have a bracket for your card though. You could get the xx 60 one pretty cheap these days I bet.

 

[Aktariel]

Well, I'm not really planning on running SLI, since this will primarily be a Mac machine, and Mac doesn't do SLI. Plus, it's not intended to be a gaming rig, so again, marginal gain.

I thought I had a line on a cheap EK fullcover waterblock, but it seems to be for the Rev1 of the GTX285 PCB, so no soap.

The MCW80 is compatible with the GTX285; Swiftech also has a very nice full cover heatsink to go with it as you said. It also seems to do pretty well thermally, but it is copper and Acetal which I'm not a fan of. I'd rather have it be all metal, but you know what they say about beggars and choosers... Might be my best bet for now - it's difficult to find fullcover waterblocks for the GTX285 at this point in time.

 

[Aktariel]

OK, did a bunch of reading, did some math, don't have quite all of the information, but.

1) assuming a reasonable amount of headroom, a Core i7-930 @ 4.2Ghz under full load shouldn't put out more than 300 watts, and that's a pretty high estimate - probably more like 275. A GTX285 running at max does the same - right about 275. Those two components in my loop are going to be putting out about 550W of heat, roughly. This seems to me to be a high estimate, but we'll run with it.

2) I have no information about how a GT compares with a YateLoon, but there is a good writeup of the HWlabs SR1 360. Assuming that heat dissipation scales linearly with surface area, the 480 should be ~134% as effective at dissipating heat.

3) Assuming that a GT at 1850 is roughly comparable to a YateLoon at 1400, and all of the other assumptions piled on, a 480 or 2x240 rad should give me a DT of just around 8-9C. Not massively awesome, but certainly good enough.

There's my rough as heck numbers. Any comments?

Also, I've decided on 2x240. Fitting a 480 anywhere on my case just wasn't happening.

Would it be better to have the setup as Rad->CPU->Rad->GPU->Res->Pump, or as Rad->Rad->CPU->GPU->Res->Pump?

As much as I would like a dual bay res for greater thermal capacitance, I am considering either one of iandh's/EK's cylindrical reservoirs, or a MicroRes2, since all of the res' I can find are for DDC pumps.

Now to learn about shrouds for rear radiator mounting.

 

[evensen007]

I just put the MCW80 on both of my 5870's. Load temps were 79-82ish on furmark extreme burn. Now they max at the upper 40's. The vrm's and memory stay relatively cool with copper or a heatspreader block that swiftech offers. My vrm's and mem measure ~8-10c hotter than the core. I don't have any extra fans besides the radiator fans blowing air for them.

 

[Aktariel]

Thanks. I only have one case fan that would blow on it, but even to get it under 70C would be a huge victory. I think I'll go with that, since I only plan on having 1 gfx card for the forseeable future (several years, at least) and it costs less to buy a bracket and a fullcover heatspreader than a new fullcover WB.

 

[Conumdrum]

Aktariel, GREAT job! Glad the math link helped.

You mean for a shroud, how to mount the rad off the back? Best I have seen is allthread and some bolts. Few pics around showing how it's mounted. The thread is easily purchased at hobby stores and they have neat tubing to cover the threads. Lots put thje rad about 2.5 to 3 inches from the case back, room for plugs etc.

The only issue is you need good glasses, and ultimate care to not puncture a rad tube. It's slow work, but it works just fine.

 

[Aktariel]

Thanks. *slight ego boost*

yeah, I think I'll put the rad on some standoffs with some covered thread, and let the GT's go to work. Only thing I have to watch is the fan power cords, and they can get nicely cabled to the WC tubing and go in the back grommets.

Now, since my paycheck has almost run out for this week, it's time for patience and more research until next week when I order things.

I am pondering just making a reservoir out of some PVC tubing, since my case has a nice little shelf just under the GFX card that will let me put something there, and it fits in perfectly in the loop order just after the second rad and before the pump.

 

[Conumdrum]

Fans can be wired in parellel. So only one nice sleeved 3-pin wire running to the fan controller. You can buy sleeving at lots of places.

Conect black to black, red to red, only use ONE yellow RPM wire, I cut the other fan yellow off at the fan. All come into a mini 3 pin molex to connect to the back of my fan controller.

Clean, common mod.

 

[Aktariel]

Works for me. The RPM wire would control both of the fans? I guess my assumption was that a fan controller worked by lowering voltage on the black wire; if that's the case, or something like the case, what function does the RPM wire have?

 

[Widowmker]

GTX 285 GPU Block: EK Nickel $26.41 New

Akteriel - I saw this when I was at MicroCenter last weekend, it's in store only but they have them at a few of their other stores around the U.S.A. (check website and pick a store location). If you don't live near a MicroCenter maybe you know someone that does and can buy and ship it to you.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0308631

 

[Conumdrum]

Works for me. The RPM wire would control both of the fans? I guess my assumption was that a fan controller worked by lowering voltage on the black wire; if that's the case, or something like the case, what function does the RPM wire have?

Mnay fan controllers have an RPM function. My cheapo fan controller doesn't have RPM but thats fine. But been looking at the new ?Lamptron? controller, monitors RPM but still manual speeds.

So, RPM wires isn't needed unless you need auto fan control.