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watercooling.... not much improvement

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buduglee

Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Location
so.cal
I had a 1.2 cele @ 130fsb or 1575 give or take on an st6 using a
an sk6 h/s and slightly noisy fan.It would run prime 95 and 3dmark2001 at the same time forever..perfectly stable.I just installed an innovatek with the 159gpm pump watercooling system.I can now run prime 95 and 3dmark 2001 kinda stable
at 131 [email protected]. Not much of an improvement.

With the h/s fan combo and 130fsb I was at 1.775 volts.

My ambient temps range from 19c to 23c.
At an ambient of 23c my cpu temp under load is 40c-41c.
At best, I've dropped 2c at idle and under load.
This is disappointing and not quite what I expected.
The system is quiet, no bubbles,the water is moving, no kinks
in the hoses and the waterblock appears to be seated properly.
Does this seem right?
 

tft

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2002
Location
R.I.
Pretty much. Just straight water-cooling will generally only make a small improvement over the more high-end air cooling solutions. Look into tec's and mini fridges if you want more extreme cooling.
 

Silver

Senior Citizen (aka old fart)
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Location
Dallas, Georgia
As the wattage goes up the efficiency of the water cooling becomes more efficient. This becomes very apparent in the AMD processors. Holding 40c constant under load allows a pretty fair OC. My system can and has handled 2.3v on a daily basis on a T-bird 1.4. Present xp is running on 2.2v. Look at the bright side, you have gained experience, a quiter system and the potential to go pelt cooling should you so desire.
 

DodgeViper

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2001
Location
WILDCAT COUNTRY
Check out this thread and you will see some of the photos of my rig. CLICK

Now not to nock innovatek system but the rad is not going to remove the heat like a heater core will. The other night I left the back door open where my computer is. I was able to get my case temps to 20c and my cpu runing prime95 for over 4 hrs and my cpu temps were 35c. Idled my temps were 30c.
 

Silver

Senior Citizen (aka old fart)
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Location
Dallas, Georgia
DodgeViper said:
Check out this thread and you will see some of the photos of my rig. CLICK

Now not to nock innovatek system but the rad is not going to remove the heat like a heater core will. The other night I left the back door open where my computer is. I was able to get my case temps to 20c and my cpu runing prime95 for over 4 hrs and my cpu temps were 35c. Idled my temps were 30c.

And that is no easy task on a T-bird 1.4.
 
OP
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buduglee

Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Location
so.cal
Thanks for the responses.I guess I was expecting too much.
Hopefully,someday in the not far too distant future,when I upgrade, my wc system will be more help.
As Silver said...at least I've gained experience.......unfortunately,
this was an expensive learning experience.
I think I'll go play some UT and vent my frustation.
 

Silver

Senior Citizen (aka old fart)
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Location
Dallas, Georgia
buduglee said:
Thanks for the responses.I guess I was expecting too much.
Hopefully,someday in the not far too distant future,when I upgrade, my wc system will be more help.
As Silver said...at least I've gained experience.......unfortunately,
this was an expensive learning experience.
I think I'll go play some UT and vent my frustation.

And for that I am sorry. There are some really reasonable (price wise) ways of doing it. Should you ever decide to pelt cool then look around and do some typing. Most of the guys are really helpful and can at the very least point you in the right direction.

As stated by Dodgeviper, you might look at the radiator and its' efficiency. I know a ford escort heater core is really cheap new (don't buy it from Ford). I bought one and it did not get me where I wanted to go. I run a bong now and it does the trick for me.
 

Warlord2

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2001
Location
Bakersfield,CA
that seem just a tad hot to me. Im getting 44c load with my tbird at 1.47 and that is putting out more watts thin any celly. Maybe its just the heater core or maybe the AS2 just hasnt settled in yet.
Either way you can slap on some super quiet fans and still have yourself a good overclock.:)
 
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buduglee

Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Location
so.cal
Happy Easter!
Rad set up is innovatek ..as seen on their website.
Case temp is now 25c.Cpu temp is 37c.Chipset is
30c.Ambient is 21.5.I'm surfin' the net and listening to rem...no
....suite judy blue eyes (csn&y).
I'm thinking about getting a higher output fan for the rad like a ystech(125cfm+-)Do you think that would help? My current fan(120mm is about 68cfm+-).
Steve
 
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Silver

Senior Citizen (aka old fart)
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Location
Dallas, Georgia
Need to get some of the other guys in here as I do not run a radiator setup and am likely to give lousy advice on them. I run a bong setup.
 

stymee

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2001
Location
Troutman, NC
Interesting....

I added the Innovatek kit (with rad) to my Celly 1.0A (in an Asus Slocket on a P3B-F) and my temps dropped from around 41C (with a stock Intel/Papst 33cmf) to 31C (roughly 15-18 over ambient to 5-8 over ambient).

I was able to push the cpu to 140 rock stable, and it'll post at 150. And I just sat the Rad/Fan in the bottom front of my case, haven't got around to mounting it permenantly yet.

Did you use too much antifreeze in your mix? (I used about 10%) Are you getting sorta fresh/cool air to the Rad? Are there any kinks in your lines? (that vinyl tubing is kinda crappy). Is the air all bled out of the system? Is the block mounted just right?

Just a few things that I think might be givin' you a little trouble.
 

zoopa_man

Member
Joined
May 24, 2001
Location
NY where the cows out number the people
I just went through the same thing you are going through. I have a abit st6 board and a celeron Tulatin 1.2Ghz cpu. With straight watercooling i was able to do 1.75v and get my processor to 130mhz FSB. Was running about 40C idle and 43C full load. and as soon at my temps toped 42C i would loose stability and i would crash around 44C. I tried everything that's been mentioned here. the only thing that made some of a difference was when I put a higher output fan on my rad. That brought temps down a whole 2 degrees. But nothing dramatic like I had hoped. I even experimented with opening my window and letting my bedroom get really cold so my ambient temps were way down. I found that when i did that I was able to overclock with much more stability. Thus I decided to go peltier cooling.

Before the peltier I couldn’t even get my system to post over 131FSB speed. With the pelt i'm finding I can post at 140 but windows isn't very stable at all. Check my sig to see where i'm at right now..it changes daily as i'm still experimenting. But I think Your only option to get a good cool Celeron is to go pelt or refrigeration cooling. I've found that at normal ambient temperature air doesn’t seem to cool the water down enough to get an overclocked celeron much below 38C - 40C.

If you decide to go peltier I wouldn't go any smaller then a 156W Pelt. I'm sure you can do some reading around the forms on peltiers and never be afraid to ask questions. We'll always help you out.
 
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buduglee

Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Location
so.cal
stymee-no antifreeze(small amount of water wetter),no kinks
or bubbles and the block appears to be seated properly.

zoopa_man-I just happen to have a 78w peltier.
Did you attach your peltier to the innovatek waterblock?
If so, with what? Were any mods necessary to get the retention
clip to work?
 

surfinguru

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Location
In the barrel!
Hey guys, I'm in the same scenario. Just installed the Innovatek kit this weekend and I am getting very similar results. My Celey [email protected] with 1.75v-core gives me 38-40c idle and around 42-44c with Prime running. Currently, I'm only using the 120mm fan that came with the kit plus one 80mm rear exhaust and the power supply exhaust. I have a feeling there is a combination of things happening here: not enough cool air coming into the case causing the thermister to read higher due to lack of air flow and I had some difficulties getting the mounting bracket to hook onto the socket. As a result, the wb was twisting and moving all over the place as I tried to seat it, so maybe the AS-3 got goofed and needs to be re-applied? Water mixture was 3/4 cup Arrowhead distilled water with 1/4 cup Peak antifreez until unit was full. (About 75%-25% mix) Is that too much anti-freez?
The good thing is that as I was doing the install and case mods, I pulled the greeny off the northbridge and threw some AS-3 on it. So between the water kit and the northbridge mods, I can now boot at 132 instead of 128. Prime will eventually crash after about 45 minutes, but everything else is *stable.*
 

Warlord2

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2001
Location
Bakersfield,CA
if the block is moving around like you say it is you need to put a thinner layer of AS3 on and make sure you tightened that block down pretty good. You also dont want the hoses to pull the block away from the cpu or you will loose some pressure.

this is the 3rd bad report I have seen in the last 3 days about Innovatek Im thinking maybe the mounting system isnt very good or something?

surfinguru

I would say that is more anti-freeze thin you need. More like 5-10% would prolly be better, unless you have a system that has both copper and aluminum mixing with eachother, only thin do you need more anti-freeze to.
 

surfinguru

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Location
In the barrel!
Yeah, I think I'll reapply the AS-3 tonight when I get home. As far as the mounting bracket goes, it's as tight as it'll go. Man, what a stress though. It seemed like the braket wasn't long enough to engage both sides of the socket so I increased the angle of the already angled side and it would finally grab both sides of the socket. (Boy, that was wordy now wasn't it?!?) Here's what I was talking about:
 

DodgeViper

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2001
Location
WILDCAT COUNTRY
surfinguru, first I would shorten your hose's. Then make sure that the water is flowing in this order. Pump Outlet to Rad, Rad to Center of Water Block, Water Block back Pump Inlet. Next make sure you have good airflow through the rad. Looks like you have an Antec case. On my case I drilled out the case for better airflow so the fans can draw air. Also its better to pull air across the rad then push air through the rad. You should mount the fan 180 degrees from where it is now. Better yet put another fan and use a push/pull setup. If the W/B is moving this is a big problem.

In my setup I am using two Panaflo 86 CFM 120mm fans plus two 80mm fans blowing out from the case. I have a small positive pressure inside the case.
 
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buduglee

Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Location
so.cal
DodgeViper,
I've read several posts that say flow direction isn't important.Have you found that it's better to have the output
go to the rad.Is the differance substantial?
I'd really hate to pull my system apart for a 1/4 degree.