What is better, MAC or PC?

[cack01]

The reason macs are so overpriced, is because Apple does not allow any 3rd party developers for their systems. They infact have a monopoly on macs, and thus there is no competition to bring the infalted prices down. I actually have no problem with macs, b/c they actually perform quite well with what they have been given. My gripe is with Apple whos market stratigies are not really to my liking.

 

[zachj]

There's nothing illegitimate about Apple's monopoly. They tried selling to third parties, who made "clones", but they started to do better than Apple because they could significantly undercut Apple. It would be just plain stupid to let a company selling your own product push you out of business. I think there might be better ways to do this and maintain competition, but I don't really see it as a monopoly. A Mac is a computer, just as a Radio Shack radio is a radio. They just have different brands. But you won't find Wall Mart selling Radio Shack radios. They sell either Wall Mart radios, or expensive kinds like JVC, etc., who don't have their own stores to sell from.

Everyone does it, so either everyone participates in one giant monopoly, or it's not one at all.

Z

 

[zachj]

And you can also buy most of the parts for a Mac online and build it for significantly less than a retail machine, so it just depends on where you get yours, I guess.

Z

 

[CrashOveride]

you can build a mac? i thouhg all you could do was plug in a keyboard, mouse, and possibly change the CD writer/reader and floppy if you wanted to risk getting electricuted by their stupid monitor in there...

though there is one think i applaud them for: running without fans... though it gets freaking hot and that makes the CDrom and monitor seem louder... i dont like that part...

 

[zachj]

First of all, you risk electrocution in any computer, so that argument doesn't count.

Second of all, yes, you can build a Mac. You can get all the parts off of eBay and specialty stores. Much of the parts are refurbs, but who cares, so long as they work?

Macs haven't have floppies for at least 2 years, if not more (I don't count years on that stuff, as it hardly matters).

CDROMs and HDs are often the loudest components these days. You can't say you can't hear your CDROM, so that argument doesn't count either. And even so, CDROM use it temporary, fans are constant.

They don't run fanless. They have at least one in the PSU and a very large fan to duct air into the case and over the processor (it might even be two now).

One of the reasons they get so hot is because they have a happy layer of insulating lucite to keep heat in and cold out.

I was very much under the impression that monitors didn't make noise. If it's an LCD, the inverter brick thing might hum, but the screen itself makes no noise. And CRTs only have that static sound when you turn them on and off, so I'd love to know what you're talking about.

Z

 

[Zim2411]

You can build macs, only you'd have to buy a refurb case/PSU.

My friend across the street has a DP 1 ghz mac, with 512 ram (came with 256), super drive, 80 gig hd, and radeon 9000 pro. His parents bought this around January, for 2500.
His mom is REALLY weird. If the sun is shining, she makes you go outside and play. She goes camping in the rain, and doesn't realllly care about her kids. And yells. Alot. Anyway, she doesn't really like computers.

So thats why they have 4 computers. 1 crap emachines, 1 good mac, 1 crap mac, and one broken powerbook (400mhz G4, with broken DVD drive) Weird ain't it?

O. Did i mention they also got the 22" Cinema Display? (another 2500 right there)

Heres the thing. All they do with that is check email, surf internet, watch a FEW DVDs, and play what little games they doo have.

What a way to waste 5 grand!!!! Not to mention, they still can't use their lego mindstorms kit, (200) they got for christmas (3 kids, ages: 8:10:12 (i think))

The most challenging thing the Mac has had to run was the Unreal Tournment 2003 demo. (My mom's system could do that! if we gave her a new video card, as shes running a voodoo3)

Ok.

Had they had gotten a PC at the time, they would be able to do all that (including the cinema display) and MORE!!!!

They would be able to REALLY surf the net. (Safari is waaaaaay to betay) They would be able to use their 200 gift. It would not have cost 2500 bucks. It would have come with 512 ram. It would have come with nice speakers (they have some crap speakers my mom got for 2 bucks that i gave them)
They would be able to play their PC games!!! (They have all AOE games, WWP, Starcraft and some others...)

Now. Which would you choose?

PC or MAC?

Also, a month later, i was at their house, his mom was looking for something on the net, and we were standing around watching for lack of anything better to do.

She opened Safari, and saw the apple site.

23" High Definition Cinema Display. 2000$!
We checked the prices of the macs. They one they bought a month ago had dropped 1000 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only Apple could have dropped prices that quickly.

Also, I was harrasing this one guy in the apple store this one time. Wow. The apple store is soo.... empty....

Also they just HAD to get a mac, so they could get adobe Indesign FREE!!!

They have not done a single thing with that program.

Mac with those options, or a PC back in January?

Edit: LONGEST POST!!

 

[zachj]

I absolutely don't believe you. There isn't a DP machine on Apple's site for a grand.

And your opinion and their experience is entirely subjective. That is no grounds for an argument. Just because your neighbors are silly doesn't mean Apples are all crap. They clearly just didn't think before they bought.

Oh my

Z

 

[Maxvla]

would it ruffle your feathers zach if i said i don't even consider a Mac a real computer?

i don't. i think of them as expensive toys.

 

[Zim2411]

I agree with Maxvla.
But Zach, i said they got the system for 2500. It was like... 1000 or so reduced. They don't sell it anymore

 

[zachj]

Which was it? Maybe I didn't read it right, and I didn't go back up to look, so forgive me, but I thought it was the DP 1.25? They still sell those. And you can't find anything on eBay above 700MHz for less than 1500 dollars.

Please don't mistake me for a mac fanatic. I could really care less about Macs. I own one, yes. But it's only a 350G4, which is slow as balls, so it's not like it's all I use. I just really hate this argument. Nobody has a legitimate point about this, it's all opinions and subjective interpretations of tests. I agree that Apple is trailing PCs and that a P4 really tears the G4 a new a-hole, but that's not the point. I just loath this whole thing. I will pay anyone in this entire forum a lot of money if they can prove to me that Apples are better than PCs or that PCs are better than Macs. They're each good in their respective markets. I have a huge list of complaints for Steve Jobs if he cares to look. Of course, I could really get into Bill Gates and Michael Dell, too. This whole thing is pointless. And sure, it would make sense if I just stayed out of the whole thread, but I hate people saying crap that just isn't f-ing true. I'm here to keep people from giving others their opinions, as if they were facts.

Z

 

[n17ikh]

The thing Macs are used for now mostly is high quality video editing... but any 1.7 P4 with a freeware program like Virtualdub can do just as good... and as for a 3.06 HT, well, you can guess how good that does...

 

[Ebola]

apple invented the gay computer. end of story.

 

[DemonicAardvark]

Apples:
Looks Pimp!!!

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?! Either you are high or...

 

[Captain Slug]

My 7 reasons for never buying Macs

1. fewer choices in every field
peripherals, software, etc.

2. Unergonomic design
I find their keyboards and mice uncomfortable for many reasons. You can save yourself alot of movement in windows by learning how to use the CTRL, SHIFT, HOME, END, and PAGE UP/DN keys. Without them I find any work on a Mac to be overly tedious. The same can be said for the lack of a scroll wheel and only one button.

3. Manufacturer Specialization
The past century has proven that no specialization of manufacturing and increasing specialized competition produces products of higher quality and reliability. No single company will be able to produce every part at the best possible quality by designing and manufacturing the whole end product on it's own.

4. Cost returns
I can break down a PC and diagnose which part is causing the problem and replace JUST that part, or sell all the parts I know are still working. Since there are common form factors for each part, other people can buy them from me and be assured that they will work in their machine 90% of the time. This gives me more return on my investment.

5. Disposability
If a Mac is broken, don't try to tell me that it will be easy to diagnose and replace a single part cheaply. Apple computers seem to be designed as disposable items you replace in-whole every few years.

6. Designer prices
It's the same reason I will never buy designer furniture. If it's built to serve the same purpose, why do I need to spend $250 on a chair simply because "an artist" designed it? I'm going to use it, not put it on display. With a PC I can obviously do that on my own later if I WANT to.

7. Attitude
Mac users are too cult-like in behavior. I'm buying a computer, not a philosophy.

To me, comparing a PC to a Mac is like comparing a sports car to a power wheel.

 

[zachj]

First of all, while I'm not gay, nor a gay activist, I'd like to point out that an object can not be gay, in either sense of the word. It has no feelings or sexual orientation, thus it cannot be gay, whether it is interpreted happy or homosexual. I'm not trying to make a target of you, but saying stuff like that will offend others. It's, of course, their choice to GET offended, but for the sake of harmony . . .

Second of all, I've yet to read a hard fact in this thread. Yes, a P4 can beat a Mac, but nobody has posted a single number related to how much. Links aren't sufficient, simply because people don't click them.

CaptainSlug:
1. I agree with that
2. Macs have the same key commands as Windows, just with different keys. If you're not a Mac user, you probably don't know them, but they're as fundamental as Alt-F4 and the like for us Windows users.
3. While that's true of Apple, you're conveniently forgetting the rest of the industry. ATI, AMD, Intel, NVIDIA, Ford, Chevy, Kenwood, JVC, you name it. They all produce lemons. That's the way of manufacturing. The accumulation of minor errors within the product amounts to a flawed product, one that performs significantly below expectations, or not at all. They either don't sell them, reduce the price at which they are sold, or sell it as a lower model. By allowing other people to make parts for you and sell them, you simply introduce different ports of entry for errors. Apple actually buys most of its stuff from other people. The only thing they make themselves is the logic board and the case. Everything else is purchased from different companies, some of it is rebranded, and they call the entire contraption an Apple. I'd wager the production of the logic board and case isn't done by Apple either.
4. You can replace single components in a Mac. The problem with Mac's method of replacement is that to have it done, you have to take it to an authorized Mac service shop or you void your warranty. You also pay more for SOME of the parts, but only those that come from Apple. You can buy any RAM you want, and Hard drive, any network card, etc. that you wish. You can buy PC components and flash them with a Mac BIOS. Certainly not for the average user, but possible.
5. That's always a choice, as it is with anything. You can have the transmission in your car replaced, but many simply choose to buy a new car at that point.
6. True, but it's only a flaw if you don't like expensive stuff.
7. Just because Apple commercials say you're buying a philosophy and others assume if you own/use a Mac that you're "one of THEM", doesn't make it true. This whole concept is a huge stereotype, one which doesn't need spreading. Not all people buy a Ford truck because they're "Built Ford Tough". Some buy it because they like the way it looks, because it's the cheapest they can find, because that's what they're used to, and a slew of other reasons. No person fits a specific profile simply because they buy a product. They are VIEWED as fitting it, with flaws ommitted.

GIVE ME A COLD HARD FACT!!! You can't find one that shows one is better or one is complete crap. Why? Because neither side of this argument is right.

Z

 

[SinsFeelNatural]

My favorite quote concerning macs:

"mac users who claim that their macs are faster than pcs are so full of (s word) that they could double as septic tanks"
-Max pc after doing an extensive benchmark comparison

In all seriousness, I can see why some people use them. they are definetly a niche product. Its really not an apples to apples comparison.

As for me, I dont trust any computer I dont build myself- so macs are out of the question.

Man in the Maximum PC benchmarks they had apple send its fastest machine and they (MAC) got SPANKED!

 

[SinsFeelNatural]

First of all, while I'm not gay, nor a gay activist, I'd like to point out that an object can not be gay, in either sense of the word. It has no feelings or sexual orientation, thus it cannot be gay, whether it is interpreted happy or homosexual. I'm not trying to make a target of you, but saying stuff like that will offend others. It's, of course, their choice to GET offended, but for the sake of harmony . . .

Second of all, I've yet to read a hard fact in this thread. Yes, a P4 can beat a Mac, but nobody has posted a single number related to how much. Links aren't sufficient, simply because people don't click them.

CaptainSlug:
1. I agree with that
2. Macs have the same key commands as Windows, just with different keys. If you're not a Mac user, you probably don't know them, but they're as fundamental as Alt-F4 and the like for us Windows users.
3. While that's true of Apple, you're conveniently forgetting the rest of the industry. ATI, AMD, Intel, NVIDIA, Ford, Chevy, Kenwood, JVC, you name it. They all produce lemons. That's the way of manufacturing. The accumulation of minor errors within the product amounts to a flawed product, one that performs significantly below expectations, or not at all. They either don't sell them, reduce the price at which they are sold, or sell it as a lower model. By allowing other people to make parts for you and sell them, you simply introduce different ports of entry for errors. Apple actually buys most of its stuff from other people. The only thing they make themselves is the logic board and the case. Everything else is purchased from different companies, some of it is rebranded, and they call the entire contraption an Apple. I'd wager the production of the logic board and case isn't done by Apple either.
4. You can replace single components in a Mac. The problem with Mac's method of replacement is that to have it done, you have to take it to an authorized Mac service shop or you void your warranty. You also pay more for SOME of the parts, but only those that come from Apple. You can buy any RAM you want, and Hard drive, any network card, etc. that you wish. You can buy PC components and flash them with a Mac BIOS. Certainly not for the average user, but possible.
5. That's always a choice, as it is with anything. You can have the transmission in your car replaced, but many simply choose to buy a new car at that point.
6. True, but it's only a flaw if you don't like expensive stuff.
7. Just because Apple commercials say you're buying a philosophy and others assume if you own/use a Mac that you're "one of THEM", doesn't make it true. This whole concept is a huge stereotype, one which doesn't need spreading. Not all people buy a Ford truck because they're "Built Ford Tough". Some buy it because they like the way it looks, because it's the cheapest they can find, because that's what they're used to, and a slew of other reasons. No person fits a specific profile simply because they buy a product. They are VIEWED as fitting it, with flaws ommitted.

GIVE ME A COLD HARD FACT!!! You can't find one that shows one is better or one is complete crap. Why? Because neither side of this argument is right.

Z

this reminds me of a quote I heard a Network Admin say... cant say it here except "MACs are for art *(**(&^&^*&^"

but tonight when I get home I will post the benchmark scores out of the maximum PC article and you will see the macs getting worked.

 

[zachj]

I have that issue and took great pleasure in seeing the Mac get reemed. It's about f-ing time Apple does something to change that. I think we should all look forward to what Apple's gonna' do next. Should be interesting. I'll really enjoy seeing Hammer/Prescott/Opteron wale on the new Mac!

I swear, I'm really not a Mac fanboy. I know all the facts, I do.

I just won't stand and let people bash Macs (or the other way around). It's a silly thing to do. It doesn't work.

Z

 

[Captain Slug]

I just won't stand and let people bash Macs (or the other way around). It's a silly thing to do. It doesn't work.

Manufactured Computers in general bore me. If I had a Mac I'd probably sell it and build two PCs with the money.


But like girls, I only like the computers I can do something with.

 

[SinsFeelNatural]

I have that issue and took great pleasure in seeing the Mac get reemed. It's about f-ing time Apple does something to change that. I think we should all look forward to what Apple's gonna' do next. Should be interesting. I'll really enjoy seeing Hammer/Prescott/Opteron wale on the new Mac!

I swear, I'm really not a Mac fanboy. I know all the facts, I do.

I just won't stand and let people bash Macs (or the other way around). It's a silly thing to do. It doesn't work.

Z

I work tech support and we are suppose to help out mac users so I recently had the pleasure of sitting through a 2 hour mac training and listened to some ex apple mac guru tell how macs were so much better than PC.

When asked, @ home he has 1 mac and two PC................................ hmm...............