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what is the difference between the 2200 and the 1800??

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SYT_Shadowfax

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Location
Barcelona, Spain
Hi. I'm about to replace a puter that just died on me with an AMD machine.
I wanted to get a 2100 or a 1900 but the store I'm buying at only has 2200's and 2000's.
I can't order online as I live in Spain and need this puter working this weekend.
From what I've read here, there's some kind of -obscure- difference between a 2100 and a 2200 although they work at the same fsb and have the same cache.

Can I get a 2200 and overclock the same as I would have with a 2100?

Thanks ppl ;-)
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Hi, in addition to a 2100+ Palomino which you do not want to get since it has no room for significant overclocking, there are two kinds of 2100+s and three kinds of 2200+s, click here http://www.c627627.com/AMD/AthlonXP/

2100+ Thoroughbred B is an excellent overclocker.

You don't want a 2100+ or a 2200+ Thoroughbred A, (Overclocks about 300 MHz less on average), here are the codes that tell which is which: http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=222237

2100+ B are better than old 2200+ made in 2002.

Newer 2200+ B should be similar to newer 2100+ B's but it's not worth it to spend more $ on 2200+s.

Finally 2200+ may be a new Thorton. New week 39 and up Thortons may be locked so you definitely do not want a new 2003 post week 39 2200+ Thorton CPU.

Good luck.
 
OP
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SYT_Shadowfax

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Location
Barcelona, Spain
c627627, thanks for answering. You also replied a post I did a short while back, so thanks a lot.

Seems like there are way too many chips out there! What a disaster!

Here are some more questions:
Is there an easy way to know which chip is which? Unless I'm mistaken some have green "tops" and others are brown. I guess they're different but not really sure.
The problem is I probably won't be able to check the codes before buying :-(

So, if I can get a 2000 or a 2200 you recommend the 2000, right? What mult do they have?

Thanks again
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
SYT_Shadowfax said:
Is there an easy way to know which chip is which? So, if I can get a 2000 or a 2200 you recommend the 2000, right? What mult do they have? Thanks again

Codes is the only way.

Very few sites in the United Staes also list codes so, yes, that's a problem unless you can see the chip or can call and have them tell you before you buy.

Your title says 1800+ vs. 2200+
but your message asked 2100+ vs. 2200+.
So post 2 is 2100+ vs. 2200+

As for a different question of 2000+ vs 2200+:
As long as it's not a 2000+ DMT3C Palomino (since there are no 2200+ DMT3C Palominos) you're looking at exactly the same thing:

2000+ and 2200+ come as T-Bred As, T-Bred B's and Thortons.

There is no hope of comparing 2000+ vs. 2200+ unless you have codes.

New Thortons are locked so you don't want that.
Old Thortons and Thoroughbred B cores are the best for overclocking and the only way to tell is through codes:
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=222237
 
OP
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SYT_Shadowfax

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Location
Barcelona, Spain
Sorry for the confusion man. I was asking about the 1800/2000/2200 as the other ones aren't available here.

I've printed out the thread you sent and will ask the vendor to verify the codes. At least so I can get a TBred B! I'll simply ask for the codes on the 2000, then the 2200. Whichever is better will be the chip.

About the mult being locked, does it really make a difference in my setup:
OCZ Platinum 400Mhz and an Abit NF7 -S I mean, isn't the idea to get to 400mhz fsb (~2300mhz) and just leave it at that?

What voltage should one of the good chips require to get around 2300?

One last thing, in PR ratings, what does [email protected] equal?

thanks for your patience
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
MHz Speed = [FSB] x multiplier

Check what the (possibly locked) multiplier of corresponding chips is here (right column) and figure out the PR rating as well: http://www.c627627.com/AMD/AthlonXP/

2.3 GHz may require non retail cooling for a T-Bred. Some chips need 1.85 volts Vcore, others more or less, there's no set voltage figure...
 
OP
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SYT_Shadowfax

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Location
Barcelona, Spain
Wow... I thought most AMD cpu's did around 2.3 on high-end air
:-$

So, if 2300's a bit too much on air, say I can reach 2200. That means that 2200/13.5 (mult on the 2200+) = 333mhz fsb.
I thought most o/c'ers were running this chip at around 410fsb... am I mistaken?
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
T-Bred B's do 2.3 on high end air yes but not with retail cooling. If you have a copper heatsink, you should hit 2.3 GHz with a T-Bred B.

FSB is RAM dependent. What kind of RAM you have determines what FSB you can reach. PC3200 does dual 200 FSB at default, and then up from there.

PC2700 does dual 166 FSB at default and then up from there.

That's why you need an unlocked multiplier since it's best to lower the multiplier and increase the FSB as much as your RAM can overclock.

Remember that in addition to increasing Vcore voltage, you need to increase Vdimm RAM voltage to squeeze all the FSB you can out of your RAM...
 
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SYT_Shadowfax

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Location
Barcelona, Spain
Ah, ok, that's what you meant by retail cooling. I have a fair amount of experience o/c'ing Intel but am totally new -as you've seen- to AMD o/c'ing.
The heatsink I'm getting is a Zalman 7000A Al-Cu, which should be pretty decent.

So that's the importance of the unlocked mult... if not we'd all have to be buying 1600's to reach 400fsb!

I'll call today asking for the codes and see if they have anything decent. I'll probably post with the stepping just for sure!
 

The Coolest

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
What you should be looking for is 1800+ JIUHB JIXIB JIXHB or similar, not JIUCB or JIUGB as they are not as good, with the DLT3C code. these are the best overclockers around, and with the motherboard you have you can get much higher than just 200MHz (400ddr), The idea is to get as high as possible, and most of the ones I mentioned break the 2400MHz mark and some lucky ones even the 2500MHz wall.
2100+s are not the best choice of processor for your motherboard and RAM combo.
 
OP
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SYT_Shadowfax

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Location
Barcelona, Spain
I just ordered a 1800+! The vendor didn't have any there to read the codes out but said they were week 14 2003 if that makes sense. Apparently it's one of the newer ones.

If I were building this rig for myself I'd be getting 450ram or better but as it's for my little sisters they'll have to "conform" to mere OCZ EL 400mhz ram. I imagine they'll be pretty happy anyways as they currently have a K7 700!

Also this way I can learn a bit about AMD o/c'ing!


PS: the power supply on that puter probably won't cut it to get to those nice speeds either and I can't replace it as my dad's still sore from the Gigabyte of OCZ 433EL memory I put into a rig along with a [email protected] lol;-)
As I'm a poor student in Industrial Engineering I can't really do anything 'bout that