what makes a motherboard?

[caddi daddi]

I just turned my new fx8210 8 core(four core dual thread) in to a 7core(3core dual thread/1core single thread) with to much heat,(80c seems to have been the limit in prime 95, blend for 120 mins). Now, I need a new fx and a motherboard. I want to know what makes a good motherboard for the fx. just specs and features please, what they do, what they mean, and what they are. for example, I don't even know what a mosfet is or what it does, why do I need heat sinks on them. I don't even know what a north bridge is and can't point it out on my motherboard, except the one going out of town to the north.
no brands or such as I like to do my own shopping. the machine is for a new overclocker, I'm old, I don't see in hd so i don't need a video card. I am deaf in one ear and tone deaf in the other, so no fancy audio.

MY GAWD, RGone is gonna make me work and I hope learn a thing or two in the process.

now I need to know, where do I Begin the hunt? general mother board forums, here and other sites for the numbers stuff and my desk for the subjective stuff.
sound good to you? (I just learned about this post editing)


let me see, what am i moving from the roasted unit, the cooler is not going to make it. over in cpu's/amd cpu's/ temps,temps, what temps, I learned that multi core processors when overclocked in a tiny case make lots and lots of heat. so the h60 water cooler is not going, I also learned that the motherboard plays a large roll in heat abatement, more mass more heat transfer, full atx motherboard is called for. more mass, more heat transfer also means a larger watercooling system, a 120-2 and I'll add two fans for a twin push me pull you set up and this has to stay inside the case so it will at least be a mid tower case this time, not the hp tiny sr1603 case i built the other setup in. the ultra 650watt power supply i will get fixed and that will go to, I had to turn it on it's side to keep it inside the old case.

OK, on the vrm, this thing regulates all the 12 and 3.3 voltage used by the cpu. my fx8120 was pulling 192 watts, that's flowing some juice. it also is told by the cpu how much voltage it requires. all that juice makes lots and lots of heat. so, a large heatsink in this area or a fan is in order. as Ron Poepeal said, "BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE". all this low voltage, high amperage juice thundering around must be damped, so lots of high quality capacitors are in order also.
the board itself can be 4 or 6 layer, I need MASS and darned lots of it so a six layer board is a must.


OK, the asus rampage extreme seems to have the front on this count, I think the vrm and 6 layer board move it to the front., I am seeing an intel cpu coming at this point.


on your #2 point, I am always ripping my machine apart, adding and removing things, i tinker about. future proof is a little iffy with amd cpu's intel is in the lead and the fx flatters only to deceive, amd's future is a little muddy to me. usb 3.0 yes, sata 6 OK not a must.



Due to cost benefit, ARgone wins this round.


mosfets, what the flea bag is a mosfet, a transistor, for us a current regulator as opposed to a voltage regulator. This has just gotta make more heat.
I can't find what these do on a motherboard but i did find that metal ones are better than silicone mosfets in an ibm white paper.



If water cooling, the board needs an extra fan connector, a fan MUST be installed in the case side blowing into the cpu area, when you remove the air heatsink you remove the airflow from the voltage regulator and the mosfets, just ask me how i found that out.

in the photos RGone has posted look at the big blue heatsinks all over the place, the two boards I have tried did not have these. they also did not have digital vrms and they did not have over heat or overvoltage protection, finding this info is a lot harder to find than it really should be.


fan ports, this is more important than i thought.
without four fan ports on the board I have to run fans that power from a four pin molex connector, these fans run at full speed all the time. This would be fine if i overclocked all the time. My three year old grandson likes to play angry birds on my machine so these fans scream at full tilt all the time, not pleasant when just playing a game with my little buddy and his grand mother likes it quiet in the house.



power supplys, i had the time so I took my fancy 850 watt power supply and my not fancy 'white box' 550 watt power supplys to the car shop the other day and found some interesting things. Using the car shop stuff I loaded the power supplys till the voltage started to fall off.
my fancy 850 watt unit had the 12 volt side fall to 11.5 volts at 525 watts.
my white box 550 watt unit fell to 11.5 volts at 490 watts.
make what you will of that but, my white box unit was a better deal, dollar for dollar.

ram. why do we try to shove in so much high dollar ram?
I have 4 gigs(2x2 gigs) in one machine
I have 8 gigs(2x4 gigs) in the other.
ram places a load on the cpu, more ram= more load.
I do'nt edit video, I crunch numbers. I run a simulation of the four suspensions on my race car, the inputs are all numbers and the outputs are all numbers that later get converted to a simple graphic, this is all cpu work and i never seem to use more than 3 gigs of ram so much more than four gigs is just taxing my cpu for no gain to me.

 

[RGone]

If any of us just posts up what "we" consider to be a good thing about a motherboard, there will be a couple of things likely to happen.

1. The debate over gidgets and gadgets gets off track.

2. The fanboys of X mobo brand come and blast with how awesome there thing is.

On the surface this is nothing wrong with either of those but you need a good board. All the rest is just dressing. We look for good cooling on the components on the motherboard and we look for a good adjustable bios and good bios support from the company that builds the motherboard. All of that comes with years of sorting thru the gunk to see what board is most likely to fit a user's need.

I am going to try to show two boards. Either of which I could buy and be happy with using an FX series processor. They are full 990X chipset boards and not 970 chipset boards. They are similar with a few differences that I will try to mention. I would buy the Asus myself. But you need a couple of choices.

I like this board's layout of the slots for cards a little better and I personally like Asus better.

ASUS M5A99X EVO AM3+ AMD 990X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

Then this ASRock mobo.
I doubt that you would go wrong with this board either. I think the coolers that are onboard and covering the chipset and VRM circuits look a little more robust.

ASRock 990FX Extreme4 AM3+ AMD 990FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

 

[txus.palacios]

For me, what makes a good motherboard is the opinions and reviews I can find and that the motherboard has a nice heatsink for the CPU VRMs.

 

[caddi daddi]

txus, AWESOME reply, thank you, what is a cpu vrm and what does it do for me?
I am reading the reviews and the posts but mostly my hunting turns up, as RGone calls them "mobo fanboys". the board sites all seem to just give me a sales pitch. and a cryptic spec sheet.

 

[RGone]

VRM = Voltage Regulation Module. Good cooling is a good thing if one plans to overclock the cpu and have good strong voltage to the cpu. But it all begins with a solid, clean-power power supply.

 

[caddi daddi]

had to change my sig, roasted my fx machine

 

[Dermen]

Since you won't be running multiple video cards there are cheaper alternatives to 990 boards.

GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 $110
ASUS M5A88-V EVO $120
ASRock 890FX Deluxe4 $125

All of these have good VRMs and 8 phase power. The main differences are the Asus has onboard graphics, and the Asrock has 4 usb 3.0 ports, two on a front 3.5" panel that also doubles as a 2.5" HDD/SSD mount. The other boards only have 2 rear USB 3.0 ports.

 

[caddi daddi]

PLEASE SEE txus' post

PLEASE READ THE THREAD, i much prefer to shoot myself in the foot, the pain is more pleasing that way!!! NO!! brands, NO model numbers or any such...PLEASE.

 

[RGone]

Now you can get ready to do some serious legwork and g00gling to make up your own mind.

1. Does the motherboard have the standard ATX form factor, since they generally are less crowded due the larger board size and greater real estate can equal better cooling and room for heftier components and more of them.

2. Does the motherboard have enough built on features that will hold me over for a couple yrs minimum? The prospective buyer needs to decide what he really needs in a motherboard.

3. Does it have enough PCI slots and the right style for future pci card installation if I need any PCI slots at all?

4. Does it use the correct expandable video card technology that i want? Do I intend to use more than one video card. I might add right here is onboard video good enough for me or am I only going to use a stand-alone video card?

5. Does the mobo support the same socket processor socket that i want?

6. Does the mobo support at least the maximum amount of memory i want to use?

7. Does the mobo support memory that is cheaper in price than other mobos if that is my preference for saving money?

8. Speaking of onboard features- does the mobo support onboard SATA or SATAII or SATAlll and how many EIDE slots if i want any does it have? The same could be said for Usb 2.0/3.0 and even eSata ports thru the rear of the motherboard.

9. Is the mobo jumperfree? (This really is referring to jumpers for cpu or ram speed and not just a board with a CmOs jumper which even that jumper is replaced with a button type switch often now.)

10. What type of features does this mobo support that will allow me to overclock safely without damage or features that can allow the overall system to function safer\faster\durable\and any unique features that make it stand out from the rest? (In todays market that could refer to #1 above and it could refer to the cooling for VRMs/chipset as well as to say the mobo having a UEFI bios.)

11. How long is the warranty and what does it cover?
Is this manufacturer reputable with good overall ratings from other customers?
Are they located in the same country as you are?

12. In the design of the motherboard, is the layout of the design well spaced to allow installation of a heavy duty heatsink if required and\or the installation of dual video cards without cooling issues? (See #1.)

13. Lastly that I would research the chipset that the mobo uses and determine if there are any negative comments found in your research and determine if that may affect your decision for a particular mobo. (In this situation you will really have to do your legwork/homework. Just about ANY chipset has problems or bugs. Reading many many user problem threads/posts will reveal the chipset problems. How does any particular brand or model within a brand handle those issues. Some mobo companies manage to work-around many of the problems that afflict a particular chipset.)

14. Am I even interested in the processor/chipset that I first had in mind. There maybe other cpus/chipsets that are more easily overclocked and just plain easier to use day to day. I have often come to this situation after doing a lot of homework. I have looked at HWBot and looked at the rigs that are used to post up the big scores. Sometimes it seems one combination is just walking the dog over everything else. I know these guys would use 'anything' they wished and yet they are using a particular combination. This often gives me cause to look long and hard at what I really want to do. To do in the long run day in and day out.

15. Then I guess after looking at every angle I can think of; I look to see which boards are favored by what forums. I need to get a board that is thought well of and supported by a forum I enjoy being a part of if I want to communicate for help or for just plain old comradrie.

 

[caddi daddi]

I have setteled on the asus sabertooth, digital vrm, lots of heatsinks, supports the drives i have, has onboard usb 3.0, atx form, and overcurrent shutdown. I have been doing a heck of a lot of reading and the rog extreme is arriving doa too much for the extra $60.00. any thing more to say guys?

 

[Zenos]

Thanks Caddi.

 

[larrymoencurly]

I also learned that the motherboard plays a large roll in heat abatement, more mass more heat transfer, full atx motherboard is called for.

Where did you get that informaiton? Almost all the heat goes out through the CPU heatsink, not the circuit board, although Asus apparently adds an extra layer of copper inside their motherboards or uses a heavier than normal layer there. But it's possible they do that only with some of their motherboards.

mosfets, what the flea bag is a mosfet, a transistor, for us a current regulator as opposed to a voltage regulator. This has just gotta make more heat.
I can't find what these do on a motherboard but i did find that metal ones are better than silicone mosfets in an ibm white paper.

The regulator feeding the CPU is called a VRM (Voltage Regulation Module), not a CRM (Current Regulation Module), for a good reason, even though the MOSFETs regulate the flow of current.

Originally MOSFETs were Metal Oxide Silicon Field Effect Transistors, then somebody invented a way to make the gate out of silicon instead of metal, but the term MOSFET stayed. I don't know what power MOSFETs use now, but silicon vs. metal gate probably isn't nearly as important as the resistance when the device is turned on fully, or RDSon -- lower means less heat. I don't know if all motherboard companies use MOSFETs rated for enough amps or power.

I'd look for a motherboard rated for at least 25% more power than your CPU will ever use, even when overclocked (power is proportional to frequency and proportional to the square of voltage, so 20% clock with 10% extra voltage would need 45% extra power).

in the photos RGone has posted look at the big blue heatsinks all over the place, the two boards I have tried did not have these. they also did not have digital vrms and they did not have over heat or overvoltage protection, finding this info is a lot harder to find than it really should be.

I don't know how much digital control helps with the VRM, but maybe it's like digital control of jet engines and rocket engines and simply lets them safely run closer to maximum tolerance, meaning lower capacity and cheaper components can be used without sacrificing reliability. But how does that help when the limits are determined by the capacitors? Maybe motherboard manufacturers should simply use better components.

power supplys, i had the time so I took my fancy 850 watt power supply and my not fancy 'white box' 550 watt power supplys to the car shop the other day and found some interesting things. Using the car shop stuff I loaded the power supplys till the voltage started to fall off.
my fancy 850 watt unit had the 12 volt side fall to 11.5 volts at 525 watts.
my white box 550 watt unit fell to 11.5 volts at 490 watts.
make what you will of that but, my white box unit was a better deal, dollar for dollar.

Which 850W PSU and which 550W white box? Because there are OEM PSUs that look plain but are top quality, like Zippy-Emacs, Delta, Win-Tact, and Enhance. Also how did you load down the +3.3V and +5V rails along with the +12V?

 

[caddi daddi]

mosfets, an ibm white paper best as i can remember. it was a long and dry read.

motherboard heat, intel white paper discussing circut resistance increase as circut temps increase and how that is a circle. A few motherboard support emails asking the locations of temp sensors, found that they are in the boards (other tan the one in the cpu) and not in the actual device or vrms, also found out that the boards have more than one vrm.

fancy psu's, ultra.
white box psu, i found a sticker on it, cool master (not cooler master). it came in a solid white box. I even think it might have been a refurb and it's still running fine in my linux internet server that is on 24/7 at the shop.

i only tested the 12v rail, used a home made carbon pile set up hacked togather by one of the guys in my shop, I did not know the importance of the outher outputs at the time.
we used a vantage graphing dvm, a pico scope and a killowatt.

YOU CAN ALSO FIND A LOT READING PATENT APPS BY HON HAI PRECISION INDUSTRY AND MANY OTHERS.