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What processer should I get?

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OP
GreenSmoke

GreenSmoke

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2013
4. GPU-For gaming computers is best to get the biggest GPU you can afford. That's where the extra $100 comes in. N760, N770 & R9 280X are right where you want to be in my opinion.

Why add a gpu?
The Apu already has graphics built in
Unless you plan on really gaming hard the Apu works well

I want to reconcile these two statements along with my own sentiment that a $150 video card is the sweet spot.

In the past, I have always targeted around $150 for a video card. Once upon a time, I replaced a 3 year old $150 video card with a brand new $400 card. I could barely tell the difference. I ended up returning the $400 card and sticking with my ancient $150 card until I built a new rig. That was in the mid 90's.

Now I am torn. I don't game much. I haven't played a FPS on computer in years. I want to spend my money wisely and I want to be able to play games. I don't mind turning down the settings if I play an intensive game.

Does this change anyone's direction?

How big of a hit does the system take if I use the onboard GPU?

It was unthinkable to use an onboard GPU a few years back but rotary dial telephones used to be all the rave also. Is the onboard GPU now more realistic? When I look at the benchmark for the Radeon HD 8670D (the onboard GPU), its not TERRIBLE, but the geek in my does cringe.

Right now, I am going back and forth between the 7770 GHz Edition I originally had on my list and the GTX 760 Blaylock put me on. Using the onboard GPU goes too much against my old dog ways. That being said, I don't know enough about what I speak to say definitivly not to the idea and thus I open it back to the wider audience.
 

Blaylock

"That Backfired" Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Go Blue!
If I were in your shoes I would go with the APU and no graphics card at this point. The other members have brought up some valid points. You always have the option to add a discrete video card at a later time. Also there isn't very many good sales on the higher end cards at the moment.

Edit: The A10-6800k integrated graphics is equivalent to HD7750. Which should be very capable for your style of game play.
 
Last edited:

Mandrake4565

Mr. Clean Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
If I were in your shoes I would go with the APU and no graphics card at this point. The other members have brought up some valid points. You always have the option to add a discrete video card at a later time. Also there isn't very many good sales on the higher end cards at the moment.
Agreed!

I went back and re read your intentions and I also agree with you here:
In the past, I have always targeted around $150 for a video card. Once upon a time, I replaced a 3 year old $150 video card with a brand new $400 card. I could barely tell the difference. I ended up returning the $400 card and sticking with my ancient $150 card until I built a new rig. That was in the mid 90's.
I have 4 different rigs all at 1680*1080 resolution, that I game on and the majority of the time I see no difference between any of them. They range from an I7 4770k at 4.5 with a 580 gtx, the rig in my signature, on it down to a 955be at 4.1 with a 5850 on it. The only difference is when playing graphic intensive games such as BF3 and BF4 I don't have all the eye candy turned up on the lesser system. Otherwise there really isn't any noticeable difference for me. If you were a big time gamer and wanted to play high resolutions with all the eye candy turned up then yes there would be a difference, but that's not the case here.

The Apu without a dedicated Gpu should be fine
 
OP
GreenSmoke

GreenSmoke

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2013
edit: This was posted without having seen the two previous responses.

3. PSU-As mentioned you won't need 650W although threes nothing wrong with getting a larger one (I normally do to). I dropped this build to a 500W as it's unlikely you'll SLI your GPU.

I went halfsies with you on this one. If the PSU holds up, it will be in future builds, so for $8 more than the PS you quoted, I use the next level up.

5. [email protected] CAS 9 is all you really need for gaming. Anything higher is basically unused.

Ok, but why did you pick such expensive RAM? Elsewhere, someone recommend the RAM I have in the build below. I assume there is a reason you chose what you did though. Please enlighten me. Sorry if I am being difficult, its not my intent :)

The current build stands at:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD A10-6800K 4.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($139.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-G1.Sniper A88X ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba Q Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($92.98 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.98 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB Video Card ($124.99 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WN781ND 802.11b/g/n PCI Wi-Fi Adapter ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($52.99 @ NCIX US)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Professional (OEM) (64-bit) ($109.00 @ Amazon)
Keyboard: Logitech K350 Wireless Ergonomic Keyboard ($48.99 @ Dell)
Mouse: Logitech M570 Wireless Trackball ($39.89 @ Amazon)
Total: $901.75
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-08 15:34 EST-0500)

A couple notes about the build and some other comments...

  • Someone commented that I would need more fans in the previous case. Will I need more in this case also or do you think I am good?
  • I removed the USB3.0 ports. I will worry about those if/when I need them. Most likely, it wont be a big deal to use the ports in back.
  • I remove the Optical Drive - I RARELY use it and will salvage one from an old build.
  • I am stuck on this mouse. I have used it for years and am addicted to it. I went with the matching keyboard to use the same receiver. As a side note, I learned that the receiver stores its parings, so if you unplug your receiver and plug it into another PC, viola, it works. This is an awesome feature leveraged when I bring my work laptop home. I don't own the keyboard yet, but assume it will work the same.

Last but not least, I want to thank EVERYONE for their comments and posts. I am especially appreciative of those of you who have stuck with me and replied multiple times. Your time, knowledge, and willingness to help is greatly appreciated! :clap:
 

Mandrake4565

Mr. Clean Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
If you want to use the usb port in the top/front of the case you can always get an adapter such as this.
 

RGone

Senior DFI Staff
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Location
JAX, Mississauna
GreenSmoke when you ask for recommends in a forum setting you get answers. Plenty of answers and often much bias in suggested parts and pieces.

Plus now you have to know that the desktop computer is at a sort of crossroads and surely so if are looking at AMD.

You write >> Now I am torn.
Answer >> Sure you are since we are at a crossroads with system types with AMD.

I don't game much.
Answer >> Well in english what does that really mean? Are you going to now get back into gaming? Serious gaming?

I haven't played a FPS on computer in years.
Answer >> Well is that the sort of game you now intend to pursue seriously? Which Game?

I want to spend my money wisely and I want to be able to play games.
Answer >> Not sure any of us just start out to spend unwisely. But what we are actually going to do with our computer system dictates just how close to spending wisely we might get. So far your projections of intended use, well seem a little or maybe a lot vague.

I don't mind turning down the settings if I play an intensive game.
Answer >> Now we do not see that statement made from many and not many of us really really believe it since most spend plenty money on video cards for that pizzaz they believe is needed.

I put a link up for looking at some posts ago. Back another page now even. It was looking at the question of could an A6600K with onboard video play any games. They had captured video of some game while being played as an example of what was seen on the screen. It was a two part article and I linked both articles. You need to go and look and get yourself back up to speed on what might be available.

Now I have said more than once that if you are going with an APU, that you should consider waiting on the coming Kaveri. It is supposed to be more powerful than the Richland based A10-6800K you are now looking at. New tech in the cpu and a more powerful iGPU. Better ram support and actually just plain better than current APU offerings. You might not even need a video card for however much gaming you really "now" intend to get back into. Only you know what you will do and the better you relate your real intentions to us, the better will be suggestions to you.

You are at such a place in time that it might be better for you to slide your spending scale upward a little bit and get an inexpensive, for Intel, setup and slap all the video card you can afford in it and game on. Most any game not withstanding.

Or you can buy an APU like this one linked here >> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-Athlon X4 760K - AD760KWOA44HL - AD760KWOHLBOX.html << and it is an APU FM2+ type socket that will fit in an FM2+ mobo and yet it has NO intergrated graphics in the APU. Well a dead graphics section most likely. The silicon is like in there for the APU and it failed and rather than throw the whole thing away they sell it as a graphicless APU. THEN you have to use a video card.

Honestly if money spent was any issue at all, I would wait on Kaveri and try it with the intergrated graphics. If it was not powerful enough for my gaming desires, then I could throw a stand-alone video card in and rokkon.

There is also the fact that the case we saw you choose at first is not at all conducive to overclocking a stout FX-6300 to 4.7Ghz or so for fluid gaming with a stand-alone video card.

So there are tons of options and intentions to be sorted before you can get a 70% or so accurate guesstimation of what might be your project for money well-spent.
RGone...ster.

EDIT:
And before I forget it. If buy a board that will fit a later Kaveri cpu it MUST be FM2+ type or the later coming AMD APUs will not fit and work. An FM2+ board will run the Richland cpus out now but the FM2 no + boards will not run the upcoming Kaveri APU.
END EDIT.
 
OP
GreenSmoke

GreenSmoke

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2013
Here is some game play with just onboard gpu

Wow.... This is a very helpful post!

The comment from the youtube poster says the youtube doesnt do it justice either and the actual gameplay is better than the youtube.

This is heavy ammo for using the onboard GPU. I think I will start with the onboard GPU and see how it goes. I can always buy one later.
 

Blaylock

"That Backfired" Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Go Blue!
Here is a good review of that case. Page 3 covers the fans and ventilation. It comes with 1 intake and 1 exhaust fans, both 120mm. Personally I would add 2 more 120's. Also I would remove the 4X HDD cage unless you needed it off course.
 

sobe

Unscathed Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Wow.... This is a very helpful post!

The comment from the youtube poster says the youtube doesnt do it justice either and the actual gameplay is better than the youtube.

This is heavy ammo for using the onboard GPU. I think I will start with the onboard GPU and see how it goes. I can always buy one later.

Indeed, onboard graphics really has come a long way, especially with these APUs from AMD.
 
OP
GreenSmoke

GreenSmoke

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2013
RGone: I think I may have unintentionally mislead you a bit. I am a casual gamer at best. I mostly play games that don't take a lot of graphics processing. I guess I consider myself a gamer, but in reality, I am a gamer at heart and an old man in reality. Right now, I find myself without a game at all but who knows what I will pick up next.

When I was young, I liked more action games that I would consider graphics intensive. Now I prefer more strategy games or games that don't require as much reflexive response. My favorite games are Civ5 and Railroad Tycoon 3 (stop laughing :D, its mindnumbingly fun). I might play BF4 next which would be counter to what I say, but I would just need it to run smoothly. I will probably find a racing game also because my son keeps asking me for one. BF and a race game are both probably more graphic intensive but I am willing to turn the settings down.

My eyesight isn't what is used to be. I am generally OK without glasses, but since I don't wear glasses most of the time, my mildly blurry vision might be lowering my graphics expectations in games.

I will have to go back and read your previous post's links. There was a point where the conversation went over my head and I thought the conversation was for some of the more technical people who and responded prior to your response. I have at least skimmed everything that was posted but I will take another look.

As for Kaveri, I think the community actually has me on a good path with the current CPU, assuming my understanding is correct. The MoBo that the group has me on currently will work for a Kaveri CPU upgrade later. I like to play it safe, so if I wait for Kaveri I am either an early adopter, or I will have to wait several months to get a user consensus. I want to get one now because I want to use my current rig as a family PC in another room. In a year or two, the Kaveri will be mainstream and ripe for a low cost upgrade. That makes this rig last 5 or so years which is about how long I go between rigs.

I know saying "I don't mind turning the settings down" is craziness around here :screwy:. I used to be an active member in this community and had a 1987 Chevetter Heater Core with 120mm push/pull fans water cooling my OC'd Barton 2500. I came back here for recommendations because I know that people read a lot about all sorts of parts and settings and everything. I know there are also people who will give me recommendations for stretching my dollar.
 

RGone

Senior DFI Staff
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Location
JAX, Mississauna
GreenSmoke man that is one seriously well thought out and worded reply. Great. FM2+ mobo and Richmond seems a good idea since you understand you have a path forward and know of your physical limitaions.

Pleasure really hearing from you sir and good luck man.
RGone...
 

Blaylock

"That Backfired" Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Go Blue!
Greensmoke, I definitely think you're going in the right direction. The mobo you have in your list is FM2+ and will run the APU you have listed as well as the next generation APU Kaveri. As far as the ram I suggested, the Aries line is their lower end ram. That doesn't mean a whole lot if your just going to plug it in the slots and run it stock. I assume that's what you will do and it should work fine for that. I've never personally used that line and don't know the reliability/warranty of that line. If it was bad someone would have mention it by now. If not now is the time folks.

Pleasure working with you.
 

Mandrake4565

Mr. Clean Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
GreenSmoke, if you can find less expensive 1866 ram with Cl 9 timings or lower buy it. The one you linked is sold out and most likely will be more expensive if it does come back in stock, due to it's better timings.
 

kmo_9000

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Location
Ontario, Canada
I still don't see the point in going with an APU build for what the OP needs. Yes he said that he doesn't want to do heavy overclocks or get high FPS in shooters. And he said that he can always turn the settings down and that will be perfectly good for him.

But for $900+ as some of the APU builds are here he could get himself a whole FX system with a decent gaming GPU, a mechanical keyboard and a gaming mouse with mouse pad.

You said you wanted to spend money wisely. Well this is what I would get with $900 (closer to $800 actually):

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($109.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Gelid Solutions CC-TranQ-01-A 58.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($35.99 @ Mwave)
Motherboard: ASRock 970 Extreme3 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($61.98 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus Radeon R9 270 2GB Video Card ($183.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Zalman Z9 ATX Mid Tower Case ($41.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Thermaltake SMART 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - OEM (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Keyboard: Rosewill RK-9000BR Wired Standard Keyboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Mouse: Logitech G400s Wired Optical Mouse ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Other: Steelseries Qck Mass Super Thick Cloth Mouse Pad 11.2X12.6IN ($14.68)
Total: $836.53
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-08 21:37 EST-0500)

It's very similar to two systems I build for separate friends recently. The motherboard won't get you high overclocks, but a friend of mine has his 6300 running stable at 4ghz easily with a Hyper 212 Evo cooler. The GPU is above your $150 price limit, but seeing as this card is so close to the 270X I think its a great value. You can always drop to a R7 260X, but I don't recommend it.

Look this system will do everything you want it to do and you won't have to sacrifice anything. I've put together one like this a couple months ago, and another friend has his parts on the way that we will build later this week.
 

Blaylock

"That Backfired" Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Go Blue!
The FX6300 is a great CPU however the OP stated in his opening post he didn't want a CPU that produced excessive heat. The 6 & 8 core FX chips most definitely create alot of heat. With proper ventilation and CPU cooling it would be a good CPU for him. The problem I see with your suggestion is more with the Mobo you chose. I understand you've built a system with this pair recently, however; the ASRock 970 Extreme3 has a 4+1 VRM section and known thermal throttling issues that you may not have noticed yet. Generally speaking it's a bad idea to put a 6 or 8 core FX on a board with only a 4+1 power phase.
 

kmo_9000

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Location
Ontario, Canada
The FX6300 is a great CPU however the OP stated in his opening post he didn't want a CPU that produced excessive heat. The 6 & 8 core FX chips most definitely create alot of heat. With proper ventilation and CPU cooling it would be a good CPU for him. The problem I see with your suggestion is more with the Mobo you chose. I understand you've built a system with this pair recently, however; the ASRock 970 Extreme3 has a 4+1 VRM section and known thermal throttling issues that you may not have noticed yet. Generally speaking it's a bad idea to put a 6 or 8 core FX on a board with only a 4+1 power phase.

I've seen people complain about heat when overclocking the 8 core FX chips, but never the 6 cores. And 4+1 phase is fine for a 6 core, a modest overclock to 4ghz should be easily done. People only start running into throttling issues when they try and put an 8 core CPU on a 4+1 phase mobo AND try to overclock it.

But the OP said he wouldn't be doing much overclocking anyway. At stock with a Hyper 212 Evo or the Gelid cooler you almost certainly won't have problems with heat. Really AMD FX chips are no hotter than chips have been in the past, their actually an improvement.

Even if you wanted to shoot for a higher end mobo like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

Motherboard: Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $134.99
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-09 12:31 EST-0500)

It would still be less than the $900 he would be spending on the APU system.
 

TeknoBug

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Either A10 6800K or FX 4350. I'm liking the 4350, higher clock out of the box and easy to hit 5GHz.