What to buy for Overclocking Mobile Barton

[Squishy]

BEGINNERS: What Hardware to Buy for Overclocking Mobile Barton

Ok I'm new to all this, so I've been doing some research and wanted to share my findings. Please feel free to comment on my selections.

If you want to upgrade your PC, and you've read that the Mobile Barton's are great for overclocking, like here: http://www.techtastic.ca/reviews3/mobile-barton-2500.html or here: http://www.fastlanehw.com/reviews.php?i=102&page=1 , then you know how tempting this can be.

Your system is probably like mine- a not too shabby AMD 1400+ or something similar, and you’re about ready for an upgrade. You think, hey, if I can pick up a CPU chip for $78 and get 2.6GHz out of it, WHY NOT?!?

Well, there’s more to buy than just that. Here's what you'll need to get started.

1. The Mobile Barton CPU chip.

This comes in a few flavors, the ones I've found are:

Model: 2400+
Stock: 1.8GHz (133FSBx13.5), ~$78 as of 4/9/04

Model: 2500+
Stock: 1.86GHz (133FSBx14), ~$92 as of 4/9/04

Model: 2600+
Stock: 2.13GHz , (133FSBx16) ~$110 as of 4/9/04

Note on cache:
You don't want to start below these (like 2000+ etc) because they only have 256k of L2 cache. Do it right and start with the 2400+ and up.

Note on FSB:
You will be overclocking your bus speed from 133MHz to as much as 225, depending on your cooling. NOTE: On some websites, the FSB is listed as 266MHz. That's because the CPU can use data on the rise and fall of the signals, in effect doubling the frequency of the motherboard bus (133*2=266). But when overclocking, you'll be changing the motherboard's bus speed, which will start at 133MHz for these chips.

So which do I get? The 2400+? 2500+? or the 2600+?

The chips are constructed the same, but some are better "quality" according to AMD, thereby getting a higher stamp. If you're going to be using a regular cooling fan and power supply, stick with the cheaper 2400+. If you want to go into higher performance overclocking, the 2500+ or 2600+ would suit your needs, since they may last a little longer. Remember- overclocking shortens their life, but only if you push the voltages beyond 1.85 or 1.9, and the temps past 55C. (From what I've read on this site).

2. Motherboard

You’ll need a good overclocking motherboard. Keep in mind it should meet your other requirements, like onboard sound, RAID, or whatever else you need. Epox, MSI, Abit, Asus, etc. all make good boards… but there’s one that stands out which I chose:

The Abit NF7 (v.2.0) NForce-2 AGP-8X DDR400, ~$70 as of 4/9/2004

This motherboard has something unique that I like- dual memory channels. This has a speed advantage that is unique to its chipset, until the VIA competitor is released later. Basically it’s a tried and tested stable motherboard that has all the overclocking features you need. If you use RAID, you’ll have to get a separate RAID controller card. I wouldn’t recommend going with the Abit AN7 to get onboard RAID… that motherboard is still in its infancy and the uGuru feature doesn’t work so good, according to the guys on the Abit forums.

3. Memory

You’ll be pushing the FSB on the motherboard upward around 215-230 MHz, so you need memory that can take it. Here’s three choices for memory speed, select the one in the range you expect to overclock.

200/400 MHz => DDR400 or PC3200 (Safe overclocking)
217/433 MHz => DDR433 or PC3500 (Pushing the limits, better fan, heftier power supply)
233/466 MHz => DDR466 or PC3700 (Uber over clocked, expensive cooling system, expensive power supply)

The brand is key too. Get something that you can afford, but is name brand. Kingston, Corsair, OCZ (my favorite because it’s cheaper). The reason? You will be upping the voltage on your RAM, and lowering latency timings. If you get cheap RAM, your system won’t be stable, and the money you spend on other parts is wasted. RAM isn’t cheap now, so expect this to be the most expensive component.

Be sure to get the RAM in a PAIR- so you can take advantage of the dual channel DDR on the motherboard.

I suggest:
OCZ PC3500EL 256MB DDR 433MHZ CL2 x2 = 512MB, $68x2=$136 as of 4/9/2004
OCZ PC3500EL 512MB DDR 433MHZ CL2 x2 = 1GB, $125x2 = $250 as of 4/9/2004

Quote from HITECHJB1:

Don't spend money for the "matching pair". Since some charge a huge premium for those "matching pair" memory and claim them would match better.
E.g if one stick costs $70, paying $140 for two sticks is fine. But if they ask an additional amount for that 2 sticks, I would not go for that.

4. Power Supply

You can’t run everything else in your system if your CPU and memory are drawing a lot of power. To make things stable, you need a good power supply source that is rated to give you the Watts you need. Be careful not to get generic power supplies without checking their ratings. I’d stick to Antec/Fortron/Sparkle.

Basically you need good amperage on the 12V rail to handle the CPU and your peripherals. 16A for light loads, 18A for medium, and 20A for ultra-overclocking. Also, the 3.3v+5v rail wattage needs to be somewhere in the 220W-230W range or more. That is what determines how stable your system will be. Name brand power supplies can independently supply the maximum power to each of the three rails (3.3, 5, and 12v)… whereas generic usually won’t.

Compared to the more expensive Antecs, the Fortron/Sparkles seem to do very good: http://www.techimo.com/articles/i143.html

I suggest:
Fortron Source 400W Power Supply With 12CM Fan, Model "FSP400-60PNU-R1" for light overclocking, $62 as of 4/9/2004

Fortron 530W Power Supply, Model "FSP530-60GNA" - for medium loads, $85 as of 4/9/2004

EDIT: This next power supply doesn’t have connectors for AMD boards! Thanks to HITECHJB1 and GAUTAM for pointing this out!!

Fortron 550W EPS12V PSU, Supports Dual Xeon CPU, Model "FSP550-60PLN" - $99 as of 4/9/2004

Quote from GAUTAM:

as Hitechjb1 said, the 550W Fortron does not use a regular ATX connector.

Also, the 400W much more than suffices for mobile Bartons, period. It can handle a lot more than "light overclocking." Shouldn't get in the way of oc'ing at all.

5. Cooling.

You need a good fan for overclocking. There’s LOTS of options out there. Check the CPU database for your processor on http://www.overclockers.com and see a list of people’s configurations, and see what they’re using to cool with. Heavy overclocking, >2.6GHz will need water cooling. But if you’re wanting to cool in air like a sane person (joke), you’ll need to get a good fan.

I don’t really know what to suggest here. Probably a good copper heatsink from Thermaltake like their S7, and a Tornado fan on top of it. Wherever you get your CPU from, there will probably be an option to buy a fan too. Stick in the $15-$20 range and you should be ok.

From HITECHJB1:

The popular heat sink and fan for medium to high end socket A CPU overclocking are SLK-900U/947U, SP-97, and a TT SFII fan or Tornado 80 mm fan (with speed control).

The HS regular price is around $40, on sale maybe $25-35, plus a fan around $10-15. So the price for HSF would be around $35 - 55.

So… you thought you would sneak out for <$100 to get this computer going, but now you’re not so sure are you? Let’s see..

Let’s start with a light system.

2400+ processor $78
NF7 Motherboard $70
512MB OCZ memory $136
Fortron 400W power supply $62
Heatsink and Fan $40
Shipping $15

Total: $401! (or $515 with 1GB memory). You can probably go 2.2GHz (200FSBx11) with this system pretty easily, and not worry about shortening its life too soon.


For a Medium system, we’ll go with:

2500+ processor $95
NF7 Motherboard $70
512MB OCZ memory $136
Fortron 530W power supply $85
Heatsink and Fan $40
Shipping $15

Total: $441! ($555 for 1GB memory) This one can probably go 2.3 to 2.4 GHz.



And the heavy-duty overclocked performer:

2600+ processor $110
NF7 Motherboard $70
512MB OCZ memory $136
Fortron 550W power supply $99
Heatsink and Fan $40
Shipping $15

Total: $470! ($584 for 1GB memory). This one will probably get you closer to the 2.6GHz top end that most are seeing with air-cooled Mobile Bartons.

So there you have it… you can get a near top-of-the-line upgrade for $400-$600 depending on how aggressive you feel. The bait is there (the cheap CPU), but look at all the other stuff you’ll need too. Personally, I don’t know if I can afford it right now, so I may not bite… but wouldn’t it be fun?

Prices taken from:

http://www.newegg.com
http://www.directron.com
http://www.monarchcomputer.com

and of course,

http://www.pricewatch.com

 

[jonspd]

1 mobile barton2500
2 dif infinity mobo
3 BH-5
4 forton530
5 slk800 with tornado or sf2


P.s. Lookie my siggy and you will see.

 

[hitechjb1]

Re: BEGINNERS: What Hardware to Buy for Overclocking Mobile Barton

Welcome to the forums

This comes in a few flavors, the ones I've found are:

Model: 2400+
Stock: 1.8GHz (133FSBx13.5), ~$70 as of 4/9/04

Model: 2500+
Stock: 1.86GHz (133FSBx14), ~$80 as of 4/9/04

Model: 2600+
Stock: 2.13GHz , (133FSBx16) ~$100 as of 4/9/04

Newegg is currently selling a 2400+ for $78 and a 2500+ for $92, where can you get ~$70 for a 2400+ and ~$80 for a 2500+?

I suggest:
Fortron Source 400W Power Supply With 12CM Fan, Model "FSP400-60PNU-R1" for light overclocking, $62 as of 4/9/2004

Fortron 530W Power Supply, Model "FSP530-60GNA" - for medium loads, $85 as of 4/9/2004

Fortron 550W EPS12V PSU, Supports Dual Xeon CPU, Model "FSP550-60PLN" - $99 as of 4/9/2004

The ESP12V FSP550-60PLN has dual high A for 12 V, good for dual server system, but it may not be compatible w/ regular ATX AMD motherboards. Are you sure the connector of the EPS12V FSP550-60PLN PSU can fit the power socket without an extra adaptor. Does it come with an extra adapter for the regular AMD board?

For a Medium system, we�ll go with:

2500+ processor $80
NF7 Motherboard $70
512MB OCZ memory $136
Fortron 530W power supply $85
Heatsink and Fan $20
Shipping $15

Total: $406! ($520 for 1GB memory) This one can probably go 2.3 to 2.4 GHz.

And the heavy-duty overclocked performer:

2600+ processor $100
NF7 Motherboard $70
512MB OCZ memory $136
Fortron 550W power supply $99
Heatsink and Fan $20
Shipping $15

Total: $440! ($554 for 1GB memory). This one will probably get you closer to the 2.6GHz top end that most are seeing with air-cooled Mobile Bartons.

So there you have it� you can get a near top-of-the-line upgrade for $375-$550 depending on how aggressive you feel. The bait is there (the cheap CPU), but look at all the other stuff you�ll need too. Personally, I don�t know if I can afford it right now, so I may not bite� but wouldn�t it be fun?

The popular heat sink and fan for medium to high end socket A CPU overclocking are SLK-900U/947U, SP-97, and a TT SFII fan or Tornado 80 mm fan (with speed control).

The HS regular price is around $40, on sale maybe $25-35, plus a fan around $10-15. So the price for HSF would be around $35 - 55.


As for the choice of CPU, IMO, a mobile 2500+ (around $10 less) should overclock on the average as high as, if not higher than, a mobile 2600+.

Save the $10 (2500+ rather than a 2600+) on the CPU and get a better HS.

For memory pair for dual channel, getting a pair of memory of the same brand and model should be good enough. Don't pay extra for the matching pair of memory and save the money for other parts (since I don't even know how they match and test for the last 1 to few % of matching).

 

[Gautam]

Very nice post.

Although, as Hitechjb1 said, the 550W Fortron does not use a regular ATX connector.

Also, the 400W much more than suffices for mobile Bartons, period. It can handle a lot more than "light overclocking." Shouldn't get in the way of oc'ing at all.

 

[Squishy]

1. The prices I quoted are for the non-mobile, I think. So I'll edit that.

2. Thanks for telling me about the power supply connector! I didn't catch that, so I would have had problems if I ordered it. What suggestions can you make for an AMD board that would handle the overclocked Barton and peripherals?

3. Great info on the fans. I'll edit the post.

4. Not sure what you mean on your memory comment- I've read it a few times and it's not sinking in. Perhaps you could suggest a cheap solution (name brand/model)?

Thanks for your help... I hope all this helps someone in the future.

 

[hitechjb1]

Heat sink and fan, case cooling:

Recent high-end heat sink for socket A(page 19)
Fans(page 19)

Some remarks on case fans and cooling(page 19)


Memory:

Don't spend money for the "matching pair". Since some charge a huge premium for those "matching pair" memory and claim them would match better.
E.g if one stick costs $70, paying $140 for two sticks is fine. But if they ask an additional amount for that 2 sticks, I would not go for that, since I am not sure whether or how the two sticks were tested and picked.

For memory pair for dual channel, getting a pair of memory of the same brand and model should be good enough. Don't pay extra for the matching pair of memory and save the money for other parts.

For memory for nforce2 motherboard, PC3200 memory modules with Winbond 5ns BH5 chips are very popular and not as expensive as the top speeder such as PC4000 (which is not needed for nforce2 200-230 MHz FSB). Do not know whether the BH5's are still available (haven't follow memory market lately).

The Winbond BH5 chips have a good chance to get to 220+ FSB, which is the average high range for a nforce2 rev 2.0 motherboard (aka 400 Ultra), without extensive mod.

 

[hitechjb1]

As for the choice of CPU, IMO, a mobile 2500+ (around $10 less) should overclock on the average as high as, if not higher than, a mobile 2600+.

Save the $10 (2500+ rather than a 2600+) on the CPU and get a better HS.

Any difference between a mobile Barton 2400+ and 2500+?

Based on my impression from the various posts (not a completely scientific evaluation),
the mobile 2400+ has a good chance to do stably between 2.5 - 2.6+ GHz with around 2.0 - 2.1 V, 45 - 50 C, using a high end HS (such as the SLK-series) plus a high CFM fan (such as a 80mm Tornado, or TT SF II w/ 50 MHz less). Many can get a temporarily boot to as high as 2.7 - 2.8 GHz.

The mobile 2500+ seems to have about 100 MHz higher bias.


With high end water cooling, it would add another 100-150 MHz or so to the above numbers.


For price performance, the $20+ cheaper mobile 2400+ would be the best choice. $20 for only 100 MHz less on average.

For highest CPU MHz potential (satisfaction and/or competition), the mobile 2500+ would have a better chance.

 

[bafbrian]

Here is my $0.02 cents on the choices:

1. Mobile Barton 2400 or 2500
2. NF7-S Rev2 (older one) or DFI LP B
3. BH-5 ( Mushkin LvII, XMS, KHX )
4. Fortron 530W ( Adjustable Pots make it superb )
5. SLK-900U or SP-97 with Tornado ( Gonna need a rheo )

Just check my sig, the system is gonna rock once my new Fortron 530W gets here.

 

[hitechjb1]

Here is my $0.02 cents on the choices:

1. Mobile Barton 2400 or 2500
2. NF7-S Rev2 (older one) or DFI LP B
3. BH-5 ( Mushkin LvII, XMS, KHX )
4. Fortron 530W ( Adjustable Pots make it superb )
5. SLK-900U or SP-97 with Tornado ( Gonna need a rheo )

Just check my sig, the system is gonna rock once my new Fortron 530W gets here.

Concur, a good choice and should last until the dust and price settle down for a reasonably priced 939 CPU and motherboard combo, hopefully within about a year (?).

 

[Silent Buddha]

BH-5 is all gone. Winbond has left the memory market. Even CH-5 used to make the 2-3-2- ram is disappearing and getting much more expensive. If you've haven't noticed, low-latency low-speed DRAM is getting much more expensive to buy. Memory makers have low supplies of low-latency DRAM, they are getting more and more high-speed high-latency DRAM made for Intel boards. Only Mushkin has BH-6, in their 2-2-2- special, but cost $350 for 2x512MB and have only a few months supply.

 

[The Coolest]

The matchig memory is not even limited to the same memory type, brand of model, I'm personally running in Dual Channel with one stick of PC2100 Crucial which is double sided (dual bank) and a PC3200 Kingston which is single bank. Runs like a champ, zero problems what so ever.

 

[hitechjb1]

When buying more than one memory module, e.g. 2 modules of 512 MB to make up of 1 GB totol memory, it is preferably to buy two modules of the same brand and same model (text book says), so the various memory timing (RAS, CAS, ...) from the chips are the same according to their specification. So there is less a chance that one module would be specified "slower" than the other to get maximal benefit from the timing settings provided by the motherboard and bios.

Having said that, if one already have an existing module sitting around, and want to reuse and save, it is good to try it out and see whether the two or more modules from different brand/model would match functionally and even performance-wise.

Even if the performance would be set back by some cycles of memory timing, it would be a price performance call, and is up to one's choice.

I am also running memory modules of different brand/module in my nforce2 dual channel rig.

 

[Entimann]

can someone link me to the cheapest bh-5 or bh-6?

could be 2x 256 or 2x512

 

[bafbrian]

can someone link me to the cheapest bh-5 or bh-6?

could be 2x 256 or 2x512

You are going to be hard pressed to find some BH-5 nowadays considering that Winbond has stopped production. Also, the ppl that have memory aren't gonna let their "uber" RAM go for a cheap price. However, you should check out eBay to see if you can find a nice deal on the RAM. Now, you should be able to find some BH-6 easily, but the BH-5 stuff is gonna be harder to come by. Just wanted to give you heads-up on the situation.

 

[hey560]

Nice post, just what i needed since i'm buying one.

 

[dumbfish]

no no buy the 2600. i got the 2400 and i wish i got the 2600 why not have the best?

 

[Squishy]

But everything I've read says the 2400 can be pushed to the same limits as the 2600. What's wrong with your 2400?

 

[The Coolest]

usually the 2400+ are less overclockable. Mine needs 1.93v to be stable at 2.5GHz

 

[dumbfish]

mine needs more cooling.i just figure 2600 is a 2600 for a reason

 

[The Coolest]

2500+ is pretty close if not better than a 2600+. If I was buying now, I wouldn't get a 2400+ but a 2500+, I wouldn't recommend a 2600+ unless you got extra cash to burn.