whats holding me back?

[twump]

k i am pretty nub about overclocking. I can buid/repair them no prob but overclocking is still something i haven't played with much. my first attempt was on a PIII and ended up with a dead mobo.

so then i started playing with overclocking a geforce 3 and that worked out pretty well. now i'm back to cpu overclocking and am pretty sure my system can go farther then i can currently get it.

the fastest i can get so far is 11x152 or 12.5x133. i use 12.5x133 currently because its a bit more stable.here are my system specs

xp1800 tbred
ABIT kx7-333r
512 crucial pc2100
geforce 4 ti4200
2-20gb wd hd's in raid-0
soundblaster pci128
kingston nic
raidmax 500watt psu
cooling includes v11, active ram cooling kit, stock northbridge hsf
4 80mm intakes, 2 80mm exhaust, open side panel (will have 2 more 80mm exhausts when i finish with my side panel)

i would like to get this cpu to around 1800mhz but can live with mid 1700's. i currently get bsod's if i take the fsb above [email protected]. and i haven't tryed 11@152 in a while, but anything over that and i get bsod's and hd corruption.

whats next? should i play with ram timings? i've read through the memeory forums a little bit but i'm still a bit nervous about changing the settings i see in the bios other then the cas setting.

would swapping out the pc2100 for 2700 make a big difference in how high i can go with my fsb or should i swap out the nb hsf for something different? i have a blorb i can probably use.
if i didn't give nough system info let meknow and i'll pot whatever is needed.


thx twump

 

[RIPUS]

first of all, get at least pc2700 and if you can, get the pc3200 (corsair, ocz, crucial). The pc2100 is 133X2 (266) and your system can get easely at 166X2 (333) because is made for. Without anny overclocking, you should have the FSB set to 166 so you're system can go much higher. Some guy get around 2000mhz and can go trhu 2400-2600mhz with water cooling. You didn't mention the stepping of your cpu but the 1800+ is one of the most overclockable.

try this, get new mems then push-it a bit. You will see a big step between what you ad before and what you get now.

The cooling system is, for now on, enough good. Maybe if you push-it to extreme you will need more then what you have but the next step is water cooling.

 

[JigPu]

One thing that is holding you back at high FSB is your PCI divisor. I don't know exactly when 5 kicks in, but I think it's at 166. At your FSB at 152, that has your PCI at 38MHz, which is pretty much the maximum you can expect out of anything on the PCI bus.

You could try kicking the computer to 166 even without the RAM upgrade (since that would lower your PCI back to spec), but your luck will depend on just how good your RAM is (be sure to set the multi so your CPU would be at stock with the pumped FSB). If it can handle 166 (possible I think, but depends on the stick), then your set (though an upgrade would probably still be nice ).


JigPu

 

[twump]

the ram is from that deal a month or 2 ago from crucial. all i really know about it is its 64x64 cas2.5. 512MBx1 pc2100


my divisor is set like this right now


FSB:AGPCI 4:2:1


would changing it to 5:2:1 possibly give me the option of raising the fsb more since the pci would be running slower?i guess that makes sense. all the bsod's i got were errors with the video card n such, so now i know why. i think i'll try it and post the results.


thanks so far guys

 

[RIPUS]

yep

till you reach 166, your PCI gonna be underclock if you put it at 1/5.

with the crucial, you will be sure to go over 166 without problem.

 

[twump]

well i set my multi to 11.5 (default) and raised the fsb to 146 before it started to bsod and reboot. the divisor is set to 5:2:1

at 147 it would bsod right before the login screen (using win2k) and reboot automatically. so i have gained a few mhz but not much.


whats next?

 

[twump]

well i was just browsing my ram settings and noticed that currently my ram is running at 166mhz. is that normal since i have raised the fsb? shouldn't the ram be running at 146 not 166?

also i had my ram set to cas 2 for a while just to test it. while i was browsing i set it back to 2.5 and rebooted. right after i logged in i got an error stating that a memory address was unwritable. then another error saying lsass.exe couldn't execute and that my comp would restart in 1 minute. i couldn't even shut it down myself i had to wait for the timer because it said i didn't have access.

 

[RIPUS]

keep in mind your CPU is a 266 and your board is a 333. So, your're not gonna run at the same speed. we call it asynchronious (not sure for the spelling ).

when you adjust the PCI diviser, you divide the CPU speed by 4 (133/4=33) or by 5 (166/5=33) and not the mem speed.

other thing, i don't know your board but, in my case, the diviser change by itself at 133. So my pc run good at 133 (133/4=33) but don't even boot at 132 because my PCI is at 41 (132/3=41).


your error is probabily due to some data corruption. When your bus speed is too high, you get those kind of error. I had the same problem but wrost then your's. I had to made a low level format to clean my MBR. BTW, did you play with your mem voltage ? your mem is suppose to run at 133. Maybe at 166 you should increase the voltage a bit.

annyway, check it out and give some news. enough for me tonight
(i go to sleep, i'm too tired)

 

[Shade00]

twump, make sure your RAM is running in sync with the front side bus. Asynchronous memory speed (i.e. 166mhz memory with a 133mhz bus) actually degrades performance. There should be a setting somewhere in the BIOS that controls the DRAM clock. You want it 1:1 with the FSB.

What kind of 1800+ do you have? Look on the CPU, either on the die (Palomino) or the black label (Tbred), and tell us what's written on there. That way we can perhaps better judge what kind of overclocking potential your CPU has. If your 1800+ is a TbredA or a Palomino, I wouldn't be surprised if it's hit its ceiling. My old TbredA 1700+ stopped around that point too, and refused to go higher with any kind of voltage, even 2.0v.

Crucial PC2100 is pretty good for overclocking. I don't see why it wouldn't be able to handle a 166mhz FSB. Here's what I would suggest: lower your multi to 10, and raise the FSB to 166. This will give you 1660mhz, which is basically where you're hitting a wall with the CPU (11x152 and 12.5x133 are both around that area).

Run memtest86 to test the memory for stability and run Prime95 for a while to check CPU stability.

Let us know what kind of 1800+ you have. I have a feeling that your CPU is probably what's holding you back.

Edited for silly spelling typo.

 

[AcEmAsTr]

One thing that is holding you back at high FSB is your PCI divisor. I don't know exactly when 5 kicks in, but I think it's at 166. At your FSB at 152, that has your PCI at 38MHz, which is pretty much the maximum you can expect out of anything on the PCI bus.

You could try kicking the computer to 166 even without the RAM upgrade (since that would lower your PCI back to spec), but your luck will depend on just how good your RAM is (be sure to set the multi so your CPU would be at stock with the pumped FSB). If it can handle 166 (possible I think, but depends on the stick), then your set (though an upgrade would probably still be nice ).


JigPu

a divider of 1/4 is 152 max
my pally 1800+ does 11.5x152-1743mhz no prob

 

[twump]

well as i was typing this post the first time it bsod'd and rebooted so i dropped it down to 145 fsb.


don't quote me but i think my 1800 is a tbred b. i will verify later this evening.

in the memory section of my bios it gives me the option of running the ram at 100-133-166 or spd ( fsb speed?) it defaults to spd so thats what i have left it at

after looking through the memory options in my bios this part has be a bit puzzled.

it says my current fsb frequency is 166mhz
current dram frequency is 166mhz
dram clock by spd
dram timing is set to manual

now why is it saying my fsb is 166 when its actually 145?

shade00 i will try your ideas later and post results.


now about raising voltage. this makes me nervous. how much can i go up safely. and how do i know if i went to far?
should i up the mem voltage, cpu voltage or both ?


thx again guys

 

[twump]

current voltages are as follows

core voltage 1.500v
I/O voltage 3.50v
ddr voltage 2.55v

 

[twump]

tryed 10x166/ it lasted about 5 minutes. i got into a cs game and after my first kill hl.exe crashed that was the end of that.

 

[RIPUS]

you better put your mem clock at 133 so you're gonna be in 1:1 then ajust your FSB at 10x166

your core voltage is a bit low for overclocking. 1.5 is the default voltage for a t-bred. The palomino is at 1.75. As i see over the net, you can easely hit 1.65 without any problem. I even heard about 1.85 without problem.

i see somewhere on the net a DB of what kind of overclocking you can get with a t-bred 1800+ and you should be able to go around 2200mhz.

With the mem you got, i don't think you can get those speed but you should be albe to run 11.5X166=1900 mhz (thats my opinion, not a fact )

you should go step by step. if you're not stable at all, how can you find the "break point" of your system?

So
1- set your mem at 133
2- set your multiplier at 9.0X
3- set your FSB 166

then, start prime95 for about 1/2hrs. if everything is fine, try it higher (9.5X166). As soon as your system crash, you can start boost your voltage a bit. Never forget to check your temp. Keep a eye on it if you don't whant to blow your system.

I know, it's long and sometime drive you crazy but that's the only way you can findout the limit.

 

[twump]

well heres where i stand as of now. [email protected]
ran prime for about 25 minutes without any errors or instability.


now i have a new question.
on a few of the steps up to this point my comp would run prime no prob but if i load up CS within 2 minutes my screen would start flashing and textures would kind start glowing as the screen flashed. then i would get a runtime error and cs would quit.

so far i haven't touched the ram voltage or I/O voltage and my core voltage is up to 1.60v.would bumping the ram or I/O voltage solve the flashing textures problem or should i be looking somewhere else?

 

[twump]

nevermind i bumped the ram voltage to 2.65 and it seems to have solved the problem.


k i think i may have hit my max unless someone has some ideas for me.


i'm stuck at 10.5x166@1746 1.60v and 2.65 ram voltage

if i raise the multi to 11 it will go just past the bios screen and leave me with a black screen.i bumped the voltage to 1.65v but when i do that it will only go as far as the black win2k loading screen then gives me a kernel error. i tried raising the mem voltage but it didn't help.

my temps are still fine, the highest i've seen is 37c.

anyone got any ideas on what i should do next?

and thx for the help so far.

Twump

 

[RIPUS]

next step, you can push your mem a bit more but i don't think you can go alot higher with your mem. the thing is your mem should run at 133(266) and now you are running at 166(333).

also, you can change your mem for pc2700 or pc3200 then you gonna be able to push it more. pc3200 might be useless if you can't overclock your PCI whitout anny problem (thats my case )

Let say with you're first oveclock, you get about 19 mhz. That whould give you 185. 10.5X185=1942 mhz. Then you can also try 10X200 and hit the 2000 mhz. i'm pretty sure you can hit the 2000 with pc2700 stick if your PCI let you go that far as i said above.

annyway, it's up to you. you already get what you asking for in your first post

 

[twump]

yup i'm at a higher oc then i've ever had before thanks a bunch Ripus

last night before bed i managed to boot up at 11x166@1826 with 1.7v and run prime but it kept having errors after about 7 minutes. i'm gonna play with it a bit more and see if i canget it stable. if so i'm gonna stop and stick with it. if not i'm happy where i'm at now

 

[RIPUS]

it was a plesure

always funny to see how far guys can go with their stuff.

BTW, you might get it at 11 with voltage at 1.75 but it's your call

the last step whould be pushing your mem at the limit by step of one than when it crash, drop a bit . Me, i'm always let me 1 mhz of buffer (ex: 175 crash, i'll put it at 173).

tell us if you get the 11 stable

 

[TT600KHatf]

Could his sound card be holding him back? It is a SB PCI 128. I am a noob so forgive me if it has nothing to do with it.