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Why solvent and a rag will not remove all of the thermal grease from your HS.

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Colin

Arctic Silver Senior
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
For a few weeks I have tried to get people to realize that solvent and a rag won’t get all of the old thermal grease of your HS. You need to lap it. This will affect your temps and contaminates every thermal grease review that uses the same HS to test all of the samples. For those of you that don’t believe, Nevin has posted an eloquent explanation here:


Furthermore, I would like to thank Nevin for polishing my understanding of thermal transfer. What I have learned has been a great help in squeezing more speed out of my system.
 

NUTNDUN

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2001
Location
Newville, PA
Hey Colin,
Haven't seen ya post much here lately, then I see that ya got the bird up to 1320 now, congrats. I had mine up to 1320 stable but I don't like how hot that voltage chip gets. I think I am going to try and put a heatsink on it but I wanna get a digidoc and some more case fans (yes I still haven't done that yet) that way I can keep it a little cooler and keep an eye on it a little closer.
 

dimmreaper

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Location
home
I've been using a solvent that I have no doubt gets the heatsink 100% clean of old thermal compound. toiletbowl cleaner. It fizzes a bunch when It comes in contact with thermal compound. If you leave it on the heatsink long enough it will begin to disolve even the aluminum of the heatsink. Great stuff! I then clean the acid off with alcohol. I should run a similar set of tests to prove its effectiveness, but I'm too damn lazy.
 
M

Me

Guest
I used electrical CO2 cleaner to clean mine. Works perfectly. :)
I tried rubbing alcohol and nail polish remover and neither cleaned it off totally for me.
 

bdf24

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2001
Location
Harford, WI.
I use a Paper towel! And just wipe it off real good. I probobly miss a little but it looks clean, And I dont see any jumps in the temps.
 
OP
C

Colin

Arctic Silver Senior
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Did you guys check the link before you posted?
 
OP
C

Colin

Arctic Silver Senior
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Jeff Evans (Mar 05, 2001 06:14 p.m.):
I did, I'm still convinced that toiletbowl cleaner does the job.

Think we can get Nevin to do a test on it?:)

BTW Jeff, I knew you checked the link before you posted.
 

Metaxas

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2000
Jeff Evans (Mar 05, 2001 06:14 p.m.):
Colin (Mar 05, 2001 06:10 p.m.):
Did you guys check the link before you posted?
I did, I'm still convinced that toiletbowl cleaner does the job.

What brand of toilet bowl cleaner? I'm interested in that. Lemme know. ;D You know, that is just screwed right there, asking what brand of toilet bowl cleaner dude uses...haahaa .... ;D
 

Hoot

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Feb 13, 2001
Location
Twin Cities
I got a small problem with the over-simplification at the AS hotlink. Most thermal compounds use an oil as the carrier for the solid. The oil molecules are much smaller than the "micronized" solids. My gut feeling is that if you lap down both surfaces to quasi-mirror, the size of the voids and are such that the oil, not the solids pack into them. When I got my FOP-32, I lapped it meticulously. I then took it to work and ran it for a half hour in the Boiling TFE Vapor Degreaser along with the CPU. I then applied Dow Corning 340 Thermal Compound (the white stuff) to it. When I read about AS a few weeks later, I bought some, repeated the cleansing process and tried it. The result was no change in core temperature with all other factors remaining equal. I still use AS since I have to justify buying enough for about a guzzillion applications.

Hoot
 

AKDUDE

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2001
To get the grease off my heat sinks, I do the following,...
1. Dunk in bucket of gasoline for at least 1 month,
2. Heat the sink up to 1000 c
3. Take Hinksink to firing range, and shot it with AK-47 for a couple hours.
4. Take what's left, melt it down, and make a new Hinksink.
I have found this method to be the only way to POSITIVELY sure that all the Grease is off the sink.
OK I'm an *sshole, I know.

By the way that's a good link, I will lap my sinks from now on.
AKDUDE
 

dimmreaper

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Location
home
Metaxas (Mar 06, 2001 05:57 a.m.):
Jeff Evans (Mar 05, 2001 06:14 p.m.):
Colin (Mar 05, 2001 06:10 p.m.):
Did you guys check the link before you posted?
I did, I'm still convinced that toiletbowl cleaner does the job.

What brand of toilet bowl cleaner? I'm interested in that. Lemme know. ;D You know, that is just screwed right there, asking what brand of toilet bowl cleaner dude uses...haahaa .... ;D
"Industrial Cleaning Supply - Pinky" Its pink in color, and one good wiff will park your A$$ on the floor! Everything I buy is industrial strength, its just the way I am :)
 

Hoot

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Feb 13, 2001
Location
Twin Cities
I just spoke with the Tidy Bowl Man and he says go with a strong CFC or HFC solvent if you want a good "flush" mount :)

Hoot
 

Metaxas

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2000
Jeff Evans (Mar 06, 2001 07:21 p.m.):
Metaxas (Mar 06, 2001 05:57 a.m.):
Jeff Evans (Mar 05, 2001 06:14 p.m.):
Colin (Mar 05, 2001 06:10 p.m.):
Did you guys check the link before you posted?
I did, I'm still convinced that toiletbowl cleaner does the job.

What brand of toilet bowl cleaner? I'm interested in that. Lemme know. ;D You know, that is just screwed right there, asking what brand of toilet bowl cleaner dude uses...haahaa .... ;D
"Industrial Cleaning Supply - Pinky" Its pink in color, and one good wiff will park your A$$ on the floor! Everything I buy is industrial strength, its just the way I am :)


Where do you get this stuff at, send a link, or let me buy a squirt bottle of it off you... ;D I want my toilet...I mean, my cpu to be clean... ;D And Hoot, what is CFC, or HFC solvents? Can you give some examples? The reason for me doing all this, is i'm looking for an alternative to lapping, I want to lap as LITTLE as possible, (well, my block needs to be lapped, but pops is gonna fix that one) as I cannont see 20/20, and I don't wanna ruin core.

Oh yeah, and my cpu has a nice smooth surface direct from the factory...now, the question is, will it work when my new stuff gets here...I sure hope so. :)
 

dimmreaper

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Location
home
Metaxas (Mar 07, 2001 12:15 a.m.):Where do you get this stuff at, send a link, or let me buy a squirt bottle of it off you... ;D I want my toilet...I mean, my cpu to be clean... ;D And Hoot, what is CFC, or HFC solvents? Can you give some examples? The reason for me doing all this, is i'm looking for an alternative to lapping, I want to lap as LITTLE as possible, (well, my block needs to be lapped, but pops is gonna fix that one) as I cannont see 20/20, and I don't wanna ruin core.

Oh yeah, and my cpu has a nice smooth surface direct from the factory...now, the question is, will it work when my new stuff gets here...I sure hope so. :)
They don't sell over the net "ICS" Is a local business. You have to buy a gallon ($50) jug of concentrate when you buy it. The one gallon makes 11 gallons of mixed cleaner (after you cut it with water). Even after cutting it, it is still strong enough so that I never have to scrub the S__ter. Just spray it on an leave it on for about 5min. then flush. I hurts if you spill the concentrate on your hands (believe me this is strong stuff!). But don't take my word for it that it is a replacement for lapping, wait to see some tests (I don't want to do them).
 

Hoot

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Feb 13, 2001
Location
Twin Cities
Lapping and degreasing are only related by the components they serve. One is not a substitute for the other.

By CFC and HFC solvents, I mean such things as Flux remover, non-residue contact cleaner, automotive brake degreaser, etc. These products are available from any Electronics supply company, even Radio Shack. I have had better luck with the types that are not environmentally friendly and definitely not the kind that are organic compound based like citric acid. Best deal comes from Allied Electronics http://www.alliedelec.com , P/N 596-1003 "Flux Gone". Allied also sells a guzzillion brands of these solvents and I might mention Conformal Coatings also. Great Place.
 

Nagorak

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Colin (Mar 04, 2001 09:24 p.m.):
For a few weeks I have tried to get people to realize that solvent and a rag won’t get all of the old thermal grease of your HS. You need to lap it. This will affect your temps and contaminates every thermal grease review that uses the same HS to test all of the samples. For those of you that don’t believe, Nevin has posted an eloquent explanation here:


Furthermore, I would like to thank Nevin for polishing my understanding of thermal transfer. What I have learned has been a great help in squeezing more speed out of my system.

This is all well and good, but WTF are you supposed to do about your CPU? You can only lap your CPU so many times, if you dare to do so at all. I know for myself, I will not touch any Athlon/Duron processor with any sort of sand paper. I've crushed enough cores as it is already!

With this knowledge I may proceed to lap my heatsinks, rather than simply cleaning them with alcohol, but that still leaves the problem of the CPU. In the end, I guess we all need to realize that it is an imperfect world, with imperfect natural laws that we have to live by...
 

dgk

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2001
Location
Delray Beach FL
Nagorak (Mar 08, 2001 06:24 a.m.):
Colin (Mar 04, 2001 09:24 p.m.):
For a few weeks I have tried to get people to realize that solvent and a rag won’t get all of the old thermal grease of your HS. You need to lap it. This will affect your temps and contaminates every thermal grease review that uses the same HS to test all of the samples. For those of you that don’t believe, Nevin has posted an eloquent explanation here:


Furthermore, I would like to thank Nevin for polishing my understanding of thermal transfer. What I have learned has been a great help in squeezing more speed out of my system.

This is all well and good, but WTF are you supposed to do about your CPU? You can only lap your CPU so many times, if you dare to do so at all. I know for myself, I will not touch any Athlon/Duron processor with any sort of sand paper. I've crushed enough cores as it is already!

With this knowledge I may proceed to lap my heatsinks, rather than simply cleaning them with alcohol, but that still leaves the problem of the CPU. In the end, I guess we all need to realize that it is an imperfect world, with imperfect natural laws that we have to live by...
I disagree. I think that natural laws are perfect by definition. Sometimes they are inconvenient.
 

Metaxas

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2000
Nagorak (Mar 08, 2001 06:24 a.m.):
Colin (Mar 04, 2001 09:24 p.m.):
For a few weeks I have tried to get people to realize that solvent and a rag won’t get all of the old thermal grease of your HS. You need to lap it. This will affect your temps and contaminates every thermal grease review that uses the same HS to test all of the samples. For those of you that don’t believe, Nevin has posted an eloquent explanation here:


Furthermore, I would like to thank Nevin for polishing my understanding of thermal transfer. What I have learned has been a great help in squeezing more speed out of my system.

This is all well and good, but WTF are you supposed to do about your CPU? You can only lap your CPU so many times, if you dare to do so at all. I know for myself, I will not touch any Athlon/Duron processor with any sort of sand paper. I've crushed enough cores as it is already!

With this knowledge I may proceed to lap my heatsinks, rather than simply cleaning them with alcohol, but that still leaves the problem of the CPU. In the end, I guess we all need to realize that it is an imperfect world, with imperfect natural laws that we have to live by...

You know, you bring up really good point. I didn't even think of that. I guess you could only lap your stuff a certain number of times. hmmmm... that could get ugly. :) I believe that there has to be a "chemical" solution, like some of that flux gone from alliedelectronics. That's what I think i'm going to go with, hell its only 6 dollars for a can, and I can pick up some other small needed stuff while i'm there, to justify the shipping...
 

Remington

Registered
Joined
Jan 26, 2001
I'm new to this, what care needs to be taken regarding contact with the bridges, die, ect... when clening using these solvents, I've just always used papertowel, but can never get it clean. Can you just wipe the whole top of with the solvent and not ruin the chip? As you can see I'm a little perinoid about ruining the T-Bird.

Thanks Guys! Run-Em Cool!