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Will we ever get real dual boot options ?

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Xtreme Barton

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Where is our dual boot phones at ?

How can this be such a stepped over feature ?

They killed Microsoft unfortunately imo, they have a Lineage, magisk, etc .. etc ..

But why don't we really have dual+ boot options?

Is it strictly because the phone companies / government
Won't allow it ?

Makes no sense the hardware we currently have doesn't support it.

I'd love to have Microsoft, Linux , on my handheld .


I'm visiting wine country ATM..Merlot brings me here :D
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
For the most part, to me, a phone is a black box. I don't touch the OS or anything on my phones. Typically, for the first year or so of its life, I'm paying it off... can't really change it then. Once owned, I still want support and if something goes wrong, the ability to turn it in. If my ROM/OS is on there, they won't accept that.
 

dfonda

Senior Golfer
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
I look at them differently than 12 years ago. I need them to work 100% of the time and do every amazing thing I need them to do. Days of trying new ROM's are over with. It would be like hacking my sawzall to drill holes. I even found dual booting to be a PITA on a PC, it was easier to build another PC to run Linux.

I keep a phone for a year or 2 and move on. If you consider an $800 phone amortized over 2 years its $33.33 over 3 years $22 (Basically a cheap fast food dinner). For that I get GPS, Media/music for my car. Calendar, security camera app, calculator, weather. Google can give me every fact in the world to a degree. Time. date, fitness tracker. payment device. Messages , Browser, Notes. digital papers (This alone paid for my first iphone's $30 a month bill) and I do not have to recycle reams of paper. Home control and the list goes on.:cool:

I just can't see using something I depend on that much to also have to dual boot....why not get a spare phone? :shrug:

Phone manufacturing is no trivial business...it is enough that they work on one OS. thank goodness they do. I still think a phone is one of the most amazing devices ever built. I was never into cars that become boats or planes...:) IMHO
 
OP
Xtreme Barton

Xtreme Barton

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Cars that are boats and planes ?

A sawzall to drill holes ?


We're talking Operating systems that go on devices.


Lineage can go on a device.
Android can go on a device
Apple OSX can go on a device

We can put Linux on a PC
We can put Android on a PC
We can put OSX on a PC



As far as warranty isn't that why they provide the recovery aspect for your device should you need to return it to factory state ?

Just doesn't make sense after all these years why we don't have this.

Locked bootloader's arent much an issue anymore as the manufacturers are giving you the unlock code.


People obviously like the idea of being able to put lineage on Android.

Until a phone has proper hardware to install a full OS I guess we will wait
 

Janus67

Benching Team Leader
Joined
May 29, 2005
But isn't Lineage just Android but generally used by those with phones whose support has expired but some nice person maintains it on the other line?
 

hokiealumnus

Water Cooled Moderator
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
What he said. Lineage is just Android with new features added and occasionally a minor facelift. There is very little functional difference between stock Lineage and stock Android. Also as he mentioned, Lineage is great to get old phones on newer versions of Android.

As for dual booting, the partitions on newer android systems are rather fixed. You can wipe and install stuff on the partitions, but you can't make new partitions. {EDIT - I was wrong, you can partition phone storage. It's not easy and requires more learnin' than I have, but it's possible. See petteyg359's post below.} That would be a prerequisite for a dual-boot system. I don't think the hardware manufacturers are keen on letting people mess with partitioning a phone. There is just no reason for them to even bother thinking about it.

I can say with absolute certainty that people wanting to modify their phone are far less than 1% of the market. They have no motivation to write software or consider supporting third parties that may want to write software to do what would be needed. If there's no money in it, they're not going to bother. So it's not a hardware issue. I'm sure our pocket computers are more than capable of running a dual-boot system. We just won't get one because there's nothing in it for them.

Then there is the driver problem. A main reason it's hard to get new Android versions of Lineage to work on older hardware is because the hardware is no longer supported with new drivers. That gets exponentially more important if you want to run a completely different OS (Windows mobile or iOS for instance). With no drivers, even if you had partitions on which to install multiple OS'es, your phone will never boot up.

All of that said, there IS a potential for dual-booting different versions of the same OS version with Lineage, for instance to test a new build. I used to build Lineage so we needed to figure out of the new build borked anything. The way Android updates work now (since Android 8/Oreo) is that they install the OS on one of two hidden OS partition, using the same user data in the data partition so all of your settings/apps/etc don't change. When the system reboots after the update, it boots to the partition with the newer OS version on it. There used to be a way to switch between those partitions. I'm not sure if that's still a thing as it has been two years since I have built anything. This -can't- be done with two different versions of Android or two different OS'es (i.e. Lineage vs. a different non-LOS based OS like ionOS) because the single data partition is not interchangeable unless you want problems.

Finally, the risk of bricking a phone is very, very real. That is usually a soft-brick and recoverable, but there are times when you mod a phone into a useless brick. It's not like people are going to be able to de-solder their storage chips and install a new one. You'd have to replace the motherboard entirely, assuming there aren't hardware versions that make a different motherboard not work with the rest of the phone.

(Also, I'm not sure where you get the idea that manufacturers are handing out keys for rooting and modifying phones. They have increasingly made that harder and harder year after year. You haven't been able to root Snapdragon-based Samsung phones for years. The only phones that I know will intentionally allow you to modify anything are Pixels you buy from Google [and you're giving up any secure applications like banking/Google Pay by opting to do so unless Magisk Hide works again] and OnePlus.)
 

dfonda

Senior Golfer
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Barton what the heck is unacceptable with the phone you have now? :shrug:I don't even like using Windows on my PC but I am a PC gamer and my PC with Linux is good and solid...

The xda developers are geniuses with compiling custom ROM's but for me they were still always just a novelty. Google/Samsung and Apple are not going to make money without their services.

Windows phones? I remember them as fast and innovative but as much of a walled garden as Apple....It is not going to play nice with linux if they even still existed...Like the dinosaurs they had their time.:p
 

hokiealumnus

Water Cooled Moderator
Joined
Oct 14, 2007