win 10 DVD install fail on New SSD, AzRock 970, AMD

[afpTeam]

Hi,

Unsure if this should be in the hardware or OS forum, so I went with the hardware side as the first cause.

I took over a friends machine that took a lightening surge 6 months ago which damaged the MOBO, replaced with same model mobo, standard clocking, used, tested, worked with new Win 10 network update install. Then a month later hard disk became undetectable. No surprise, been down the lighting path before. Yes, lightening does strike the same place twice, LOL

The failed drive, was a 1T Seagate.
An accessory 160 GB Seagate remained detected as unused spare, reads fine.

I purchased a 250 Gb WD Blue 3D NAND SSD, popped it in where the 1T used to be.

I understood if one downloads the Win 10 os from Microsoft site as .iso, a bootable dvd can be used to install the OS, move on with install to re-activate.

Sites suggested the installer should find the SSD, offer drive install selection, partition, format and install.

I configured UEFI to set DVD as first, SSD second, spare 160 GB as third, saved, rebooted.

The boot brought up the win 10 icon, moved to installation and reported "No drivers found for device".
I reconfigured to the 160 GB drive priority, rebooted, "No drivers found for device".

Grrrrr.

After searching the boot disk for drivers it found nothing usable so I tried some Google.

Some say the MOBO is lacking basic driver files for SATA operation.
Doubt that, or it wouldn't find all the SATA devices would it ?
It reads the folder / files on the 160 Gb, ok.

The bios SATA mode is set for Combined IDE, in IDE mode, (wondering about AHCI)

Without netwosk services yet installed it cannot fetch drivers.
Western Digital says always us OS drivers, no help there.

It seems my bootable dvd is missing drivers to enable anything except bios to DVD bootsrap.

i'm kind of loss at this point, if anyone has seen this kind of fail before, please advise suggestions.


Thanks as always to the best on the web at OC.

Mike

 

[Janus67]

And the drives all appear as normal in bios? If you download and make a bootable Ubuntu DVD/flash drive does everything appear there?

 

[Robert17]

Also try disconnecting the two HDDs and leaving the DVD attached via a non-shared PCI SATA port to see if you can get it to read. You don't list the system specs so as to know how many open PCI channels are available. You may have to move your SATA cable for starters.

 

[trents]

Echo Robert17. You should never do a Windows install with more than just the system drive installed. Windows gets confused and can install in such a way as to be dependent on the secondary drive's presence in order to work.

Having said that, are you certain the 250gb SSD is has even been initialized? A drive must first be initialized before it can be detected by an OS. Normally, they are initialized from the factory but there are cases when that is not so. I got a 2TB Seagate hard drive the other day, a brand new enterprise class drive that was not. If you have a USB cradle this is easy to do from a working Windows computer using Windows 10 Disk Manager.

The other potential issue is that your SATA ports are split between two SATA controllers. This was common in that generation of motherboard when there were more SATA ports on the board than the primary SATA controller could handle. So the manufacturers added a second controller, usually by Marvel, that controlled the others. The Marvel controller typically did require an aftermarket driver before those ports could be used. I'm not sure if Windows 10 has native drivers for the Marvel controllers or not. So make sure the SSD is connected to SATA port 0 which should be controlled by the primary SATA controller.

 

[afpTeam]

Thanks to many,


@ Janus67, Yes the drives appear in bios and when I loaded an bootable NIX DVD tool they seemed to be there. The drives appear in the EUFI utility under the Storage Config. I made sure to try both the hard disk and the new SSD positioned in the Sata3_1 slot which did identify them correctly each attempt. Sata mode identifies as IDE mode, with Combined mode option enabled.

@ Robert17, the EUFI config shows Sata3_1 through Sata3_5 and under that is eSATA. There are five physical SATA ports on the board, which I initially read incorrectly, wanting the boot drive to be at port 0 which it was not. As I reconfigure I WILL set the single, only boot drive device to be first priority accessing lowest physical port, permitting boot failure to fall to the DVD for install, maybe that helps.

@ trents, I should have clarified both attempts at SSD and HD spare were done with ONLY one drive installed. I thought I had written that to be evident but likely not in retrospect. Ditto port 0 but I show these as ports 1 through 5 on the board and in bios, unless maybe they enumerate as 0-4 in OS. I'll try the boot drive in SATA3_1 and the DVD to SATA3_3 to fail to (suggested on another site) There are 5 SATA ports on the mobo same as bios shows, located at the right corner of the board, two atop of three. The only ports physically identified are the top two ports as below...


________ SATA3_3 SATA3_1
SATA3_5 SATA3_4 SATA3_2, These three legends hidden but I assume as shown here.

So... For now I scrap worrying about the spare HD and stick to the SSD only.

The SATA mode in bios is showing "IDE" below which is SATA combined mode "enabled".

I'm not sure but I'm thinking SATA mode should be defaulting to AHCI for SSD, but I don't completely understand if combined is an auto-detect override maybe, if anyone can confirm?

Regarding drive initialize. I popped the SSD into my Win 7 laptop by USB drive cable and hit disk manager, the SSD is shown as NOT initialized, showing the SSD as 239 Gig drive.

This now suggests the spare HD (having a prior XP install on it and bootable) was likely only left there to keep the prior XP data files available but was never meant to be a dual "Boot to XP" option, which struck me odd to begin with. When the boot HD first failed the bios defaulted down to the XP spare disk and tried to boot it, which always came back as not having been activated. For now that HD drive will remain out of the machine.

I thought the Win10 install would initialize the drive but I can see this might not be viable. This brings the question if I should initialize it in the Win 7 machine, with question next about MBR versus GUID? Seems GUID might be better for redundant boot records. Can I initialize in Win 7 showing as drive 1, make it bootable GUID then would I need to partitiion and format 256 per sector and last, move it to the new machine? This all used to be Fdisk routines in older days before I became a dinosaur.

If alll that gets set right per recommendations here, if to still fail the last question will end up being if the bootable DVD some how is actually missing its drivers, (which now seems unlikely), I'll need to figure out where the drivers should be in the boot routine and confirm they're there.

Thanks again to everyone, this is such a great community!

Mike

 

[trents]

The real issue in whether or not you initialize the SSD in MBR or GTP (aka, GUID) is the bios of the motherboard. If the bios of the motherboards supports UEFI then use GPT. If it does not and has a "legacy" bios, you must go with MBR.

Edit: You will find this a very handy tool for partition management: https://www.filehorse.com/download-partition-wizard-home/41648/ This is a slightly older version you can't get anymore from the author's website. The newest free version eliminated the ability to convert a MBR disk to GPT and vise versa.

 

[afpTeam]

The real issue in whether or not you initialize the SSD in MBR or GTP (aka, GUID) is the bios of the motherboard. If the bios of the motherboards supports UEFI then use GPT. If it does not and has a "legacy" bios, you must go with MBR.

Edit: You will find this a very handy tool for partition management: https://www.filehorse.com/download-partition-wizard-home/41648/ This is a slightly older version you can't get anymore from the author's website. The newest free version eliminated the ability to convert a MBR disk to GPT and vise versa.

Well, that was a soft fail. The fileshare link stuffed me with LavaSoft.WebAssistantService.exe, which borked my Firefox configuration, dumpted all my tabs, defaulted me to Bing. No biggy, all better.

MiniTool however seems to be a nice tool for a free version, thanks.

MiniTool exposed a hidden partition on the SSD, which comes fixed from the WD factory.

When i view it in MiniTool by usb cable on my Win7 Machine it shows Disk 2 GBT (Other) 128 MB as "GPT reserved Partition", File system type as "Other" (which is full)

The remainder of the drive I partitioned (as E colon) and formatted at 256 Byte NTFS, hoping the installer in the target machine would locate it and overwrite it to become Primary, bootable and allow me to identify it as C:

STILL NO LUCK.

In UEFI I made sure secure boot is off.
The drive IS detected as first channel SATA3_1 of 6 total, DVD set as SATA3_3
SATA mode is AHCI
AMD AHCI Bios ROM enabled
SATA combined mode enabled

The boot fails the SSD priority, fails over to DVD, runs installer then comes back again with the same message as follows...

Dialog title is "Load Driver"
A media driver your computer needs is missing. This could be a DVD, USB or Hard disk driver. If you have a CD, DVD or USB flash drive with the driver on it. please insert it now. [...]You can safely remove the installation media to do this. (Options to Browse, OK, or Cancel. This is a modal dialog sitting on a bigger dialog "Select Driver to Install".

It's like the drive is ready to be managed, but the bootable DVD installer doesn't have a driver on board to talk to the WD Blue SSD.

Western Digital doesn't provide support drivers for it that I could find, but to say the OS provider will have all essential drivers.

I did just notice on last attempt when I fail the dialog and rescan the inside the installer it does now FINALLY show the SSD is present and allocated as C colon, so at least THAT part is a victory you got me through. That almost surely says it's driver related some how.




MIKE.

 

[trents]

Sorry about the unwanted software, Mike, that you encountered while downloading the minitool partition wizard. I had gotten the minitool PW from another place where there was a lot of klick bait but I actually had not tried the website I gave you to get minitool. I did download the minitool executable from the website I linked you without any issue bu I have not actually executed it to see if it's bundled with PUPs.

Here's what I would suggest trying next. Using either command prompt with or Windows PowerShell with admin privileges, use the diskpart command to list, select the SSD and then use the "clean" command option with diskpart. That will wipe the entire drive, including hidden partitions. Then you will need to use The Windows Disk management tool in order to initialize the SSD.

 

[Robert17]

You may need a BIOS update as well if the board took another lightning strike but is still in working condition.

 

[afpTeam]

@ Robert, Trents,

Thanks again, but look at THIS mess...

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...r/3068a127-f088-44a2-af36-ba90a1604855?page=1

More than 8 pages detailing the MS mis-allocation of driver support by devices install to DSS, either missing or otherwise. Most are related to USB 2.0 / 3.0 mobo USB driver support. Since I'm doing ISO to DVD, this doesn't seem to apply AFAIS. It seems like a bad image or image selection config most likely. I've tried two images, 3 R+DVD's.

I may try burning a DVD on my daughter's Win 10 lappy and see if the windows 64 bit image model might affect it. I hate to do a mobo bios update on a machine that was previously runnable, but the 970 Extreme3 shows P1.80 version if I can confirm it's behind on SSD support with an update available.

As long as the ONLY drive present is identified in UEFI proper as it is, prioritized to boot, I think I have to see if I can sort this out by looking for a very similar issue poster / response. Some how I think it actually is a driver issue, but I cannot tell which drivers but to assume the WD Blue SSD driver, (or a MS specific if WD might tell me).

Whole day gone, but at least the drive got init. and being recognized properly, so not a total loss, just more learning than I wanted. LOL

Thanks till more, after sleep.

Mike

 

[afpTeam]

Well, seems in fact it is an MS issue with AI, (Automated Ignorance)

I might be an ex unix file manager grunt from the 70's but C colon is recognized as boot device. Install fails, go to repair options, fire up Command Prompt, CD to C drive, MKDIR, let there be asdf, low and behold it was so that on day two asdf directory was created. And it was GOOD and all the subjects said RMDIR and it was good the second day.

So, it is actually a missing driver issue because the windows install dvd from iso as command prompt can and does write to the SSD. That fairly rules out a mobo bios issue at least in the most basic sense and certainly confirms drive config is read / writable, regardless of bootable status until installer gets done some day.

Now then if I was an inept MS installation script monkey, what drivers would I fail to provide?... hmmm Would that be a generic SSD driver and if so by what name hath it escaped yon Monkey?

The search continues... Should I take the blue Pill and wake up just as I was... Or should I take the Red pill?

Mike

 

[afpTeam]

SOLVED

Now then... Nix monkey or not, no half baked MS script monkey gonna hold the man down...

Once upon a time in the OC world, did help built fantabulous clocker box.
Clockster says... Order Win 10 on USB from "This" place or another and did I, yes.

After reformatting Nix brain, recalled and found such USB stickem.
Jacked in to power up and whoooo hoooo, install report says FAIL monkey, "Drive C must be MBR".

Hmmmm doth think this means mobo bios maybe not so upstep happy.

Back to lappy with MiniTool, partition convert to MBR, confirm, complete.

Back to target machine, jack in SSD, jack in stickem, power button and... and... wait for it....



I MAKE FIRE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to Win Frikken Ten, installing, please wait, yada, yada, SUCESS.

Thanks everyone... All about persistence, assistance and proof you never know what you don't know.

 

[trents]

So it was a partition scheme issue after all. Had a notion it was. That generation of motherboard was in the transition era from MBR to UEFI.

By the way, you can go to the Microsoft Media Creation tool web page and build your own Wind 10 USB installer.

 

[afpTeam]

The MS builder tool is how I fetched the install to iso.
I used the win 7 tool to burn the iso once and WinIso to burn the second alternate DVD.
It seems I likely did need to Init the drive as Windows reported the drive not initialized.
Windows drive tools I initialized it to the newer format which the mobo DID recognize.
The CD versions NEVER did succeed.
When I found my conventional Win10 USB stick, that made the difference.
The install proceeded and detected the drive needed to be formatted to MBR.

So, either I didn't configure the bios right for EUFI to use the better format or BIOS only writes MBR.
I reformatted the SSD as MBR and the conventional win10 stick took off finally.
I did find the OS won't boot when I select anything other than IDE type SATA, combined.
Secure mode was re-enabled.

Last after updating the install I put the mobo in auto clocked mode and zoooom, away it went, happy as can be.

I'm pretty sure if not for the bad ISO file from MS to DVD, I never would have known an issue.
I would bet the SSD hidden support partition would have communicated to the USB stick fine and completed.

Any how, yeah prolly true the MOBO is transitional and I'll leave it there to avoid risk of botched bios retool.
At least until backup is working.

Mike

 

[trents]

The MS builder tool is how I fetched the install to iso.
I used the win 7 tool to burn the iso once and WinIso to burn the second alternate DVD.
It seems I likely did need to Init the drive as Windows reported the drive not initialized.
Windows drive tools I initialized it to the newer format which the mobo DID recognize.
The CD versions NEVER did succeed.
When I found my conventional Win10 USB stick, that made the difference.
The install proceeded and detected the drive needed to be formatted to MBR.

So, either I didn't configure the bios right for EUFI to use the better format or BIOS only writes MBR.
I reformatted the SSD as MBR and the conventional win10 stick took off finally.
I did find the OS won't boot when I select anything other than IDE type SATA, combined.
Secure mode was re-enabled.

Last after updating the install I put the mobo in auto clocked mode and zoooom, away it went, happy as can be.

I'm pretty sure if not for the bad ISO file from MS to DVD, I never would have known an issue.
I would bet the SSD hidden support partition would have communicated to the USB stick fine and completed.

Any how, yeah prolly true the MOBO is transitional and I'll leave it there to avoid risk of botched bios retool.
At least until backup is working.

Mike

Another transitional clue. Transitional technologies usually present a lot of inconsistencies/irregularities/idiosyncrasies compared to their mature forms.

 

[afpTeam]

That kind of figures cuz we didn't find many of these mobos available as a replacement after the lightening loss. The Mobo was purchased as used, tested, with a guarantee on install.

If it was a gamer constantly working to build performance likely would have been aggravating as tech progressed.

Still, it's a pretty zippy little setup all things considered. Has a GTX 550 Ti graphics card.

With 16 Gig of ram it would be limiting but I could do basic CAD work on it.

This box goes back to my friend and he uses it simply for typical PC.

Sadly, he had not backed up the hard drive after we replaced the MOBO, even having warned him of capacitor damage delayed fails from lightening. I just Installed MiniTool's ShadowMaker and configured his backups at least to the spare hard drive. He can back his docs folder to a USB stick to keep it out of socket safe. Lesson learned maybe this time. LOL

 

[afpTeam]

FYI, the LavaSoft swipe is coming from the MiniTool installs, not the driveshare.

It followed me to the new machine which I downloaded direct from the MiniTool website.

That's sad, but everyone has bills to pay I guess.

Stay healthy, safe, distant, Only practice safe computing, use a buffer. ROF

Mike

 

[trents]

Yes, you have to watch every screen during any freeware installation process. Seems like I remember the LavaSoft option presented during the minitool installation. I just declined it and unchecked the box.