Win 10 Home forcing bad update (Anniversary?)

[trents]

I think there will still be support of some sort just like there was/is with XP. Too many machines running win7 ATM. I work in part of a huge corporation that just replaced all it's XP machines with new Win7 systems. I can't see them toosing thousands of systems in four more years. There will be preesure on MS to keep supporting Win7 at least in some form anyway. Just my opinion.

But not for end users I don't think. The extension of XP support is for corporate "Point of Sale" customers. Though someone has developed a hack to trick XP into seeing your machine as one of those to be able to get those ongoing updates.

 

[EarthDog]

The extension of XP support is for corporate "Point of Sale" customers

In other words... cash registers that run XP.

 

[trents]

In other words... cash registers that run XP.

More than that for sure. The healthcare industry for one. I can testify to that personally as I recently retired from that world and know they are still dependent on a XP because of all the specialized apps they use that have not yet been ported to later OS's. A very expensive undertaking it is to change all that over and the companies that produce those apps are not necessarily cooperating with updated programs because they are small concerns and don't have the resources to keep up with Microsoft's OS evolution pace.

 

[EarthDog]

Well, that's what a point of sale machine is...

 

[c627627]

Every machine is a sale machine if used for business therefore by that definition?
Cash registers are not the only or main reason Windows XP continues to receive security patches regularly just like Windows 7/8/10.
(Powerful) business interests hold sway over Microsoft when it comes to that.

Someone on the forums was talking about how they forced removing activation completely from Windows XP.
They were going to switch away from Microsoft, and Microsoft sent a man in to see what they can do.
The Microsoft man was told "you can keep activation on these machines if you sign a paper that says you will compensate us for any and all losses that come about as a result of activation problems" or we walk.

Microsoft agreed, collected untold millions of dollars for a massive number of machines which ran without activation requirements... on Windows XP.
They are probably running to this day.

 

[EarthDog]

There is of course more to it than cash registers... but by in large, POS units are mostly that. A lot of the software on POS machines can do more than exchange a good or service for money at the close of the transaction (which again by definition is a POS machine - I can use my PC for "business" but that doesn't make it a POS machine). Functions such as inventory and warehousing among other things. I know some companies call it a Retail Management System (have a lil sis in law that worked retail management for years), particularly when it handles more than just the monetary transactions.

A retail point of sale system typically includes a cash register (which in recent times comprises a computer, monitor, cash drawer, receipt printer, customer display and a barcode scanner) and the majority of retail POS systems also include a debit/credit card reader.

The point of sale (POS) or point of purchase (POP) is the time and place where a retail transaction is completed. At the point of sale, the merchant would calculate the amount owed by the customer and indicate the amount, and may prepare an invoice for the customer (which may be a cash register printout), and indicate the options for the customer to make payment. It is also the point at which a customer makes a payment to the merchant in exchange for goods or after provision of a service. After receiving payment, the merchant may issue a receipt for the transaction, which is usually printed, but is increasingly being dispensed with or sent electronically.[1][2][3]

To be able to calculate the amount owed by a customer, the merchant may use any of a variety of aids available, such as weighing scales, bar code scanners, electronic and manual cash registers. To make a payment EFTPOS terminals, touch screens and a variety of other hardware and software options are available.

The point of sale is often referred to as the point of service because it is not just a point of sale but also a point of return or customer order. Additionally, today POS software may include additional features to cater for different functionality, such as inventory management, CRM, financials, warehousing, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_sale


I bet there are some POS machines in a hospital (gift shop, cafeteria), but the rest is likely handled by servers on a network with the device using XP on laptops (newer places use tablets). So its a different situation there all together, no?


EDIT: I don't know what a POS machine is in Microsoft's eyes either, LOL!

 

[Pinky]

I know some of our eye care medical clients have eye exam machines running XP. They're simply blocked from the internet [LAN only access] to get around HIPA's security requirements.

 

[EarthDog]

I'm just not sure how MS defines it...that may be part of a POS system including your cash register for the POS transaction.

 

[c627627]

The big picture, to clarify, is that yes there are point of sale machines running Windows XP but even though the term POS machines is used to describe why Windows XP lives -- this is not about Cash Registers... it goes far beyond that.

Windows XP (security updates and with them the OS itself) lives because of machines that are not point of sale machines in the narrow sense of the word. Governments and companies who are not using it on POS machines pay for continued security updates, to the benefit of all of us who have grandparents and parents still on Windows XP, which gets patched as a result, pretty much as often as my Windows 10 does when it comes to major security patches.

 

[EarthDog]

Correct. It's also made available for governments and large organizations who pay for a support contract to get the updates (note it's critical updates...important are extra, lol!). The Navy pays, what 9M /year or something? I think tbe UK pays as well...

The large fees are more punitive in nature to 'encourage' them to upgrade. That is a different model than the POS upgrades which are free for those 'registered' as POS units...

One can discuss if the chicken or the egg came first, or we can look at the actual differences here. The POS machines have a specific flag in the registry telling windows update what OS it is (Windows Embedded POS READY 2009). I would be my life says these organizations are not 'editing' that registry entry to make it look like the POS OS so it can get updates. These large organizations are using vanilla XP just as we used to. Again you can argue the few differences there are between the XP and the Embedded POS 2009 version, but, it's clear these are completely different models for different versions of XP. Surely some of the updates are the same just as sure as i am some are different between them. That is assuming I'm understanding things right, lol!

 

[Audioaficionado]

We have old POS machines that are Microsoft software, but are closer to 98 than XP. I see DOS screens when they boot up.

 

[Tech Tweaker]

You can change to another theme if you don't like the Windows 10 light theme, just like you can with any previous version of Windows. Therefore, I don't consider that a valid criticism. In 4 years you will have no choice but to move to 10 because all support for Win 7 will be gone.

Considering I COULDN'T change it no matter what I did in the themes area, I think it's pretty valid.

In 4 years I will have a choice, Linux or Win 8.1. Or whatever OS Crapple is on at the time. Or stick with 7 and tell MS where they can take 10 and shove it.

Well, technically a lot of their customers will have a choice to make in four years.

 

[EarthDog]

You should be able to change the theme. THe only way you, supposedly, can't is if the OS isn't activated. That said, there isn't really a 'light' theme. They are all pretty dark, Windows and Windows 10 theme. Aside from that, you can get more for free...




If not there, you can do it this way...: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...-Information?p=7845168&viewfull=1#post7845168

 

[trents]

There is of course more to it than cash registers... but by in large, POS units are mostly that. A lot of the software on POS machines can do more than exchange a good or service for money at the close of the transaction (which again by definition is a POS machine - I can use my PC for "business" but that doesn't make it a POS machine). Functions such as inventory and warehousing among other things. I know some companies call it a Retail Management System (have a lil sis in law that worked retail management for years), particularly when it handles more than just the monetary transactions.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_sale


I bet there are some POS machines in a hospital (gift shop, cafeteria), but the rest is likely handled by servers on a network with the device using XP on laptops (newer places use tablets). So its a different situation there all together, no?


EDIT: I don't know what a POS machine is in Microsoft's eyes either, LOL!

But in reality and in the context of this discussion, when it comes to OS updates, Microsoft's definition is the only one that counts. Actually, as I think about it, Microsoft may be continuing XP updates under other labels in different business environments. Their arrangements with health care systems for doing this may be called something else than POS. I was assuming it was POS only because those updates are are actually labeled with that "POS" when you do that registry hack that turns the end user machine into a Point of Sale Machine.

 

[EarthDog]

It's called a support contract. They are paying for it. As was previously stated, for governments amd large corporations you can still get these updates, but you are paying through the nose for it.

Those that are paying for it, are not doing it for the POS Embedded OS but for vanilla XP. Again, some updates are surely the same, some will be different.

See post 30.

 

[Audioaficionado]

My hospital migrated from XP to 7 a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if they will ever move to 10 unless they can lock it down. With the strict HIPAA privacy regulations it's impossible with today's winten.

 

[satrow]

Back to the original issue, if I may, there's been some sort of 'fixit' tool released for AU issues: New MS Tool to repair problems with Anniversary Update available

A drawback with going the clean install route is that you lose the ability to rollback to your chosen graphics (or any other) driver version - MS no longer allows non-signed (WHQL?) drivers with AU. From an upgrade, you can rollback a driver, from a clean install you can't.

 

[Leegit]

muh thread

downloaded the windows media tool and got the OS on a flash drive. will try the clean install tonight

 

[Kenrou]

Aren't ATM machines/cashpoints running XP in several countries still ? They got a revamp a couple years ago in Portugal, were still on it.

 

[Alaric]

Back to the original issue, if I may, there's been some sort of 'fixit' tool released for AU issues: New MS Tool to repair problems with Anniversary Update available

A drawback with going the clean install route is that you lose the ability to rollback to your chosen graphics (or any other) driver version - MS no longer allows non-signed (WHQL?) drivers with AU. From an upgrade, you can rollback a driver, from a clean install you can't.

I'm running a non WHQL driver package (16.8.2) from AMD now in W10 Pro. I foresee some issues between nVidia/AMD and M$ on that point.