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Windows backup in Win10

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shadowdr

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2001
I have Win10 now and am having backup problems. I also am running Windows classic shell, which could be the problem. Backup is exceeding the size limit placed on it by Win backup and I cannot change it. It does not give me an option to delete prior backups, just shows a single backup. If I chose to restore it will show previous sets if I chose show all backups but not the option to chose it to delete. I should say that it shows Windows backup and restore (windows 7), perhaps due to Classic Shell or because it had backup images prior to the 10 upgrade. Is there an actual Win10 backup similar to the one that was in 7 and looks like what I am using? I actually purchased Acronis true image to use but it does not seem to recognize it's own backups that reside on the same drive as the Win7 backup. I would like to uninstall Acronis and use the Win10 version but only find the 7 version in control panel. Any help would be appreciated.
 

The_Jizzler

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Win10 is really designed to use one drive as its backup solution. Not sure about the built in native one and how it works vs win 7.

I wonder if you saved you acronis backups to a target disk other than the one use for win backup, if acronis could then see the backups.
 
OP
shadowdr

shadowdr

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2001
It is hard to say now what Acronis needed to work but I think it was designed as a disk copy software as apposed to backup and wanted an external drive to backup to. I ended up deleting it as it was useless for an actual automatic backup solution. I do have a terabyte SSD that I am using for backup with six drives total in my system. I think that Win10 introduced something new which I was not aware of that accesses each drive independently and must be turned off for each drive that you don't want to backup. I have a few external's that I have cloned the storage drives to and don't need to back them up as I can still clone with my old IBM DOS. Win10 has a separate program in addition to backup and restore called file history which backs up My Documents, Music, downloads and Pictures. I just found out about it and turned it back off as that is the purpose of having six drives for me. I have a downloads, Files and Storage drives where I keep all of the files it was backing up. I deleted that one folder from the backup drive and regained 250 gigs of space. It is truly a learning thing as I always just used Windows backup and had different drives that function like the Files History program in Win10 keeping separate from my OS drives. I really only notice when my backup drive gets to full and turns red about once a year. I hate to say it but I don't think that I have had to restore Windows since 10 has been installed.
 
OP
shadowdr

shadowdr

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2001
Thanks man I appreciate the link. It kind of reminds me of the IBM Ghost disc I made back in 01, I used it for many years but all the floppy's died and then had to use as a CD. I remember working weeks on end trying to get the Ghost exe. to work that I got free with my KT7A raid mobo. I didn't realize that it wouldn't work with a 98 floppy because I had NTFS with Win2000 even when I finally got it to work with IBM dos. It also took many more weeks to get a useable mouse pointer on the disc to make it easier to navigate.

I have noticed your username over the years and wonder if you got that in one of the changeovers when the forum split from another forum or updated the database. That's how I got mine, in an update I think, they used my password for my user name and I have forever been shadowdr instead of my original JeffC.

I am going to give the program a try, hopefully it will be what I am needing, Thanks.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I'm not sure what is going on with the Windows backup, but I doubt Class Shell has anything to do with it. EaseUS backup programs worked quite well for me over the years. Been using it for the review OS's so we can quickly blow the image down and reload it... my personal systems all use it as well. :)

In fact, I recently gave in and bought it instead of using the free version. It is faster and you do get more options. :)

https://www.easeus.com/backup-softw...x9L9X4DFmBi9pEuD2CWydOktQSQX_o3hoC3zEQAvD_BwE
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
I have noticed your username over the years and wonder if you got that in one of the changeovers when the forum split from another forum or updated the database.

I usually tell people my username is my prison number :shock: :D


Is IBM's Ghost the same as Norton Ghost?
I have Ghost figured out and still have notes in my software archives.
Drive Image 2002 - Partition Magic 8.05 were my favorites in the old days, but that's because I was unaware of TeraByte Image - the absolute best of the best, and they go way way back too.


I have discovered that creating a Linux boot USB - not DOS - is the best bootable media type for boot USB creation.

Create a Linux bootable USB with TeraByte Image Linux [without Networking] software:

Trial download versions cannot be used to create Boot USB/CD/DVD for DOS. They skip the screen where a License Key can be entered when creating Boot USB/CD/DVD for DOS.

*ONLY* full, non-trial versions downloaded by registered users with passwords from here
https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/product-download.php
allow for the License Key to be entered when creating Boot USB/CD/DVD/.


(Linux) makedisk.exe > Next > SELECT: Traditional - You have control over options. (Custom) >
Next > I accept the agreement > Next > CHECK: Align Partitions on 1MiB Boundaries > Next > Next > Next >
Enter Linux key (this option is not there on Trial versions):
ENTER YOUR KEY
> Next >
SELECT: Leave Boot Drive Mounted as /tbu/boot > Next > Next > Next >
Select your USB drive > USB Layout: Partition - MBR FAT/FAT32 Partition >
Finish > Yes > OK > [wait for it to finish] > Close.

Then open file SYSLINUX.CFG in Notepad and change line
timeout 50
to
timeout 01

in order to eliminate the 5 second wait before booting in.


If your USB drive is not listed, then create a shortcut to makedisk.exe,
right-click on it > Properties > add /nousblimit at the end of Target:
so that the end of the line next to Target is
...makedisk.exe" /nousblimit
 

wagex

Chapstick Eating Premium Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
I'm not sure what is going on with the Windows backup, but I doubt Class Shell has anything to do with it. EaseUS backup programs worked quite well for me over the years. Been using it for the review OS's so we can quickly blow the image down and reload it... my personal systems all use it as well. :)

In fact, I recently gave in and bought it instead of using the free version. It is faster and you do get more options. :)

https://www.easeus.com/backup-softw...x9L9X4DFmBi9pEuD2CWydOktQSQX_o3hoC3zEQAvD_BwE

i second easeus todo backup, i use it all the time to clone disks, or backup a disk before making a big change, ect. I've never used a tool that's more handy and diverse than todo backup and best of all it's free for home users.
 
OP
shadowdr

shadowdr

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2001
Indeed it is, when I got it, it was just an exe file on the mobo disk. I guess they assumed I knew how to use it with a 98 dos floppy but it wouldn't see my drives because they were NTFS. MS dos couldn't see them and I happened upon a site that had IBM dos images and I managed to use it with them even though Symantec didn't. It was clumsy and awkward until I got the mouse to work with it but it could copy partitions or drives fairly quickly and it also saw my raid0 array. The only issue I remember was that it didn't read the drive name or letter so you had to know which drive was which. It is still a usable disk copy but I would like the incremental backups that windows did very well in win7.

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

Thanks for that, I remember having it and using it but probably uninstalled when I got the Acronis. I am not liking Acronis either, I have externals that I can copy to but they are very slow and would prefer the old windows back up restore points that I could choose a date to go back to. I guess windows 10 doesn't do that anymore.

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

Well, I think I know what is going on with the backup problems. I have Norton included in my comcast subscription and it did it's own backup once but I disabled it later. It had named the backup folder N360 and windows did not recognize the individual backups because they placed them in the same folder. I am going to wipe the drive and see if it will cure the problem of windows not seeing the individual restore points. I will update once I know if it is working right.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
That's all you need? Restore points? Windows 10 does that.:p

Why is the windows backup saying it's too big? Have you looked up the error by chance? Can you capture a screenshot of it?

But are you trying to create restore points or make full image backups???
 
OP
shadowdr

shadowdr

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2001
That's all you need? Restore points? Windows 10 does that.:p

Why is the windows backup saying it's too big? Have you looked up the error by chance? Can you capture a screenshot of it?

But are you trying to create restore points or make full image backups???
Yes, I have been trying to Delete restore points because it had consumed the entire disk. It would not let me delete single restore points because it only showed one. I could start the restore process and see many but not if I tried to delete them. The backup already has an image but also included 700 gigs of restore points that showed as one single restore point in the backup program. What I finally found out is that Norton had taken ownership of several of the folders without changing the visible folders and file names, so all the restore points were in a single folder. Windows was only reading the single folder and not the backups within it, so it only allowed deleting a single date file. I had to take ownership of the drive to delete the folders and reformat. I am running backup now including an image so I think it should work correctly now. I didn't even know that Norton had done this and also didn't know it could screw up the Windows program.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Most IT people stay as far away from Norton as possible. It messes with a lot of things, including installation of printer drivers. It tries to do too much. Recent independent lab testing has shown that Microsoft Defender (built into Windows 10 is as good as any commercial product out there.

Personally, I use the free version of Macrium Reflect to create images of the system drive on a scheduled basis and use Windows File History to backup only data. If just the system drive dies I can put in a new drive and rebuild the entire system, OS, programs and data very quickly from an image. Full images are done once a month and differential images weekly. Any data newer than a week old can be restored from File History which can also be used to restore the data if, say, you have to replace the motherboard and can't use the Macrium Reflect images for the old motherboard. In that case you would also have to install the OS first and replace the programs but at least the data was backed up.
 

wagex

Chapstick Eating Premium Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
+1 to trents, an external backup is much better than doing restore points or backups to the system disk, because if anything happens to the main disk the entire machine needs to be redone. Easeus todo backup i believe does a bare metal recovery so you can recover the entire OS from the backup onto any computer incase your computer completely takes a dump, chances are you will need a new windows license in that case though.

I recommend if you dont want to use third party software to use the windows backup tool and dedicate an external drive for it. As long as windows system restore isnt disabled it should automatically create restore points when anything important is installed. if you insist on relying on restore points you can manually create restore points from the control panel. it might seem that you have backups and restore points confused as they are both handled from different windows utilities and are handled completely different in the OS itself. If i am reading correctly you are seeing more "restore points" when trying to recover from "backups" and there might just be a single "restore point" on the system.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
"Yes," to what wagex said. It is imperative to back up to an external device. The most common computer component failure is the hard drive. If your backups are done to the system disk then if it goes, you have nothing to restore from. And a "bare metal" solution is optimum since it would not depend on matching the motherboard chipset to be able to restore the system in case of motherboard failure or in case you were just wanting to move everything to a new system. But as he pointed out, moving OS and apps in place to a new system will require purchasing new activation codes for the software that is not free unless you have a multi machine license for particular apps.
 
OP
shadowdr

shadowdr

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2001
Most IT people stay as far away from Norton as possible. It messes with a lot of things, including installation of printer drivers. It tries to do too much. Recent independent lab testing has shown that Microsoft Defender (built into Windows 10 is as good as any commercial product out there.

Personally, I use the free version of Macrium Reflect to create images of the system drive on a scheduled basis and use Windows File History to backup only data. If just the system drive dies I can put in a new drive and rebuild the entire system, OS, programs and data very quickly from an image. Full images are done once a month and differential images weekly. Any data newer than a week old can be restored from File History which can also be used to restore the data if, say, you have to replace the motherboard and can't use the Macrium Reflect images for the old motherboard. In that case you would also have to install the OS first and replace the programs but at least the data was backed up.

I will have to look into Norton versus defender soon as comcast is removing the subscription for their customers. I basically have always had it since my first computer because it is free and pay it little attention, it does block a lot of internet attacks.

I actually had the same program but went on to others because of it's limitations that I can no longer remember. I do have three WD flex drives that have my music pictures and other data that I would hate to lose. Even so my drives system has been a workaround for retaining most of my data as you never know what can happen. I have six drives labeled Windows, programs, downloads, files, storage and backup. They are pretty much what they say and part of an overall plan to retain data despite a drive loss. The first three and backup disk are all ssd with files and storage being regular hard drives. Much data is redundant as it resides on more then one drive, my biggest concern is widows updates and the need to go back before they happened.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Then Restore should do you. But beware that it often gets corrupted in the case of viral attacks. I'm guessing almost half the time I have gone to use Restore it was nonfunctional for one reason or another. For that reason, imaging of the system drive on a scheduled basis is more trustworthy.
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
It always helped me to PARTITION the hard drive so that the OS partition is as small as possible, I always installed large programs to E:\Program Files instead of C:\Program Files.

I then reboot from Windows 8 to Windows 10 to reimage Windows 8 and vice versa. Complete process takes a couple minutes, faster than a short bathroom break.

I use this to reboot:
EasyBCD.png

https://neosmart.net/Download/Register
use any absolutely any Name & Email to Download