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Worth it?

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Peter-griffin

Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2002
Location
NJ
CPU - $219 + $0 shiping - TIMES TWO!
AMD Athlon MP 2200 1.8GHz PROCESSOR CPU - OEM
***(DUALING)***


Motherboard - $225 +$12 Shiping
MSI K7D Master-L (MS-6501-030) AMD760MPX Dual Athlon 266MHz ATX MOTHERBOARD With Onboard LAN- RETAIL

RAM - $115 + $0 for shipping
Kingmax 512MB DDR RAM PC-2100 CL2.5


VidCard - $233 + $0 for shiping
ALBATRON GeForce 4 TI4600 (NVIDIA GeForce4 TI4600 GPU), 128MB DDR. TV-Out. w/ DVI adaptor

Case - About $130 with Power suplie


Heat sink - $51.00 +$5.00 shiping - TIMES TWO!
Thermal Tek SLK800 with 80mm Sunon Fan


DVD/CD - $42.00
LITE-ON LTD-166S16X DVD ROM Drive - Retail48X CD-ROM


HardDrive - $145 + $0 shiping Shiping
WD WESTERN DIGITAL EIDE HARD DRIVE 120GB 7200RPM MODEL # WD1200BB -Caviar OEM, DRIVE ONLY



Sound Card - $84 + $4 for shiping
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer

NIC card - Onboard MB

KB + Mouse - About $50bux



Total = $1,585

Is it worth the price? Hopefully this machine is easily overclockable, as I'm having a less than enjoyable time trying to overclock my Sony Vaio (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136696).

Any tips on the machine? I'm trying to get the Alienware Antec(?) case with a 500 watt power supply with it. It's pretty good to my eye, but what about to yours?

As advertising isn't allowed here, if you want to know where I'm buying this stuff from I'll tell you via email or AIM (Jag22487).

I just want help knowing if I can get a better machine for less, and where from. Also, if the stated parts won't work optimally together, what replacements should I get?

Thanks for the input!!
 

larva

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
hmm, where to start. Unless you need a dual cpu machine for some substantial reason (other than 2 being bigger than 1), reconsider your selections. the 760 based chipsets are sloow compared to cutting edge setups like KT333 via. And they typically don't overclock very well at all. Most applications can't utilize the second cpu, and those that do don't gain anything like 100% from it, even though cost goes up 100%.

My advice? Go with an Abit KX7-333 and a XP1600+ cpu, along with some really good DDR (read Corsair XMS PC3200C2). Dual cpu's are for the birds. This setup is the most cost effective.

Another nice alternative is an Abit BD7-II (or other quality 845e board), along with a P4-1.8a. Add the same corsair ram to complete the package.

Either setup will be far more cost effective than a MP rig, and overclcock very well. The MP chipsets are just hairy old junk in comparison, and the advantages of the second processor don't even come close to justifying the increase in cost.

Ti4600 video cards are still pricey considering the 4200 and 4400 sbilings provide nearly the same performance. If you have a source for Albatron get the Ti4200 Turbo and save some money.

WD SE drives are very nice and worth the (very reasonable) sums they command in the market. The 120GB model is a good choice.
 

Darkseid

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2001
Location
Argentina
i can´t add anything else, just one question, i heard that athlon mp chips comes with the multiplier unlocked, is that right??
and i totally agree with larva, the abit kx7+333 is an awsome board my roomate just bought one with a 2000+ and so far is great, the bios is the overclockers dream, to bad he didn´t has pc2700 memory yet, but... we are gonna get some soon
 
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Peter-griffin

Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2002
Location
NJ
Hhhmmm...the input is all valuable.

I just need an explanation- will the 2 processor's deliver what a single 3.6ghz processor would? I know there are none of those out, so I wanted to beat the market to it and push obseletion off the calendar for a couple more months.

Also, larva, I shouldn't dual at all and go with a single that clocks slower than my current cpu? Are you sure?

Remember that I have a $1650 cap and I don't want to be very cost effective here. What I meant by is it worth it, is that should I replace a part with a better/equally expensive part?

I'm not here to be cost effective. I'm here to boost the computer industry ^_^.

More input!! FEED MY INTELLILECT (/ego)!!!
 

Balzlak

Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Location
Sugarland, TX
With that kind of $$$, You should look into liquid/phase change cooling. Ask some water-cooling nuts for some advice on what to get for that. Other than that, I can only say dual proc sux0rs for performance. It only gives maybe 133% the performance of a single proc. You should look at nifty other stuff like an R9700 or other stuff.
 
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Peter-griffin

Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2002
Location
NJ
I'm getting mixed comments about dual's performing like a single superprocessor- will 2 duals work at 3.6ghz or not?
 

larva

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
Even though mainstream operating systems like Win2K and XP Pro support mulitprocessing it is of little value for a home system. Hardly any of the applications you would run on your machine will even utilize the second cpu, and those that do will not get anything like a 100% boost because of its existence.

Please understand computers are a complex device. Just because a dual cpu machine has twice the hardware does not in any way translate into twice the performance. Things just aren't that simple. Even in the best case scenario in which the OS and appication support SMP, and the task the program is doing is suited to multiprocessing, the performance achieved is at best 1.5-1.6 times a single processer's performance. Harldy anything you would do with the machine fits this description.

The tasks you will undertake will hardly even know the second cpu is there. But they will know the 760MP chipset required to run a SMP rig sucks. And you will know too when you try to overclock it and it reminds you of your Sony. You can't overclock a 760MP anything like a good board like the Abit will allow. And at equal clock rate 760MP is slow. Basically committing to a mulitprocessing rig kills the performance at any given clock level, severly limits the clock level you can achieve, and drives the cost through the roof. But at least you can use the numeral 2 a lot... lol.

The reason to build an Athlon XP system is mainly because of the cost advantage they posses. Boards like the Abit KX7-333 are inexpensive and overclock very well. The core quality of currently available XP 1600+'s is good enough to run 1800MHz, so there is no reason to spend three times as much for a 2200+ that also runs at 1800MHz. It ruins the value of the system while adding little to nothing to the performance achievable. You can disable the multiplier locking on AXP cpus, allowing you to utilize the tremendous board speed potential afforded by the KX7-333/Corsair PC3200C2 combo. It is very realistic to expect 190MHz board speed, with which we would like a multiplier of 9.5. This will put you at just over 1800MHz on chip, and the modern 1600+'s have this much in them. This creates a very fast system that is at the same time inexpensive.

AXP 2400+ cpus bring substantially more clock speed potential to the party. They run at 2000MHz and have 2200-2300 in them. This is the only AMD chip that is going to give you a realistic shot at more than 1900MHz. We can now realistically couple the 190MHz board speed with a multiplier of 11.5, and the clock speed increase over the level obtainable with the 1600+ is noticeable. Either go with the terrific value of the 1600+ and live with 1800-1900 MHz, or spend a fortune (comparitively) on the 2400+ and enjoy the 2200MHz capability. Any of the models in between are poor values in comparison.

Personally I favor P4's. The 845e based boards like the Abit BD7-II, IT7 Max, or Asus P4B533 are fine products with great feature sets, rock solid stability, and the same awesome overclocking potentional present in the KX7-333. The 1.8a cpus are priced very reasonalby (~190 bucks) and have 2.7-3GHz in them. This is a great value. Although I recommend the KX7-333/1600+ route for users needing a very economical rig, I recommend the P4 to users with a larger budget. Not wasting your money on obsolete MP chipsets and a second cpu that is barely used leaves plenty of money to go with the P4.

A 1.8a system running at 2.7-3GHz is a good bit faster than the proposed 1600+ setup. It is not a huge amount faster than the proposed 2400+ rig. But it doesn't cost any more than the 2400+ rig either and produces less heat, draws less current, and is generally a bit more forgiving and refined. And in the end most real world home user tasks will run a touch quicker. But not all.

The whole notion of overclocking is to take advantage of all the clock speed capability a chip has. CPU makers strongly subscribe to the tiered marketing approach. They want to sell little ones and big ones, in the hopes of screwing the people that choose the big one. Low end models of current cpu production like the 1600+ and 1.8a P4 have virtually the same clock speed potential of the models marketed above them. Take advantage.

PS-I agree this thread is in the wrong section, but I would punch a baby in the face to prevent a catastrophic mistake like the proposed rig.
 
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Peter-griffin

Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2002
Location
NJ
"PS-I agree this thread is in the wrong section, but I would punch a baby in the face to prevent a catastrophic mistake like the proposed rig." (and yeah i know how to quote, just too lazy) LOL

Ok...I see your point. What about P4 2.8ghz? I know the cost...Like $500 or something...

What is its overclocking ability? And how good of a processor is it overall?

If you can set me up a better rig...list the parts.

THX!
 

larva

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
Personally I would go with a 1.8a or 2.4b processor. They cost a small fraction of something like a 2.8, and will run within a few hundred MHz of the 2.8's potential. It just isn't worth 300 dollars for 200MHz. You won't notice the difference in practice. If I was going to buy anything more expensive than the 2.4b, It would be the 2.66. But in reality I would never purchase that close the the top of the cpu line, as you are well into sucker country. See my above post if you don't understand what I mean, the point about tiered marketing stratedgies.

My reconmondation (still) is an Abit BD7-II (or IT7 Max if you can do w/o legacy ports), a 1.8a (or 2.4b, basically the same damn chip, but at least it's only 25 bucks more these days, and might get you a C1 stepping), and Corsair XMS PC3200C2 ram. The rest of the stuff is pretty much up to you. The WD series drives are great, the 120GB is the largest I would recommend due to a dumb *** tax on the larger models. Just like cpu's you have to be a dumb *** to buy at the very top of the lineup, and they tax you heavily for such bad judgement.

The Ti4600 is not worth the extra money over a good ti4200 or ti4400. I own a ti4400, almost all run easily at 4600 clock rates. In reality a cheap 64MB Ti4200 is a lot better deal (like the MSI) as GF4 Ti's are just about obsolete. The upcoming NV30 will so substantially outperform any GF4 that it would seem really stupid in about two months to have put big money into a GF4 at this time. Better off to buy the best 150-200 GF4 you can find now, knowing that you will want to upgrade it when NV30 arrives. You could also go with a 9700 ATI, but I am not an ATI fan. It is of the next generation of cards, the same generation that the NV30 will belong to though, so It would be a lot smarter to put the money into a 9700 than to spend nearly as much on a Ti4600.
 

nodsetse

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
Hey Peter-griffin, you'd do well to follow the advice larva has provided. I for one agree with everything he's stated thus far in this thread, and couldn't have said it better myself! :)