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Would this improve a waterblock?

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gone_fishin

BandSaw King
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Location
U.P. Michigan
From what I've read on heat transfer characteristics involving waterblocks two important factors are more surface area and water turbulance inside the block.

Here's my brainstorm, take copper BB's, put them in a vise and grind half of them away. Now take them and coat the newly flat portion of each one with flux. Take the water block (a design where there is water entry chamber directly above the die) and coat the bottom of the chamber with flux. Place the BB's flat side down as to fill the bottom of the chamber. Having the waterblock in a vice the whole time, heat up the bottom of the block with a propane torch and apply silver based solder to the BB's ever so carefully so it gets sucked under the BB's and not filling the voids between them ( you would loose surface area).

Well what do you think. This should cause turbulance and increase surface area.
 

SavageHenry

Registered
Joined
Aug 31, 2001
Location
Warner Robins, GA
It would increase turbulence, but there are probably ways to do that without nearly as much effort (cutting grooves in the channels, bead blasting, etc).
 

Hoot

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Feb 13, 2001
Location
Twin Cities
Two things come to mind right off the bat. Most BBs are copper clad steel or brass clad steel, but with a little effort, I'm sure you could find solid copper ones. More importantly, it is hard enough to silver solder with room to work and tolerance for slop. In the case of the water block channel, you would have neither. An interesing idea, but a difficult mechanical challenge.

Hoot
 
OP
gone_fishin

gone_fishin

BandSaw King
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Location
U.P. Michigan
If the BB's were placed in a grid say 8pc X 8pc (just an example) in the inlet chamber, you could take four strands of thin solder and lay them in every other channel between the BB's parallely. When it heats up the solder should be sucked under by the flux.
 

Aesik

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2002
Being a person who reloads his own shotgun shells, I have never seen solid copper BBs. They would be way too expensive and I can see no advantage to using them.

There may be some out there somewhere, but I highly doubt it.
 

nihili

Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Location
Pocatello, ID
Also remember that joints typically reduce heat transfer. You'd be better off, and it would probably be easier, to find or make a bit with a concave tip and carve the bumps in. Although I'm not sure that bumps would be substantially better than just drilling a bunch of little pocks in the bottom. And that wouldn't require a specialty tool.

nihili
 

Ridenow

Sneaky Moderator
Joined
Apr 17, 2001
Location
Springfield, IL
I like the idea, but think it would be more work than benifit.

There might be an easier way. We would need a milled block that has 2 pieces soldered together. Find something that is really copper to solder in or maybe "score" the inside of the block.

You got me thinking. If a block was filled with copper wool would there be enough contact with the block walls to have thermal benifit? It could be loosely soldered in to secure it....
 

nihili

Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Location
Pocatello, ID
Along the line of copper wool, there's a company that makes a graphite based open cell foam specifically for heat transfer applications. One of there suggested used has it inside a waterblock. However it's pricey stuff and I don't know of anyone in the OC community who's played around with it enough to tell. I think that they give out small "engineering" samples if any of the lurking engineers want to have a closer look at it. Let me know and I'll try to hunt up one of the threads on it.

nihili
 

KingB

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
Calgary, Alberta
Morphling (a member here) has been designing some interesting blocks that I believe increase surface area and turbulence. Take a look at the latest design. Might be a machining nightmare, I am not sure.


Morphlings Designs
 
OP
gone_fishin

gone_fishin

BandSaw King
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Location
U.P. Michigan
Milling dimples is definately a good idea but if you have a block to start out with (didn't make it yourself) the bottom is probably thin.
As for no copper BB's I have found a solution. Pure copper beads you can buy by the dozens from craft and jewelery suppliers.
I like the copper wool idea but it might unweave and clog up the system.
 
OP
gone_fishin

gone_fishin

BandSaw King
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Location
U.P. Michigan
I've designed a little something that the average hobbyist could build to test this out. Just make two cores, one with the copper beads and one without. It could be that the silver solder joint negates all gains from turbulance and greater surface area or the silver solder may not have any effect on thermal transfer that is noticable. All parts are generic copper plumbing supplies from your average hardware store. The hold down plate would be a metal electrical junction box cover plate 4" X 4" (it even has the knockout hole in the center already). The inlet tube is 1/2". The outlet tubes are 3/8" and would be of equal length (drawing shows one shorter to fit it in the view). The cutaway view should be self explanitory with the contact piece being a 1 1/4" round copper endcap lapped smooth.
Anyone want to try this out? Do you think it would even work?
All comments appreciated, thanks.
 
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OP
gone_fishin

gone_fishin

BandSaw King
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Location
U.P. Michigan
Lots of views and no further opinions yet. Maybe the design needs further detailed explanation on how to build.

A - 1 1/4" male copper end cap
B - 1 1/4"F to 3/4"M copper fitting
C - 3/4"F to 1/2" hose barb
D - 3/8" O.D. male barb threaded
E - 1/2" I.D. hose
F - 3/8" ID hose
G - 1/2" inline T-barb
H - 1/2" to 3/8" inline barb reducer
I - metal electrical junction box plate
J - rubber gasket
misc - 4 long bolts, 4nuts, 4 nylon washers, 4 - 1" springs

Drill and tap through parts A & B after soldered together for attaching part D. screw in parts D with flux and solder.
 

rivercom9

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Location
Sacramento, CA
I say just pound the thing till it looks like it would cause turbulence, and you wouldnt be losing any mass so you could theoretically absorb more heat. J/k. Morphling's idea looks very good.
 
OP
gone_fishin

gone_fishin

BandSaw King
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Location
U.P. Michigan
I agree roadwarrior, that would be even better if making one from scratch or if you have one with a thick enough base.

I can envision a two minute process to half size them though if you needed to.
Clamp a thin strip of styrofoam, that is just slightly wider than the beads, at the proper height in a vise so that only half of the beads are exposed above the vise jaws. Put as many beads as you need into the vise on top of the foam and tighten it up. now tap them a few times with a belt sander and your done. As you see it isn't much work to cut them down.
 
OP
gone_fishin

gone_fishin

BandSaw King
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Location
U.P. Michigan
Think of the styrofoam as your "jig". It's only purpose is to line them all up in a row at the proper position. When the vise is clamped down the styrofoam is compressed and no longer serves any purpose.
 

G33k

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Location
Bristol [UK]
You could always try something like my solution :


[Click the pics to enlarge]

Because there's very little resistance to flow, you get some serious velocities insode the block. Coolant exits through the center, past all thos pins (which extend into the outlet pipe).

I have an idea which make work even better than the current revision. I'm gonna try soldering U-shape bits of wire in there (prolly about 16). These would follow the outer wall of the chamber down to the base of the block, across the bottom and then stick up in the center. This should increase turbulance quite a bit.
 
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OP
gone_fishin

gone_fishin

BandSaw King
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Location
U.P. Michigan
G33K, it looks like you have the cold water entering from the side, slamming into the opposite wall and forced out through the top. This doesn't seem to add much extra surface area nor a great deal of turbulance because the water exit is flowing parallel with the three pins you say are going up the exit path. But pins inside the block are a good idea. That is what air cooled heatsinks use to increase surface area and air turbulance if airflow is designed right, so it would make sense to substitute water for the air. But I think that whole concept should be devoted to an entirely new thread.