All 3 are good games. It's just a matter of what you enjoy. if you like PvE then WAR is not the game for you. It does have PvE content, but I haven't seen any of the high end stuff and i don't know how good it will be. WoW and EQ2 are better for that. If you love PvP, then WAR is for you. At least to give it a good try.
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WoW vs. WAR... .....
- Thread starter DaPoets
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2001
- Location
- Moderating
Lukee said:
Flame fest over guys?
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2007
- Location
- London, Ontario, Canada
I don't see how this is a flame fest....
People are discussing their varying opinions on WoW and War.
I think with the additional content coming next month there will will be more interest in the game. The new classes, content and bug fixes should make it more enjoyable.
People are discussing their varying opinions on WoW and War.
I think with the additional content coming next month there will will be more interest in the game. The new classes, content and bug fixes should make it more enjoyable.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Location
- Guildford, England
ye, not really any flaming here, I was careful in my post to make it clear that it was my own personal opinion on the game.
I'd like to clarify my point 10. pvp is only about teamwork (again noting, my opinion
).
With the lacks of stuns/CC etc I found your own individual impact on a fight was tiny, if you were a dps all you did was dps the selected target, use your aoe imobalizing ability (if you have 1) (and it will get broken by someone in 2 seconds anyways 90% of the time) and knockback an enemy player (maybe to save your own healers life or something) very little to actually think about.
Also I found fights seemed predetermined so anymore than 1v1 you either needed serious luck or seriosly bad enemies to beat them.
While for example a typical WoW fight with (just 1 example here) my hunter. In mass pvp I can trap an enemy (multiple choices of traps for different situations) silence/scatter/stun to protect myself or others, abilites like deterence to throw up if I get targeted. I can mana drain selected targets I can help my oparties mana regen if its a long fight by sacrificing damageAlso burst dps so I can unload alooot of damage very quickly.
So all in all I have a massive impact, in a 3v3 battle (assuming the enemy dont use counter tactics) I can take 1 player out of the game entirely for ~15seconsd I can prevent another from helping much and can drop the 3rds enemy very quickly, this is the ignoring all the other abilities that the other 5 players in this situation have.
Also on your own you can come up against 2 or 3 enemies your own level and stand a chance of winning, my personal best was a 5man team heading to a dungeon at 60, 1v5 and I won, I just dont ever see that happening in WAR.
What I am trying to say is that 90% of WAR fights play out very very very similarly while WoW has more variation based on the players invloved.
from a pvp oriented game I guess I just expected more complex pvp not simpler which is what fueled my 3rd point.
I am not arguing storming keeps is great fun but its just 1 element and 1 lone thing wont keep me paying for an MMO
I'd like to clarify my point 10. pvp is only about teamwork (again noting, my opinion
).With the lacks of stuns/CC etc I found your own individual impact on a fight was tiny, if you were a dps all you did was dps the selected target, use your aoe imobalizing ability (if you have 1) (and it will get broken by someone in 2 seconds anyways 90% of the time) and knockback an enemy player (maybe to save your own healers life or something) very little to actually think about.
Also I found fights seemed predetermined so anymore than 1v1 you either needed serious luck or seriosly bad enemies to beat them.
While for example a typical WoW fight with (just 1 example here) my hunter. In mass pvp I can trap an enemy (multiple choices of traps for different situations) silence/scatter/stun to protect myself or others, abilites like deterence to throw up if I get targeted. I can mana drain selected targets I can help my oparties mana regen if its a long fight by sacrificing damageAlso burst dps so I can unload alooot of damage very quickly.
So all in all I have a massive impact, in a 3v3 battle (assuming the enemy dont use counter tactics) I can take 1 player out of the game entirely for ~15seconsd I can prevent another from helping much and can drop the 3rds enemy very quickly, this is the ignoring all the other abilities that the other 5 players in this situation have.
Also on your own you can come up against 2 or 3 enemies your own level and stand a chance of winning, my personal best was a 5man team heading to a dungeon at 60, 1v5 and I won, I just dont ever see that happening in WAR.
What I am trying to say is that 90% of WAR fights play out very very very similarly while WoW has more variation based on the players invloved.
from a pvp oriented game I guess I just expected more complex pvp not simpler which is what fueled my 3rd point.
I am not arguing storming keeps is great fun but its just 1 element and 1 lone thing wont keep me paying for an MMO
What flamefest? I just used his points since they were a nice format and covered a lot more than I would have. I give him props for taking the time to do that.
We all gave opinions. I did strongly disagree about one point and maybe I stated it a little harshly, but none of it was meant to be a flame. I also agreed with him on several points.
Why is it that when people state difference of opinions it is considered flaming?
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2003
- Location
- Mesa, AZ
I'll agree with a lot of Poet's sentiments. I'm a WoW > WAR convert. My favorite part of WoW was world PVP, which sadly, there wasn't enough of. I raided like crazy pre-BC for gear just to stomp other people into the ground. I ran arenas and BG's for gear to be better at world PVP. Personally, I enjoy WAR a little more simply for their implementation of meaningful world PVP.
@Firey: I can understand some of your points, as I've experienced some of them myself... though I'll have to disagree with you in certain areas.
To be honest, I've only done one dungeon run in WAR. It was kind of a bland tank n spank. Surprisingly enough, most of the people on that run played like they've never run MC before. The DPS acted like they had never heard of the concept of aggro management.
I will say, though, that the game is still very new. I've heard good stuff about the T4 dungeons, and I'm sure there will be more. We haven't even had our first main content patch yet (which will be yielding 2 new classes).
Why "fix" something that isn't broken? No need to reinvent the wheel here.
I'm not sure that this is either accurate or correct. Playing through T1 - T3 scenarios, there have only been one or two that I dislike, personally. I'm not saying that everybody must share my opinion, but of the scenarios, the only thing I've not yet seen in WAR that exists in WoW is Eye of the Storm. But again, I've not played any of the 6 T4 scenarios yet.
I've experienced this too. Not sure what it is. It's not game breaking to me, but it can be a little cumbersome at times.
I think the same dynamics are there that exist in WoW. On my Salvation specced Warrior Priest, if I've got an Ironbreaker and a White Lion or Witch Hunter in my group, and we stick together, we can mow through groups of larger numbers who aren't working as a team.
Right, but that'll come with time.
Again, that comes with time. 2 months after WoW came out, everybody looked the same too, and WoW didn't have dye. You can't say that every class rocking their dungeon gear from Scholo, Strat, and Blackrock Spire didn't look the same either.
I can think of several people who would say the opposite in regard to WoW's cartoony graphics. I'm impartial either way. I think WAR looks great, but it is a system hog. At the same time, I've always been a fan of Blizzard's art direction with WoW.
To each his/her own. It's all about playing the game you have the most fun with.
@Firey: I can understand some of your points, as I've experienced some of them myself... though I'll have to disagree with you in certain areas.
To be honest, I've only done one dungeon run in WAR. It was kind of a bland tank n spank. Surprisingly enough, most of the people on that run played like they've never run MC before. The DPS acted like they had never heard of the concept of aggro management.
I will say, though, that the game is still very new. I've heard good stuff about the T4 dungeons, and I'm sure there will be more. We haven't even had our first main content patch yet (which will be yielding 2 new classes).
Why "fix" something that isn't broken? No need to reinvent the wheel here.
I'm not sure that this is either accurate or correct. Playing through T1 - T3 scenarios, there have only been one or two that I dislike, personally. I'm not saying that everybody must share my opinion, but of the scenarios, the only thing I've not yet seen in WAR that exists in WoW is Eye of the Storm. But again, I've not played any of the 6 T4 scenarios yet.
I've experienced this too. Not sure what it is. It's not game breaking to me, but it can be a little cumbersome at times.
I think the same dynamics are there that exist in WoW. On my Salvation specced Warrior Priest, if I've got an Ironbreaker and a White Lion or Witch Hunter in my group, and we stick together, we can mow through groups of larger numbers who aren't working as a team.
Right, but that'll come with time.
Again, that comes with time. 2 months after WoW came out, everybody looked the same too, and WoW didn't have dye. You can't say that every class rocking their dungeon gear from Scholo, Strat, and Blackrock Spire didn't look the same either.
I can think of several people who would say the opposite in regard to WoW's cartoony graphics. I'm impartial either way. I think WAR looks great, but it is a system hog. At the same time, I've always been a fan of Blizzard's art direction with WoW.
To each his/her own. It's all about playing the game you have the most fun with.
So let me get this right.... you prefer playing War over WoW.... thanks for telling all of us WoW players were playing the wrong game! Omg, all this time I'm wasting in WoW when I could be wasting it in War...
/sarcasm off
You don't have to justify playing War instead of WoW. Guess what, because you don't like something doesn't mean its bad. It means it might be bad lol. But some ppl like bad stuff, look at all those Sims games they sold.
/sarcasm off
You don't have to justify playing War instead of WoW. Guess what, because you don't like something doesn't mean its bad. It means it might be bad lol. But some ppl like bad stuff, look at all those Sims games they sold.
OP
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Thread Starter
- #28
Yeah 47 million people voted for the loosing side last night... Doesn't mean they were wrong, it's just that voting for something that is old and stale won't lead to new and shinny changes Having to take a 15 minute flightpath to queue up for a BG/Scenario is like a Presidential Candidate that doesn't know how to check his own email or browse the web... Old school.
Having to take a 15 minute flightpath to queue up for a BG/Scenario is like a Presidential Candidate that doesn't know how to check his own email or browse the web... Old school.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Location
- Guildford, England
cool atm I am on tenterhooks for wow wotlk, but if that doesnt keep me occupied I might well give war another shot (I only ever am subscribed to 1 MMO at once)
atm I am on tenterhooks for wow wotlk, but if that doesnt keep me occupied I might well give war another shot (I only ever am subscribed to 1 MMO at once)
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ USA
I played WAR for a little over 3 weeks. It really wasn't all that great. It was ok and a nice change of pace.
However:
Combat was extremely... clunky. Big Client/Server synch issues, warping, etc.
Significant population imbalance in favor of Destruction, and they always had the keeps
No human tanks (although they are finally adding them soon), made Empire weaker
Nobody talks to each other
Mail system sucked big time
Lame tradeskills
Demanding yet mediocre graphics (jerky animation from a distance to help? lol)
Knockbacks, roots, and snares were all out of control
Tanks had the potential to be TOO strong - took me, a warrior priest, and an archmage friend FOREVER to kill any enemy tanks going all out DPS, while they were still doing a significant amount and nearly killing us
I could keep going. I think WoW is a superior product but it may not be for everybody. Some people may prefer WAR's PVP, but the synch and imbalances issues ruin it for me.
However:
Combat was extremely... clunky. Big Client/Server synch issues, warping, etc.
Significant population imbalance in favor of Destruction, and they always had the keeps
No human tanks (although they are finally adding them soon), made Empire weaker
Nobody talks to each other
Mail system sucked big time
Lame tradeskills
Demanding yet mediocre graphics (jerky animation from a distance to help? lol)
Knockbacks, roots, and snares were all out of control
Tanks had the potential to be TOO strong - took me, a warrior priest, and an archmage friend FOREVER to kill any enemy tanks going all out DPS, while they were still doing a significant amount and nearly killing us
I could keep going. I think WoW is a superior product but it may not be for everybody. Some people may prefer WAR's PVP, but the synch and imbalances issues ruin it for me.
OP
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Thread Starter
- #34
Looks like you will love WAR now since this patch pretty much changes all of these things that you have issues with.
- Joined
- May 12, 2001
- Location
- Huntington Beach
I pretty much agree with near 100%. The game has a lot of lag/synch issues. The collision detection is WONKY.
You can pass through people after 3 seconds but what happens is like I will stand in front of a tank and he will look like I am blocking his path and then after 3 seconds he teleports and im like wtf?
The population is horrible, the server caps are low and even though you are on a full or medium pop server it seems like NO ONE is there and I played 3 servers and they are all dominated by destro.
The human tank is being added, but it might be too late should have been in release, but it is being added for free so its cool.
For an MMO it is a very non social game so far nobody ever talks with each other, hopefully at 40 people will be more friendly and not just trying to level and guilds are very umportant.
The mail system is BAD BAD BAD I agree here it lags like crazy and makes auctions a pain.
I always hated tradeskills but these suck even more so than usual and are boring.
The graphics are sort of a let down for how demanding it is.
On the CC though honestly I feel they got it down pretty well. Knockbacks are cool ( except in tor anroc getting knocked into lava ) and need very slight balancing. Roots IMO last too long its annoying but I guess they can break easily and AOE root is usually on a long cooldown. Snares, everyone snares like crazy but thats fine IMO. There are no long term stupid cheap lame mez/sheep/etc CC and there is no rogue to stunlock you. Most of the stuns belong to the tanks.
And tanks are definitely not too strong IMO. They take a long time to go down but usually you leave them last or have a bright wizard attack them and they go down fast enough. Tanks are actually USEFUL in this game with their nice toughness and ample CC they can hold the lines in PVP I like that.
Overall I like WAR much better because the PVP is waaaaaaay more fun and the game has barely been out. Give it a patch or two in order to balance things out. I think this is the best MMO launch to date, there are no classes that can just dominate and kill entire groups. So far every class is at least somewhat useful except for maybe squig herder, God they suck.
You can pass through people after 3 seconds but what happens is like I will stand in front of a tank and he will look like I am blocking his path and then after 3 seconds he teleports and im like wtf?
The population is horrible, the server caps are low and even though you are on a full or medium pop server it seems like NO ONE is there and I played 3 servers and they are all dominated by destro.
The human tank is being added, but it might be too late should have been in release, but it is being added for free so its cool.
For an MMO it is a very non social game so far nobody ever talks with each other, hopefully at 40 people will be more friendly and not just trying to level and guilds are very umportant.
The mail system is BAD BAD BAD I agree here it lags like crazy and makes auctions a pain.
I always hated tradeskills but these suck even more so than usual and are boring.
The graphics are sort of a let down for how demanding it is.
On the CC though honestly I feel they got it down pretty well. Knockbacks are cool ( except in tor anroc getting knocked into lava ) and need very slight balancing. Roots IMO last too long its annoying but I guess they can break easily and AOE root is usually on a long cooldown. Snares, everyone snares like crazy but thats fine IMO. There are no long term stupid cheap lame mez/sheep/etc CC and there is no rogue to stunlock you. Most of the stuns belong to the tanks.
And tanks are definitely not too strong IMO. They take a long time to go down but usually you leave them last or have a bright wizard attack them and they go down fast enough. Tanks are actually USEFUL in this game with their nice toughness and ample CC they can hold the lines in PVP I like that.
Overall I like WAR much better because the PVP is waaaaaaay more fun and the game has barely been out. Give it a patch or two in order to balance things out. I think this is the best MMO launch to date, there are no classes that can just dominate and kill entire groups. So far every class is at least somewhat useful except for maybe squig herder, God they suck.
OP
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Thread Starter
- #36
1st off... you are speaking about issues that were worked out weeks ago. For example, the mail system was fixed and is extremely fast now. There is lots of chatter in the local and new region chat channels.
You should get back in and experience all this, especialy on the test server with the new patch.
Mythic is addressing everyone's issues here, or has already addressed them and you should experience what everyone else is fully enjoying. The RvR is very active, people everywhere, keeps being fought over, scenarios popping... none of us wanted to log last night and it was like 2am...
Oh and the last couple nights, squig herders were getting some of the highest damage, AND they are getting a buff in this patch.
You should get back in and experience all this, especialy on the test server with the new patch.
Mythic is addressing everyone's issues here, or has already addressed them and you should experience what everyone else is fully enjoying. The RvR is very active, people everywhere, keeps being fought over, scenarios popping... none of us wanted to log last night and it was like 2am...
Oh and the last couple nights, squig herders were getting some of the highest damage, AND they are getting a buff in this patch.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ USA
My biggest problem with the game was the terrible "net code" and warping. From what I understand, the net code thing also existed in Dark Age of Camelot (uses the same engine though a much older version) and does to this day. If they have no intention or no way of fixing such a major game breaking (for me) problem, I have no intention of playing the game again. Is the net code actually being optimized and fixed?
OP
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Thread Starter
- #39
Collision detection is a double edged sword. If enemy players can run past our tanks, then neither should we... I think that it's working as intended.
Warping... not sure what you mean. Sometimes players would be infront of me and then end up behind me... WoW still does that today, EQ did it, EQ2, City of Heroes, Planet Side... I think it's an inherent flaw in MMO's not anything to do with WAR in particular. I would always get mad about it in WoW until I accepted it... Now in WAR I just see it as part of MMO's...
Warping... not sure what you mean. Sometimes players would be infront of me and then end up behind me... WoW still does that today, EQ did it, EQ2, City of Heroes, Planet Side... I think it's an inherent flaw in MMO's not anything to do with WAR in particular. I would always get mad about it in WoW until I accepted it... Now in WAR I just see it as part of MMO's...
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ USA
There was a common problem where you would block somebody's retreat and after a few seconds they would simply warp past you and be WAY too far to catch up to. Happened all the time. I read it was a part of the collision detection error correction. Then there was the thing with people floating through the air for long distances...
My main concern was the ****ty netcode and the unresponsiveness of game in combat. As a warrior priest, the only way to snare somebody was to first put a dot on them and then use a second instant attack that has a 10 second cooldown. The two combined effects triggered a snare effect. I found myself chasing people trying to put my dot on them with the animation showing that it had landed over and over and then hitting them with the second attack to snare them... unfortunately it seemed like nine times out of ten the dot wouldn't have landed and I'd waste the 10 second cooldown attack, which did land but with no DoT effect on them to trigger the snare. So I was screwed out of snaring somebody for 10 seconds. I'd then get snared, rooted, or knocked back myself. I don't have time to shift my focus from combat to the debuff section to look to see if a specific little icon is there all the time.
WoW hasn't had this problem as far as I can remember. Sometimes two effects from opposing players will land at the same time (two rogues stunning each other for example), but if the animation shows that it landed, then it DID in fact land.
It just boils down to the combat being unresponsive, laggy, unoptimized, clunky, jerky, and absolute garbage in my opinion. PVE was fine for the most part, but RVR/PVP was terrible. If they could SOLVE the clunkyness of the combat system, then it'd be a good game.
