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x800xt vs 6800 ultra: Does it matter for the simple guy?

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bandit390

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
Im tired of waiting and getting ready to buy one off ebay.

Im just your ordinary gamer. I probably will never overclock it.

Is one better than other, will I be even able to tell the difference?

Edit: Also which brand should I get?
 
Last edited:

Section8

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
No. But I would say get the 6800 because the XT's are still in very short supply. I just got an XT 2 days ago and I have to RMA it because it won't play any of my games like Far Cry, PainKiller, Vietnam wthout crashing. It also will not run 3DMark 2003 or AquaMark3? RMA time. I think I am going to get the 6800 next? :(
 

12am

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Location
Calgary AB Canada
Before you go wasting your money on either of the next gen cards, please consider the following. Pci express is replacing agp within the next 3 months, motherboards will no longer have an agp slot in them and vidcards will no longer be shipping in agp variants. Why waste the 300-500 it costs for one of these agp cards when 1)thier pci express variants will be out soon and 2)The agp cards will not be compatible with your next motherboard upgrade. If you don't already own one look for a Ati 9800Pro or a Geforce FX5900XT, both cards are good performers and can be had for relatively cheap nowadays. I can gauruntee you that either card will be running games nicely for the next year or so until your next big upgrade.
 

-=Ambush=-

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2003
Location
Biochemistry lab.
Just because pci-e is coming out dosen't mean all mobo manufactures are totally going to ditch AGP. :rolleyes: AGP will be around for at least a year, probably more around 2 years.

Plus pci-e is onlyt being pushed by intel, and as of right now it has no benefits. So there is no problem going AGP.
 

a c i d.f l y

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Notice how fast AGP revisions came out? AGP 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x. We haven't quite reached the bandwidth limit of the 8x agp slot, but that will soon be ousted.

Intel, Dell, and any other OEM manufacturer will be replacing their lines to include regular pci and pci-e slots. The Dimension 4700 includes a PCI-E x16, and 4 regular pci slots...

This will eliminate the 133mbps limit of regular pci cards as well. Gigabit nics, and such, will actually run at gigabit speed.... etc.

Of course, this person's decision will all lay on what he currently has, and if he feels like blowing a lot of money (which he probably does if he's looking to buy one of these new gen cards off Ebay, for a dying format).

-Frank
 

Dc5e

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
MA
well, the 6800 is looking pretty good. As of now, it runs faster than the x800xt in doom3. It also has sm3.0 which will give some performance increase.

I prefer ati, but the nvidia cards are looking mighty good. Too late i already got my x800pro.

i also wouldn't worry about pci-express if your not planning to upgrade your computer anytime soon within the next year or more.
 

OBLIVIONLORD

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Ati takes more of a hit in OpenGL then Nvidia does in DirectX so I may be going with Nvidia this time around unless Ati does somthin about the OpenGl situation. Startin with Doom3
 

L>MS

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
PCI-Express really isn't something that will improve performance over AGP8X the fact of the matter is that no cards exist with the ability to completely flood even the AGP slot, much less the PCI-e slot. Performance increases on PCI-e have been shown to be minimal and really prove a useless added expense for the end-user unless you are doing high end graphics rendering (which you aren't I presume as you are looking at gaming cards).

Now to the subject of which card is better:

I would have to say that it really depends what you like doing.

Pros Nvidia:

6800 Ultra presents Relatively similar DX9.0b performance.
6800 Ultra has much higher quality and faster OpenGL performance.
6800 Ultra supports new shading architecture that can be used by DX9.0c (used in Far Cry, real test will be patch 1.3) and OpenGL (used in Doom3). I also wouldn't doubt that this is used in Half-Life 2 either at release or soon after.
Nvidia supports Linux, a lighter better gaming OS for games that support or even ones that don't (WineX and Sedega).

Pros ATI:

x800 XT Platinum have a slight edge in current DX9.0 games, slight.
x800 XT looks prettier for right now. (Talking about the hardware by the way)
x800 XT Takes up less space.
x800 XT draws much less power.

Cons Nvidia:

If you have all PCI slots filled for some reason (POOR, poor southbrigde!) the 6800 will not fit.
Looks like a generic part (no colorful red board, yet Albatron or whoever will solve that along with others soon).
Draws a huge amount of power. Huge. (222 million transistors need to be fueled somehow)

Cons ATI:

MUCH MUCH slower at OpelGL, naysayers just need to look at Doom 3.
Linux support non-existent.
No architecture to support SM3.0, thus when games start to use that you will lose out with this card.


Really should be things you already know, but I figured I would compile them into a list for anyone that hasn't thought about all this.

Really I would say that if you have no reason to hate Nvidia or its distributors I would get the 6800U. If you are insistant on ATI like some ATIdiots seem to be, your best bet is to wait for the next generation of cards. Pure and simple x800's are just more refined 9800's.
 

micamica1217

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2002
I would realy like to first know just what your system specs are first, yet I'll take a swipe at you question anyway.

if you have a high end system, then getting one of the new AGP cards will prolong your system for at least another year or two.
no need to hop onto one of the first PCIe mobos, that most likely will not be as good as the second revision chipsets.

while SM3.0 will help from time to time...
90% of SM3.0 is not a performance inhancer.
SM3.0 will never be truly a IQ inhancer, at least on this generation of 6800 cards.
only in HDR will we see a IQ increase.
when using HDR in farcry, in SM2.0, btw, the framerate tanked, as compared to not using it.
if SM3.0 was used, it would be unplayable.
SM3.0 will help from time to time, in games like farcry for a small boost in frames, yet the x800pro is still beating the 6800gt's, even if the 6800gt is using SM3.0

a good read is here....Look.


it's still too early to truly call a winner in Doom3, yet I don't think ATI will get much better then some of the first timedemo testing.
yet just like when looking at farcry, I would not buy a card for one game.
OpenGL might be king with nVidia, but I still feel that the 6800u's "ultra shadowII" is what is truly helping in this benchmark.


now on to the cards themselfs:

the 6800u might have SM3.0 but as we see, it's far from the step up from SM1.0 to SM2.0.
the 6800u will game quite well at 1280x960 (or 1280x1024) with 4xAA and 8xAF.
the 6800u is not only power hungry, it takes two slots...no SFF for the 6800u.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME BRAND 450w POWER SUPLY or better, you might want to rethink getting this card.

the x800xt is cooler and less power hungry...
my x800pro is OCed to 550/550 with all you see in my siggy, plus two ccl's and a few led fans, all on a 430w psu.
while the 6800gt/x800pro/6800u is neck and neck in DX games (in that order)....
the x800xt will be able to play a full resolution higher then the 6800u, say 1600x1200 with the same eye candy.
it's only hurt by poorer OpenGL performance as compared to the 6800u.
smaller one slot design means that it could be used in SFF PC set up.

since the price is about the same, toss a coin if you can't make up your mind.

mica
 

Nandro

Disabled
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
Wherever I happen to be.
mica, I notice a big difference when playing FC using the SM 3 path in patch 1.2 My previous low FR would drop in the 20's, now its consistantly in the 40's which was quite impressive. I'm not sure what the exact settings are because when you go to the video options they all say custom except for 2. It looks excellent and the IQ is great. I know this patch has been recalled, but I hope that the next patch has the same benefit for the GT.
 

MoreGooder

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Location
Saint Louis, MO USA
NVidia has plans to bring back the dual card graphics system. Just go to their home page and there it is. It will use 2 PCI-E slots. Each card process half of the screen. This concept is old, but with the advent of a bidirectional, high bandwidth expansion card system (ie PCI-E) you will have incredible fps. I see us having at least two vid cards in our compies within 2 or 3 years as the norm for high end gaming, and is only possible with PCI-E.

Ok, back on topic:
I think that ATI has some catching up to do. If you want to spend the money on a good card, go with the 6800GT. It's the best bang for the buck and has the same # of pixel pipelines as the ultra. It can be overclocked to get up to Ultra speeds anyway with adequate cooling according to reviews I've read.
 

micamica1217

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2002
Nandro said:
mica, I notice a big difference when playing FC using the SM 3 path in patch 1.2 My previous low FR would drop in the 20's, now its consistantly in the 40's which was quite impressive. I'm not sure what the exact settings are because when you go to the video options they all say custom except for 2. It looks excellent and the IQ is great. I know this patch has been recalled, but I hope that the next patch has the same benefit for the GT.

yes, I fully know this.

yet I'm still beating 99% of all 6800gt's in the farcry benchmark thread.
this is with my system and vid card NOT OCed to the max.
(even against the SM3.0 guys like you....no offence intended.)
the only guy who is beating me is running an intel rig at 3.9ghz....
I did all testing at 3.6ghz, far bellow him.

*rant on* notice how in each of the new benchmarks for farcry, it's always outside?
not one test was done inside.
why not any tests that show inside performance?
because the 6800 cards then won't get any benifit from instacing....
now we understand why on the new benchmarks that nVidia supplyed, you get a small boost from SM3.0, yet when other websites tested on their demos, they got little, to no gain. *rant off*

you are relly getting most of your increase from the patch alone, without SM3.0
too bad the patch is bug ridden for all cards.


MoreGooder,
while I agree that the 6800gt is a great card, please understand that some peeps are having a hard time OCing them.
for some it's PSU related, others it's heat.
some, it's still unknown, as true 550 PSU's were used, and water cooling.
overclocking seems harder at this time for SOME 6800gt's...ultra's might run into the same problems.
just a heads up.

mica
 

scott_55X

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
USA
From the forums I've visited, generally speaking the GT is a great overclocker. The Ultra seems to be as well. Mine runs at 450/1.2 and that's using the "Y" splitter.

I really don't think there is a farcry benchmark conspiracy going on. I would think the outside levels would tax the video card more then the inside levels.
 

Nandro

Disabled
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
Wherever I happen to be.
Your benchmarks are great, I wont deny that. Unfortunatly I am running mine on an A2500+M @2400mhz because I have no AC at work I cant go any higher or OC my video card. My point is it runs smoother, my frames are all up, it dosent dip as low and I can turn the settings up further. I know people have had issues with that patch, but fortunatly for me I have had 0.
 

micamica1217

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2002
scott_55X said:
I really don't think there is a farcry benchmark conspiracy going on. I would think the outside levels would tax the video card more then the inside levels.

not saying there is a conspiracy.

yet indoors you'll get more bump mapping and far less chances for the SM3.0 to help any.


Nandro, glad to hear your fine with the patch.

mica
 

speed bump

Member
Joined
May 11, 2004
Location
Montana tech Butte mt.
Stupid question why is everyone spending all thier time on Farcry it isn't the only game out there. How about some other games besides Farcry becuase not every spends all their time playing a game and saying it looks pretty after they beat it we move on to the next one or play it MP if the setup for it is good enough. Also I still haven't heard anything about games that use the Crytek engine but I wouldn't be suprised if companies are already trying to get their hands on the D3 engine. So yes while Farcry is the king right now it probably wont be in two weeks and the next king is most likely going to favor Nvdia so using Farcry as your yardstick is a stupid idea becuase it means you have to use d3 as your next yardstick and that makes ATI not look so good from what I am seeing thus far.

Just something to think about.
 

OBLIVIONLORD

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Dom 3 is OpenGl, Farcry is king of DirectX untill Hl2 debuts.

Nvidia is king of OpenGl, Ati is king of DirectX. Nuff Said
 

Sentential

Contributing Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
Location
Knoxville, TN
First off I'd like to add that the 6800s *DO NOT DRAW ALOT OF POWER* not anywhere close to the mythical proportions that pplz claim they are.

Im on a Antec 430w True. My 12v rail is *better* with the 6800GT then it was with a 9800PRO. If you can run a 9800PRO, it will most certianly run a 6800 without any issue.

Pplz have blown the problems with the 6800 waaaay out of propotion.
 

micamica1217

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2002
Sentential said:
First off I'd like to add that the 6800s *DO NOT DRAW ALOT OF POWER* not anywhere close to the mythical proportions that pplz claim they are.

Im on a Antec 430w True. My 12v rail is *better* with the 6800GT then it was with a 9800PRO. If you can run a 9800PRO, it will most certianly run a 6800 without any issue.

Pplz have blown the problems with the 6800 waaaay out of propotion.

I'm gald that your doing quite fine.

yet you might want to talk to the peeps that are having problems with the 6800 cards, with PSU's better then yours.

and before you start going on that no one is having problems, or that the power requirements for the 6800gt is lower then the 9800pro....
you might want to do a little search here in this forums, at the futuremark forums, at the [H] forums, and as for power requirements, you can find two sets of graphs at THG.

(sorry, I mean no harm)

mica
 

coldfusion71

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Location
stillwater,mn
the only way you are going to have a problem with the card is if you have alot of stuff in your computer and a off brand powersupply. otherwise it will work fine with a good 300-350 , if you dont have the card dont go spouting off about things you have no expierence with.