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XMP profile has slowly become unstable over time. Is it the CPU or the RAM?

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Brando

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
I started finding my pc off after I could have sworn I had left it on several times. Then I actually saw a couple blue screens in a day and confirmed it. I had read about bad memory slots on my motherboard model and I know cpu's can degrade but I was able to run realbench stress test with all 16gb full as well as intel extreme tuning utility. I also played a bit of BF1 and everything seemed ok but if i left the pc alone for awhile it would eventually crash. Then finally yesterday morning I found it off again and when I powered up all i got was fans at full speed for a little while and then back off again with nothing on my monitor. I tried again when I got home from work and managed to get into the bios with an "overclock failed" message. Long story shot I set everything to default speeds and everything started up fine. If I set the RAM to XMP 1 (3000mhz cas 15) like before I can't even post. But if I set the ram to base 2400mhz I can run my cpu at (almost) full oc of 4300mhz at the same voltage as usual. How do I confirm if it's the RAM that's bad or if it's the onboard cpu memory controller? it doesn't seem like it's been long enough for anything to degrade.
 

Mr.Scott

Beamed Me Up!
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Everything to stock settings, ram to XMP. Does it run?
If ram will not run at rated/advertised speed or timings, then it's no good. Especially if it worked before. It's highly unlikely that it's the CPU.
 

petteyg359

Likes Popcorn
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
I'd be blaming the motherboard. I had that same board before I switched to my current Gigabyte board, and it took well over a full minute to post every time I turned it on and crashed a few times with unexplainable blue screens (which usually means bad memory). Never thought to try disabling the XMP profile.
 

RJARRRPCGP

Member
Joined
May 30, 2004
it took well over a full minute to post every time I turned it on and crashed a few times with unexplainable blue screens

Sounds a lot like a bad drive.



I started finding my pc off after I could have sworn I had left it on several times. Then I actually saw a couple blue screens in a day and confirmed it.

Looks like a failing cooler. Windows doesn't turn off your PC. It was a thermal trip, PSU or the motherboard. (least likely of the 3)
 
OP
Brando

Brando

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Everything to stock settings, ram to XMP. Does it run?
If ram will not run at rated/advertised speed or timings, then it's no good. Especially if it worked before. It's highly unlikely that it's the CPU.
everything is fine at stock. i can oc the cpu with ram at stock and everything is fine. as soon as i enable xmp i can't boot anymore oc'd or at stock. i've had my cpu at 4300 1.215v since yesterday and it's fine so far with ram at 2400mhz. setting it to xmp 3000mhz causes instant no post. here's my blue screen view report if it helps. some googling suggests memory issues.
Capture.JPG

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I just need to know if there's a way to tell for sure if there's a problem with the on die memory controller or if it's the ram. I could just order more ram and return it if the problem persists but nobody ships on the weekend anyway so I may as well see if I can figure it out another way.
 
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Mr.Scott

Beamed Me Up!
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
everything is fine at stock. i can oc the cpu with ram at stock and everything is fine. as soon as i enable xmp i can't boot anymore oc'd or at stock. i've had my cpu at 4300 1.215v since yesterday and it's fine so far with ram at 2400mhz. setting it to xmp 3000mhz causes instant no post.

Again, If ram will not run at rated/advertised speed or timings, then it's no good. Especially if it worked before. It's highly unlikely that it's the CPU.
 
OP
Brando

Brando

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Looks like a bad CPU or PSU, sorry...

Power supply looks pretty strong. Bad cpu memory controller then?
ps.JPG

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Again, If ram will not run at rated/advertised speed or timings, then it's no good. Especially if it worked before. It's highly unlikely that it's the CPU.

welp, I guess it's not too hard to rma ram. i just don't like the idea of costing gskill money for no reason. if no better ideas pop up by the end of the day i guess i'll start the rma process for my ddr4 kit.
 

Mr.Scott

Beamed Me Up!
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Power supply looks pretty strong. Bad cpu memory controller then?
View attachment 185095

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welp, I guess it's not too hard to rma ram. i just don't like the idea of costing gskill money for no reason. if no better ideas pop up by the end of the day i guess i'll start the rma process for my ddr4 kit.

Lol. You have to start somewhere. Ram is the most likely suspect, and most likely to fail.
I find it interesting that you push to it be the CPU or IMC. They almost never fail. I also find it interesting that you 'don't want to cost G.Skill money needlessly' but you wouldn't have any hesitation in costing Intel 4 times the money.
Newsflash: there is built in money at all of those companies for RMA's. You're costing them almost nothing. Don't ever hesitate to use an RMA.
 
OP
Brando

Brando

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
im not pushing for it to be anything. ram is the easiest fix and i really hope that's all it is. the worst scenario is motherboard since it's a pain to gut the whole case. i just prefer to do some homework before i start spending my money or even someone elses.
 

Mr.Scott

Beamed Me Up!
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Jun 9, 2013
I understand. Ram is the easiest, cheapest, and most likely to fail. There is your starting point. Homework done. :)
 
OP
Brando

Brando

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Thanks for the reassurance. I'll start the rma and see what happens.
 
OP
Brando

Brando

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
ok this is weird. i put in the new (corsair this time) ram and booted at 2400mhz mem spd and 4300mhz cpu spd no problem. then i tried xmp and adjusted the cpu ratio to keep it at about the same speed due to the 125mhz strap. this put it at 4250mhz cpu and 3000mhz ram. this caused the pc to go back to failing to post with nothing but loud fan noise and then power off. for some reason flipping the switch on the power supply for a minute lets me get into the bios when this happens. long enough to change settings without having to clear cmos. for some reason i decided to try going up to my old cpu speed of 4375mhz and xmp ram speed of 3000mhz. this got me back into windows and i have no idea why. all i did was raise the cpu speed by 125mhz. i originally went down to 4250mhz because i got a crash in BF1 and thought it was exposing instability. in hindsight this was when the instability started. so apparently i have to run my cpu at maximum oc to keep my ram at 3000mhz. i don't get it at all. i bought new ram for no reason because gskill won't cross ship and i don't have an extra set in the house.. oh well lol. that's the way she goes. i'll see if it keeps working but for now it seems to be ok. i'll try some gaming and see what happens.
 

Mr.Scott

Beamed Me Up!
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
ok this is weird. i put in the new (corsair this time) ram and booted at 2400mhz mem spd and 4300mhz cpu spd no problem. then i tried xmp and adjusted the cpu ratio to keep it at about the same speed due to the 125mhz strap. this put it at 4250mhz cpu and 3000mhz ram. this caused the pc to go back to failing to post with nothing but loud fan noise and then power off. for some reason flipping the switch on the power supply for a minute lets me get into the bios when this happens. long enough to change settings without having to clear cmos. for some reason i decided to try going up to my old cpu speed of 4375mhz and xmp ram speed of 3000mhz. this got me back into windows and i have no idea why. all i did was raise the cpu speed by 125mhz. i originally went down to 4250mhz because i got a crash in BF1 and thought it was exposing instability. in hindsight this was when the instability started. so apparently i have to run my cpu at maximum oc to keep my ram at 3000mhz. i don't get it at all. i bought new ram for no reason because gskill won't cross ship and i don't have an extra set in the house.. oh well lol. that's the way she goes. i'll see if it keeps working but for now it seems to be ok. i'll try some gaming and see what happens.
This is not the same problem you were having before.
Probably doesn't like the 125 strap.
There was a reason you bought new ram, you couldn't wait for the RMA to get to you.
 
OP
Brando

Brando

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
interesting that a lower cpu speed would cause instability when all else is unchanged. i guess i missed the meeting about cpu straps and stabilty. now i'm wondering if i can hit 4500mhz after all. it was unstable when i first tried back when i bought the chip but considering how sensitive this setup is to other settings i might be able to go higher as long as the memory isn't getting in the way. i think i may just start setting it manually after i find the optimal balance of speed and timings that won't interfere with straps/buses etc. in hindsight this whole experience is probably just karma for refusing to be a man and set memory manually in the first place. will cas14 2600mhz interfere with anything?
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
On X99 100 bclk is working at 2133, 2200, 2400, 2600, 2666, 3000 and 3200. However 3000 and 3200 depend on memory and motherboard.
125bclk is working also at 2666, 2750, 3000 but doesn't work on some higher settings.
The same looking from other way. These are memory ratios which are working:
at 100 bclk -> 21.33, 22.00, 24.00, 26.00, 26.66, 30.00, 32.00 ( on some older motherboards 30.00 is not working at 100bclk )
at 125 bclk -> 21.33, 22.00, 24.00, 26.00, 26.66, 28.00, 30.00, 32.00
( of course using 125 bclk+ and higher ratio then you will get much higher memory clock than memory or IMC can handle )

Most memory manufacturers are using 125 bclk settings for 2666, 2800 and 3000 memory kits.

There is also one more thing which is weird. On 8 memory slot motherboards sometimes something is degrading and max memory clock is lower. It's not the memory or IMC fault but motherboard design. I had the same on 3 motherboards and the same was on X79 ( then was even worse ). It doesn't mean it will happen on every board but sometimes I see that some users are reporting missing memory capacity or problems with stability even though the same rig without changes was working for couple of months.

Personally I set everything manually. Usually 3000 or 3200 memory at 100bclk and 4200MHz CPU. It doesn't require any special voltage adjustments and is quite easy to stabilize. From that point can go up to 4500-4700MHz bumping only cpu voltage.
 
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OP
Brando

Brando

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
thanks man i'm gonna give it a shot. taking the memory out of the equation should make things simpler. i think i read somewhere that 2600mhz mem at low latency gave the best average performance as well but that was just one article. now that i have 2 sets of ram i can play around for a bit and see whether the ripjaws V or the corsair lpx comes out on top.
 
OP
Brando

Brando

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
this corsair lpx 3000 isn't half bad for the $. so far seems ok at 13-14-14-36 @ 2666mhz
EDIT: Almost but not quite. got a blue screen after a few rounds of bf1. gonna try going down to 2600mhz 13-14-14-36.

Capture.JPG
 
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