Watercooling additive

tbaerg · Jan 16, 2004

Yo guys, I just read the list of water cooling additives and had the following thought. Is it possible to use a bit of bleach in a WC rig. I bet it would make a pretty good biocide, and if you only use a little, you'd never smell it. Just a thought....
Tom

UberBlue · Jan 16, 2004

tbaerg said:
Yo guys, I just read the list of water cooling additives and had the following thought. Is it possible to use a bit of bleach in a WC rig. I bet it would make a pretty good biocide, and if you only use a little, you'd never smell it. Just a thought....
Tom

Short answer... NO!

Long answer... Bleach is a corrosion accellerator. Even a tiny bit is enough. The chloride ions associated with bleach (sodium hypochloride) will eat the annodizing off aluminum in short order exposing the bare aluminum underneath.

IMO the safest biocide (as far as corrosion is concerned) is methanol.

MrMOSFET · Jan 16, 2004

Re: Re: Watercooling additive

UberBlue said:
Short answer... NO!

Long answer... Bleach is a corrosion accellerator. Even a tiny bit is enough. The chloride ions associated with bleach (sodium hypochloride) will eat the annodizing off aluminum in short order exposing the bare aluminum underneath.

IMO the safest biocide (as far as corrosion is concerned) is methanol.

What about if your system is just copper/bronze/poly?

UberBlue · Jan 16, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Watercooling additive

MrMOSFET said:
What about if your system is just copper/bronze/poly?

IMO it's still a bad idea. Would you put salt water in your system? Bleach is an oxidizer. Oxidizers = corrosion.

MrMOSFET · Jan 16, 2004

Ok... So first lets assume that we are using a system that contains Copper, Poly, Bronze, Tygon... (NO Aluminum)

Distilled Water is a no brainer...

To increase performance add something like SuperCool, Water Wetter, Hydro Cool, etc.... (This stuff also prevents corossion)
Any reccomendations out of these? I don't reall think I would want to add AF... because in an all copper system it isnt really needed right and only hinders perfomance?

and for a biocide add Methanol... Is there another source of Methanol other than windshield washer?

I really want to get all this straight.

felinusz · Jan 16, 2004

If you have anodized aluminum in your system adding a good (15%+) amount of corrosion inhibitor isn't a bad idea. There was a thread a while back where a guy's Wwiftech block's Anodized Aluminum was eaten right through, and th block was ruined. Guess who had added a teaspoon of bleach to their water?

If you have only poly/copper, and brass then it's still a good idea to mix additive (bugs!), although less (~5-10%) is "needed".

Water Wetter forms a white film which many don't like (others claim it can clog stuff up, or that it hurts heat transmission). I used to use it, never saw the white goop, and changed to Prestone Dexcool Anti freeze simply because I wanted Orange water.

UberBlue · Jan 16, 2004

MrMOSFET said:
Ok... So first lets assume that we are using a system that contains Copper, Poly, Bronze, Tygon... (NO Aluminum)

Distilled Water is a no brainer...

To increase performance add something like SuperCool, Water Wetter, Hydro Cool, etc.... (This stuff also prevents corossion)
Any reccomendations out of these? I don't reall think I would want to add AF... because in an all copper system it isnt really needed right and only hinders perfomance?

and for a biocide add Methanol... Is there another source of Methanol other than windshield washer?

I really want to get all this straight.

IMO, adding anything will detract from the thermal properties of water. I've never seen any defiinitive testing done on SuperCool, Water Wetter,or Hydro Cool to see exactly what impact they have on cooling performance. Of course the makers are going to claim it's the greatest hing since sliced bread, but what the manufacturers claim and what really happens is unknown to us.

But we should use them as a corrosion inhibitor. If there is any cooling enhacement... Bonus

You can get methanol at NAPA. It's labeled as a windshield washer additive. Look at the back label. It should be %100 methanol.

MrMOSFET · Jan 16, 2004

UberBlue said:
IMO, adding anything will detract from the thermal properties of water. I've never seen any defiinitive testing done on SuperCool, Water Wetter,or Hydro Cool to see exactly what impact they have on cooling performance. Of course the makers are going to claim it's the greatest hing since sliced bread, but what the manufacturers claim and what really happens is unknown to us.

But we should use them as a corrosion inhibitor. If there is any cooling enhacement... Bonus

You can get methanol at NAPA. It's labeled as a windshield washer additive. Look at the back label. It should be %100 methanol.

Ok good... that makes a lot of sense. I think this is going to be the most difficult part for me. There are far too many choices in terms of additives. It would be awesome if someone came out with a review/comparison of all the additives.

I think I am going to avoid water wetter... right now I have my eyes on Super Cool, Hydro Cool, Zerex, Zitrec and the blue stuff for VW.

I simply don't know what the "best" additive is... how much to put in the system... What sort of ratio is appropriate in a non-aluminum system?

Water: 90%
Methanol: 5%
Additive: 5%
?

BigSmokey · Jan 16, 2004

Its hard to get good answers for water addatives. Its almost like asking what brand of ciggy's to smoke. Its about 90% based on opinion, 7%BS, and 3% fact. Figuring out which is what is the hardest part.

I use zerex water pump lubricant and PROTECTOR (7%) and Water. I dont know what kinds of results I will have, but so far so good, going on a month now. Too soon to tell about bacteria and such, but with all the warning on the label, the stuff sounds pretty hazardous to life.

MrMOSFET · Jan 16, 2004

BigSmokey said:
Its hard to get good answers for water addatives. Its almost like asking what brand of ciggy's to smoke. Its about 90% based on opinion, 7%BS, and 3% fact. Figuring out which is what is the hardest part.

I use zerex water pump lubricant and PROTECTOR (7%) and Water. I dont know what kinds of results I will have, but so far so good, going on a month now. Too soon to tell about bacteria and such, but with all the warning on the label, the stuff sounds pretty hazardous to life.

Is this the stuff you are using? Where did you get it from?

Zerex

Soja · Jan 16, 2004

All copper/brass system 100% distilled

MrMOSFET · Jan 16, 2004

Soja said:
All copper/brass system 100% distilled

No problems with growth or corossion? How Long?

Soja · Jan 16, 2004

I don't think you have to worry about corrosion in an all copper/brass system. Growth? I wish I took some snapshots of that funk that thrived in 20% AF + distilled. So far almost a month with distilled and a tablet of erythromycin (bacteria treatment for aquariums). My tubes are crystal clear although it hasn't been quite long enough to praise these tablets. It does look good so far since I usually have spots of funk form within a week or so

MrMOSFET · Jan 16, 2004

Soja said:
I don't think you have to worry about corrosion in an all copper/brass system. Growth? I wish I took some snapshots of that funk that thrived in 20% AF + distilled. So far almost a month with distilled and a tablet of erythromycin (bacteria treatment for aquariums). My tubes are crystal clear although it hasn't been quite long enough to praise these tablets. It does look good so far since I usually have spots of funk form within a week or so

Yeah, I know AF is not a good biocide at all! I have seen bacteria growing in stuff that was left in a can.

I also hear that all copper systems tend to kill stuff because copper is toxic.

I guess I am just horribly confused

I guess the Zerex stuff looks good because it made for pumps... just I dont know... grrrrr

nikhsub1 · Jan 16, 2004

No need to overthink this whole thing. I have used a lot of additives... water wetter you should avoid for sure. Uber is right about bleach, do NOT use it ever. I now really just use regular old Zerex anti freeze and distilled. I use about a 10% mix of the AF and it keeps everything nice and clean, nothing living and no corrosion. The 10% of AF will be undetectable in terms of temp diff between 100% distilled and 90% distilled and 10% AF.

MrMOSFET · Jan 16, 2004

nikhsub1 said:
No need to overthink this whole thing. I have used a lot of additives... water wetter you should avoid for sure. Uber is right about bleach, do NOT use it ever. I now really just use regular old Zerex anti freeze and distilled. I use about a 10% mix of the AF and it keeps everything nice and clean, nothing living and no corrosion. The 10% of AF will be undetectable in terms of temp diff between 100% distilled and 90% distilled and 10% AF.

Your system is copper/silver/brass correct?

hmm nothing grows on it? I am really afraid of growth in my system. I was thinking of adding a medical grade cbiocide like Betadine (small amount)

BigSmokey · Jan 16, 2004

MrMOSFET said:
Is this the stuff you are using? Where did you get it from?

Zerex

Yes, Autozone.

nikhsub1 · Jan 16, 2004

MrMOSFET said:
Your system is copper/silver/brass correct?

hmm nothing grows on it? I am really afraid of growth in my system. I was thinking of adding a medical grade cbiocide like Betadine (small amount)

Nope, nothing growing at all...

MrMOSFET · Jan 16, 2004

nikhsub1: How long have you been running your system for?

I am horribly paranoid about this.

nikhsub1 · Jan 16, 2004

MrMOSFET said:
nikhsub1: How long have you been running your system for?

I am horribly paranoid about this.

This particular system for about 7 or 8 months. Don't be so paranoid, the worst that would happen is that you disassemble the system, get new tubing, clean the blocks and reinstall. I do that about once a year anyway.

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