DIY External System

JEmlay · Feb 9, 2006

At first glance it would seem the Exos-2 system would be the best choice for me.

1. Money is no object.
2. Presentation is important.
3. No one here (that I've seen) can build a better looking external system. But I havn't seen everything so feel free to prove me wrong! I'd like to see.

So the only thing left is performance. I'm not looking for the best temps. I am however wanting to cool (1) CPU, (2) G71's (when they come out). I am also looking to keep things quit. I would like to overclock a little but nothing extreme.

People here hate external system because of price and performance. But like I said price is of no concern and performance only needs to be within spec (better then spec would be nice) after a little overlclocking and for those that ACTUALLY OWN and USE an Exos-2 seem to have no trouble at all. So all the gripping about the Exos-2 is for not and usually comes from those that have never even used it.

It seems to me that if the Exos-2 system was upgradeable, more people would like it. Upgrade the rad and the pump and you'd have a pretty bitchen system. So imagine if the Exos-2 was just a little bit bigger. You could have a more then adequate cooling system that looks great.

With that in mind I have seen a few posts regarding making your own external system out of an existing PC case. My first thought was "ok great", at least you can build your own and get more performance out of it and spend less. However the down fall is having two huge cases side by side.

So let's take it a step further and buy the smallest case possible that will hold everything. Imagine a box with a rad in the middle and (3) 120mm fans blowing and (3) 120mm fans blowing out. You could have all 6 fans running at thier lowest possible RPM , producing a huge amount of CFM, producing very little noise and get some damn good cooling. Anyway, whatever the design I'm sure others out there have already put thought and WORK into this.

Seems to me we need vendors willing to design cases for just this need. You supply your rad and pump, they supply the case, super small PSU and reservoir (accessed like the Exos-2) You could have 2X120 models and 3X120 models.

There you have it! I just said (out loud) an invention idea which means the invisible invention stealers heard it, went back in time, made the product and it already exists. Where can I find it?

Does anyone have any good "case" suggestions for making your own external solution?

From my other posts:
I still like the idea of stealing the rad from the Thermaltake Symphony. That would work perfect with my desk config in my home office. But that would still require a pump inside my existing case (but it's how I got started thinking about a super external rad). Which reminds me. Another question:

With an external system do you start to loose performance the longer the tubes are from your PC to your external solution? Take the symphony for example, in some situations that thing could be 6 feet away! Is that a performance hit? If it is, is it a MAJOR hit? Or are we talking 1-2C? Or does it just mean a stronger pump?

Thanks for any input!

Maviryk · Feb 9, 2006

go and buy an upright fan.. or a ceramic heater for a case...

MVC · Feb 9, 2006

JEmlay said:
With an external system do you start to loose performance the longer the tubes are from your PC to your external solution? Take the symphony for example, in some situations that thing could be 6 feet away! Is that a performance hit? If it is, is it a MAJOR hit? Or are we talking 1-2C? Or does it just mean a stronger pump?

All else being equal, the longer your tubing runs, the worse your performance will be. Now, this can be counteracted with a more powerfull pump but then you're changing the equation. For an extra couple of feet the difference is probably negligable, but for longer runs it could make-or-break the cooling system. I have no idea about the "Symphony"--I make my systems from scratch--but the theory is still applicable. Give it a try and let us know what happens.

JEmlay · Feb 9, 2006

Maviryk said:
go and buy an upright fan.. or a ceramic heater for a case...

I don't understand what this has to do with anything?

MVC said:
All else being equal, the longer your tubing runs, the worse your performance will be. Now, this can be counteracted with a more powerfull pump but then you're changing the equation. For an extra couple of feet the difference is probably negligable, but for longer runs it could make-or-break the cooling system. I have no idea about the "Symphony"--I make my systems from scratch--but the theory is still applicable. Give it a try and let us know what happens.

Let you know how what happens? That was a seperate idea that still requires a pump inside your existing case. The topic at hand is regarding the best case to use to make your own external solution. Thanks for the cable length info.

bartsimsonii · Feb 9, 2006

Why not a shuttle pc case or you can do amazing things from bondo.

Maviryk · Feb 9, 2006

Use the upright blower fan to house your external setup, ceramic heaters look good too.

MVC · Feb 9, 2006

I was responding to the concept of an external solution. If the pump, radiator, res (if any) are away from the computer case, regardless of what they're housed in, the longer the tubing run from the external "solution" to the compute case, all else being equal, the worse performance will be. For example, if the pump, rad, and res are in the basement and the computer is on the first floor, the result will be better than if the computer was on the second floor--the water doesn't have to go as far, the pump doesn't have to work as hard, etc.

glasslicker · Feb 9, 2006

JEmlay said:
At first glance it would seem the Exos-2 system would be the best choice for me.

1. Money is no object.
2. Presentation is important.
3. No one here (that I've seen) can build a better looking external system. But I havn't seen everything so feel free to prove me wrong! I'd like to see.

So the only thing left is performance. I'm not looking for the best temps. I am however wanting to cool (1) CPU, (2) G71's (when they come out). I am also looking to keep things quit. I would like to overclock a little but nothing extreme.

People here hate external system because of price and performance. But like I said price is of no concern and performance only needs to be within spec (better then spec would be nice) after a little overlclocking and for those that ACTUALLY OWN and USE an Exos-2 seem to have no trouble at all. So all the gripping about the Exos-2 is for not and usually comes from those that have never even used it.

It seems to me that if the Exos-2 system was upgradeable, more people would like it. Upgrade the rad and the pump and you'd have a pretty bitchen system. So imagine if the Exos-2 was just a little bit bigger. You could have a more then adequate cooling system that looks great.

With that in mind I have seen a few posts regarding making your own external system out of an existing PC case. My first thought was "ok great", at least you can build your own and get more performance out of it and spend less. However the down fall is having two huge cases side by side.

So let's take it a step further and buy the smallest case possible that will hold everything. Imagine a box with a rad in the middle and (3) 120mm fans blowing and (3) 120mm fans blowing out. You could have all 6 fans running at thier lowest possible RPM , producing a huge amount of CFM, producing very little noise and get some damn good cooling. Anyway, whatever the design I'm sure others out there have already put thought and WORK into this.

Seems to me we need vendors willing to design cases for just this need. You supply your rad and pump, they supply the case, super small PSU and reservoir (accessed like the Exos-2) You could have 2X120 models and 3X120 models.

There you have it! I just said (out loud) an invention idea which means the invisible invention stealers heard it, went back in time, made the product and it already exists. Where can I find it?

Does anyone have any good "case" suggestions for making your own external solution?

From my other posts:
I still like the idea of stealing the rad from the Thermaltake Symphony. That would work perfect with my desk config in my home office. But that would still require a pump inside my existing case (but it's how I got started thinking about a super external rad). Which reminds me. Another question:

With an external system do you start to loose performance the longer the tubes are from your PC to your external solution? Take the symphony for example, in some situations that thing could be 6 feet away! Is that a performance hit? If it is, is it a MAJOR hit? Or are we talking 1-2C? Or does it just mean a stronger pump?

Thanks for any input!

glasslicker · Feb 10, 2006

JEmlay said:
1. Money is no object.
2. Presentation is important.
3. No one here (that I've seen) can build a better looking external system. But I havn't seen everything so feel free to prove me wrong! I'd like to see.

Hmmm. I'm going to get slapped by admin, but i feel compelled to respond to some of your impressions and opinions.

If your convinced that a shiny external box is for you, then why make the comments you did? This probably isn't the best place to belittle others for their distaste for price versus performance of 'kits'.

Also, as politely as I can say this, some of the modders here are exteremly talented and make things far superior in looks, finish and design to anything manufactured. I don't know where you've been looking but head over to the Project Logs and take the time to go through the pics.

To say that everything you've seen (your item 3) is below that of the Exos is an insult to those here that pour hundreds of hours into projects and share their work with those of us that aren't as creative.

Buy the Exos and don't worry about what everyone thinks here.

Heck, you'll be the hit of the party !

JEmlay · Feb 10, 2006

Maviryk said:
Use the upright blower fan to house your external setup, ceramic heaters look good too.

I pictured a typical fan sitting on the floor... I guess I need to figure out what an upright blower fan is. I'll google it. I use a blower fan on my current case for it's A/C unit but it's certainly nothing I could build inside of. It's about the size of an empty toilet paper roll.

MVC said:
I was responding to the concept of an external solution. If the pump, radiator, res (if any) are away from the computer case, regardless of what they're housed in, the longer the tubing run from the external "solution" to the compute case, all else being equal, the worse performance will be. For example, if the pump, rad, and res are in the basement and the computer is on the first floor, the result will be better than if the computer was on the second floor--the water doesn't have to go as far, the pump doesn't have to work as hard, etc.

I got that part and thank you. It sounded like you thought I was going to build something out of the Symphony. If I can I'd like the external solution to be 4-5 feet away from the main PC. That puts it on the floor and the fans out of my face.

glasslicker said:
If your convinced that a shiny external box is for you, then why make the comments you did?

You'll have to explain yourself more. The comments I made are how I feel about what I want. I haven't changed my mind.

glasslicker said:
This probably isn't the best place to belittle others for their distaste for price versus performance of 'kits'.

What do my feelings, wants and needs have to do with the other people on this forum? I didn't belittle anyone. Sorry you feel that way. You kind of sound guilty??? I'm all for performance as long as it's in-line with the big picture of what I want. I think I know what you are getting at and it might go along with #3? I hear a lot of people spouting not to buy the Exos-2 because you can build better for less. I challenge anyone to actually do that! Build a better EXTERNAL system for less. However BETTER would also mean looks (see #2). However I don't care about "better" looks, for me even "equal" looks would be kewl. I hear a lot of talk but I haven't seen any pictures that back any of it up.

glasslicker said:
Also, as politely as I can say this, some of the modders here are exteremly talented and make things far superior in looks, finish and design to anything manufactured. I don't know where you've been looking but head over to the Project Logs and take the time to go through the pics.

You seriously need to quit taking offence. Why do you need to try to be polite? It sounds like you are directly answering my question here. If you are telling me that these Project Logs contain finish external designs then that is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. I'll go look for them but if these logs exist then why is there a STICKY for finished WC rigs? Wouldn't that be redundant? If that is the thread you are speaking of then I already saw it and it did not contain any external systems other then the Exos-2 and people once again bad mouthing it.

glasslicker said:
To say that everything you've seen (your item 3) is below that of the Exos is an insult to those here that pour hundreds of hours into projects and share their work with those of us that aren't as creative..

You are, again, going to have to explain further. I had three other people read this and no one knows what you are trying to say??? My number 3 states from what I've seen and (I was very specific about this) that I haven't seen everything. It almost sounds like you are trying to say, that I said, everything I've seen here is no better then the Exos? If that's it then you are DEAD WRONG. You need to go back and re-read. I was not saying that at all.

It seems to me you not only mis-understood my post but also took offense to it? (yes, that is a question) Don't know what to tell you bro. I'm here looking for help on an external system. I'll try to hunt down those logs you mentioned and if they contain external systems that look as good or better then the Exos-2 then I've hit gold and have you to thank for the point in the right direction.

If you don't like the Exos-2 or ALL external solutions then good for you. However this is an Exos-2 friendly thread so an external "biased person" might not want to be in here.

One last thought about your post. Maybe you should fix that double post of yours. Only because you quoted all of my first post and it's a pretty "long" mistake sitting there for no good reason.

ls7corvete · Feb 10, 2006

Bah, this thread is going downhill fast guys, be carefull with your words.

OP, feel free to search around for quality work. You will find a reluctance of qualified craftsmen replying to your thread, they have better things to do than prove themselves....like make awsome stuff!!

Does anyone have any good "case" suggestions for making your own external solution?

Find what you think is the most pleasent box you can find and post and I am sure we can help find a setup to fit into it that will beat the heck out of the exos.

Lets make this a productive thread.

JEmlay · Feb 10, 2006

I'm confused. What the heck is the problem here? Why do you and glasslicker feel the need to insert negativity into this thread? Maviryk, MVC and I where doing just fine before you two. If you are going to be negative then go away PLEASE. I am saying PLEASE as in being NICE.

1. "OP, feel free to search around for quality work." You must have missed the part where I have already done that and came up blank. See #4 below:

2. I am NOT asking anyone to prove themselves. I brought a valid "thought" to this forum. The production of our own kick "rear", AS SMALL AS POSSIBLE, case. Basically something just slightly bigger then the exos that would allow people to make their own system PER CASE.

3. "Find what you think is the most pleasent box you can find and post" - that's just it.... I can't find anything but normal plain cases that are way to large.

4. Directed at glasslicker - a search for "Project Logs" came up with nothing but normal posts. I see no such logs. Do you have a link?

ls7corvete · Feb 10, 2006

Here ya go.

http://www.ocforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=136

Im not saying anything negative just saying there is a bit of confrontation in this thread that gets out of hand very quickly, I have seen it before.

The finished WC rig thread is somewhat outdated, just stick around for a bit and read you will get some ideas. You dont have to use a case, literaly any box, or any idea of a box can be adapted to WCing.

The thing is what do YOU want in your WCing box?

Think:

size (miniatx was suggested, try directron.com)
performance
components
looks/color/material
controls- knobs switchs
above case/below case/beside case

A whole lot of options out there and plenty to find on these forums. If the exos fits all your needs then by all means go for it.

JEmlay · Feb 10, 2006

Alternative modding? No wonder I didn't find it. Thank you for the link!!!!!!!!!!

"just stick around for a bit and read you will get some ideas."
I've read just about everything under watercooling. Check out my tag line area - "Joined: Jul 2003"

"size (miniatx was suggested, try directron.com)"
I was very specific about that. I'm trying to find one of these "up close".

"performance"
I was very specific about that.

"components"
All the components that make up water cooling. Which components is irrelevant as long as the majority of what is available will fit. The point is to be as generic as possible.

"looks/color/material"
That's to be worked on.

"controls- knobs switchs"
No more, no less then other prebuilt external solutions.

"above case/below case/beside case"
How many places can you fit any other external system? I believe they will fit on top and/or besides your PC.

"If the exos fits all your needs then by all means go for it."
You have completely missed the point of this thread. I don't know what else to tell you?

Let me quote myself containing the most important part:

Seems to me we need vendors willing to design cases for just this need. You supply your rad and pump, they supply the case, super small PSU and reservoir (accessed like the Exos-2) You could have 2X120 models and 3X120 models.

There you have it! I just said (out loud) an invention idea which means the invisible invention stealers heard it, went back in time, made the product and it already exists. Where can I find it?

I'm talking about developing a product line. I'm talking about doing what Koolance should have done and made their product upgradeable.

With your link I have a place to start looking. I hope it contains external solutions. I'm very interested in seeing a collaboration of existing designs.

ls7corvete · Feb 10, 2006

There have been a few custom jobs done that might fit your criteria, if you can find the thread maybe you can contact the people who did the work and have anouther done.

Might as well do your own design if your gonna have custom work done though.

JEmlay · Feb 10, 2006

A unique design will be put together. Need ideas from "experts" first.

fhanderson · Feb 10, 2006

What you can do is limited to your creativity, fabrication skills, and tools to do the job. I built this setup with future processors in mind. The picture has an IS7 and a 3.0C at 3.6 with a RBX block. It now has a DFI LP 875P-T with a 650 at 4.42G. The temps are 34-36C running dual FAH. The basic components are:

Dual Bonneville AC HCs
Mag 7 pump
MCW 6002 Block
Resevoir made from PVC pipe
10" fan
Home built box.

I have another setup, I will post as soon as I can get some pics.

noxqzs · Feb 10, 2006

Jemlay,

I was thinking about your idea a little bit, and think that the "universal" type of enclosure for a water cooling kit is not made due to a lack of standard in the hardware. There are just too many variations of the kits, that stamping out a framework to fit all possible configurations, would not be practical. It is certainly possible, but aesthetics take a back seat to functionality when the case is built to be compatible with many variants.

As far as building a unit similar to an Exos, my question is this, you want this to look like something you would buy prebuilt? i.e. fit and finish, components, performance. possibly an LCD readout?

I am actually going to take you up on that offer, and try to produce something similar. as a challenge, of course. I have a spare Matrix orbital LCD, BIP2, and mcp655. That should give me a good start.

One last thing. Perphaps to clarify your original intent with this thread, maybe you could edit #3 of your first post to say:

"No one here (that I've seen) HAS BUILT"

I think a few had a problem with the word CAN, lol. most know what you meant though.

fhanderson · Feb 10, 2006

I made this box from scrap pieces of wood that I had left over from other projects. This is a beta version as I plan to rework it so the loop is shorter, it is a little long for the mag 3 pump.

JEmlay · Feb 10, 2006

"due to a lack of standard in the hardware."
That is certainly something to design around. After all, how many different mainboard configurations can fit in, just about, any case? The only thing the user needs to get mounted is the rad, pump and fans.

1. For the mods in this forum, they would easily be able to install anything in the case.

2. For the average user - the mounting of any standard (flat) radiator can be made possible via adjustable brackets. The fans are a piece of cake. The only thing I'm worried about is the pump. With the pump, like you said, there are MANY different configurations. So we'll have to think outside the box on this one.

"I am actually going to take you up on that offer,"
Offer? I wasn't goating (?) anyone into building something today. I was wanting someone to show me that they HAVE built something better. But I'm glad I got a fire under you

I love sparking creativity. I have more engineering DNA then creativity DNA.

"I think a few had a problem with the word CAN, lol. most know what you meant though."
I see what you mean.

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