Flow sensor hunt.... with a few interesting links.

[Propaganda]

Hello

I am on the search for a small reliable cost effective flow sensor for a 1/2 system.

Currently I am waiting on replies from about half a dozen manufacturers in regard to pricing and specs.

Here are a few links for discussion.

http://www.flowmeters.com/products/index.cfm?task=pgDetail&pgID=511
$230... expensive and bulky.


http://www.flowdetector.com/?gclid=CLDN75OMp4kCFRBqGgodbFzHNQ
Check out the one to the lower left... looks promising.

http://www.swissflow.com/en/SF800
Interesting...

http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=16489
More info about the last.


http://www.thecoolingshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/1844
Rather restrictive on the first glance... not sure on the intake sizes.


http://www.flow-network.com/insertion_flow_switch.html
The CoolGuard (Type 4000) is neet... but it prob. needs extra equ. and the price will be sky high.
*edit* - $195 per unit pre volume discounts.


http://www.flowmetersource.com/s_rvm.htm
Yet again prob. pricey.



There are a few links... please help me out in my search for a good sensor.

[zebkoolindc]

I saw a guy make is own once. He took the blades and hub off an 80mm fan. Mounted it on a shaft in a sealed plexi box. One blade had a small magnet on it.

The water flowed though the box, turning the fan. The magnet rotated under a hall-effect sensor. Every revolution made electrical pulse. The faster the fan turned the higher frequency the pulses.

I don't remember where I saw it at, but it shouldn't be too hard to build. And if you use large barbs and a big box restriction should be minimal.


Zeb

[voigts]

I have asked and searched for the same thing for almost two years now with no good solutions, although I haven't made a determined, concerted effort on this. I would like to know why Innovatek is seemingly the only one to make a flow meter at all for PC watercooling.

[Propaganda]

http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FlowMeterRev2&Category_Code=FanOmatic

Thats a link for a Innovatek Flow Meter Rev 2.0

Only if they had that in 1/2".

I don't want a DIY solution. ATM.

[Encore2097]

The Swissflow was used in another project, it was called Metaversa and it provided great results.

[t4runnr]

Oldie. But a good one if you're patient enough to make it. (http://overclockers.com/tips1114/)

[ziggo0]

A box with a fan is one great way to kill your flow rate :(

[Sleepy_Steve]

A box with a fan is one great way to kill your flow rate :(
I was thinking the same thing... Hence why i can understand why the OP wants to avoid DIY if possible.

I wondered why he didnt use a 40mm fan... It would still hurt his flow rates, but not nearly as much as an 80mm would. Maybe the guy had big fingers?

[Propaganda]

.... Maybe the guy had big fingers?

lol


http://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/flow/SeriesP4Price.cfm
Meh.


This is driving me nuking futs!

-Prop

[Captain Slug]

http://www.alphacool.de/index.php/cPath/5_270_56/category/flow-meter.html (works even better if you drill the inlet and outletto the same ID)
or
http://www.webshop-innovatek.de/00000094271139704/000000942713b3501/500988953b0c9ee12/500988953b0dc5e17.html
or
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=239&products_id=20591

[MVC]

I've still got a few of these in a box somewhere. If you're interested, give me a PM and I'll dig one up for you. The complete thread this pic is attached to is here (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=3648095#post3648095).
http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=41297&stc=1&d=1114597686

Edit: Well, the picture linking didn't work as I hoped it would, but the link itself does work, so....

[Propaganda]

I received one reply so far... just the price of a sensor. I edited my original post.


MVC - I will look into them. I do want to perform a few GPM/PSI tests.

Which leads me into another idea.... PSI sensors!

Pros - No flow restriction. ! ! !

Cons - No cool paddle wheel for viewing. (no biggie)


http://www.alibaba.com/manufacturer/14340592/Buy_Pressure_Sensors_And_Switches.html
Factory set sensitivity... made for water applications...tiny... built in switch (8amps at 12vDC!)... it looks cheap to buy, well in 1000 quantities.

LMK know what you think of a PSI switch...

[Propaganda]

hmmm, I don't think a PSI sensor will work in a closed loop system. =/

[MoreGooder]

Gems Sensors (http://www.gemssensors.com/TOCproducts.asp)

[Propaganda]

Gems Sensors (http://www.gemssensors.com/TOCproducts.asp)

Some goodies in there... but the prices are quite high.

http://digidownload.libero.it/TSGsnc/C7195A.pdf
Wow.. This one is nice. "PF 1/2" minimum 8mm (4.4 Threads)" Hmmm

[Propaganda]

http://www.digiflowsys.com/DFS-20-series.html
This one is nice.... simple... looking more into it now.

*edit*

DFS-23 / DFS-23W ~ Hose Barb Fittings = 12 mm (15/32") !!!!!!

The PDF (http://www.zycon.com/Literature/219578/50415/DFS-20%20Series.pdf)

I think this is the one.

Time to take a beer break!

[Diggrr]

I have a couple of the Gems, one 1/2" and one 5/8". (1/4" NPT, and 1/2" NPT)
They're the RFI type that you have to count the revolutions to compute the flow, but it's easy if you paint one leg of the paddle wheel black with a Sharpie.
Bought them in the classifieds here many many moons ago.

There's also a spot in the housing that you can add a hall sensor if you'd like. The backside of the paddle wheel is hollow so it's easy to add a small magnet to.

I'd have to do some studying to figure out a hall sensor wiring diagram, because I never actually got around to it.

http://www.gemssensors.com/TOCResults.asp?nContentsID=74
Second one down.

*edit* $45 each isn't so bad for professional grade accuracy...

[Captain Slug]

A Rotameter would work too, but they're difficult to find at reasonable prices within the measurement range you would want (minimum max reading of 5gpm)
http://www.tradeindia.com/product_images/73618/b/Acrylic-Body-Rotameter.jpg

I just bought one on eBay.

[Propaganda]

http://www.digiflowsys.com/DFS-20-series.html
DFS-23 / DFS-23W ~ Hose Barb Fittings = 12 mm (15/32") !!!!!!


The sales Rep reply to my price inquiry dropped my jaw low, very low.
$400!... WTF... FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS! wow just wow. He replied with the right model number and PDF datasheet. I just can't imagine why they think they are worth four hundred dollars... all they are in a plastic barb with a spinner inside, a IR LED, and a IR sensor.


23PF1     DFS-23 with hose-barb connections         $400.00
23PF1N  DFS-23 with 1/4" MNPT connections      $415.00
23SS1N  DFS-23 with SS outer housing, 3/8" MNPT connections     $500.00

Tomorrow I am going to give them a call and ask them to justify their price. What gets me is they describe a similar version of the DFS-23 as "disposable".

Refernce link (http://www.digiflowsys.com/DFS-2w-3w.html)

__________

A gemsensor paddlewheel for $45... sounds of a good deal.

-Prop

[Propaganda]

http://www.koboldusa.com/product_files/SFL_datasheet.pdf
Another interesting meter.... but wtf again $240. (or so)

[QuietIce]

The catch is the ±1% accuracy. Anybody can throw a few parts together and stick a price tag on it but making a reliable and accurate product is a whole different ballgame ...

[Propaganda]

What % of accuracy would be sufficient for industrial usages?

Well, I guess it depends on the application....

It's tough to believe that a entrepreneur (belonging to the OC/WC communities) did not see this opportunity and commission a solution under $40. I would jump on it and crunch some numbers but I do not have the starting capital for such a endeavor.

-

[Graystar]

I've seen the Laing DDC pump for sale on industry websites for 180 dollars.

None of these items are priced at the consumer level. If they were they all would be a third of the price...maybe even less. But, of course, there's no consumer market for flow meters.

Personally, I like rotameters. I don't need a meter reading on my computer screen if I can just look at the meter on the box. And put an LED behind one of those acrylic Omega ones and it would look really cool!

http://www.omega.com/Green/pdf/FL2000.pdf

I think the FL-2066 is the one to get.

[QuietIce]

It's tough to believe that a entrepreneur (belonging to the OC/WC communities) did not see this opportunity and commission a solution under $40. I would jump on it and crunch some numbers but I do not have the starting capital for such a endeavor. If there was enough of a demand at the right selling price SVC, Petra's, Frozen CPU, or (insert your favorite store) would have already jumped on the bandwagon ...

[voigts]

If there was enough of a demand at the right selling price SVC, Petra's, Frozen CPU, or (insert your favorite store) would have already jumped on the bandwagon ...

I don't think that is necessarily the case. Most watercooling retail stores don't make anything. They simply resell. Danger Den is the notable exception to this. If Innovatek can make on in 1/4", I fail to understand why no one can seem to make one for 1/2".

[billb]

I use this:
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/c-61-flow-meters.aspx
I have it on a valved by-pass loop so the 3/8 isn't an issue. Not real accurate, about +/-0.1gpm. The housing can be removed and the readout remotely mounted on a 5-1/4 inch bay cover.

The DigiFlow 8000T incorporates a microprocessor control circuit and a magnetic turbine sensor to calculate the flow rate and flow volume. The DigiFlow 8000T can monitor a single filter by flow rate or flow volume, which can be programmed by the user. The user can program it to either display the real flow rate or volume, or count down from the programmed flow rate or volume and generate a sound alert when it reaches the end.
Features:

* User can program the DigiFlow
* Monitors a single filter
* Power source is two AAA alkaline batteries which last for more than two years
* Status is automatically memorized when power is off
* Mainly for residential and industrial water treatment application

Specifications:

* Capacity counters: 1
* Flow rate reading: Yes
* Capacity setting range: 100-9900 gallons
* Timing setting range: 30-720 days
* Flow rate range: 0.3-3.5 gpm
* Accuracy: +/-5%
* Connection: 3/8" NPT
* Working temperature: 40-100°F
* Working pressure: 8-100 psi
* Unit: Gallon
* Power: 3 VDC, 2 x AAA Battery
* End of capacity buzzer alert: Yes
* Dimension: 74 W x 70 H x 52 T

Recommended Parts:

* 3/8" Straight, Elbow, or Swivel Elbow Male Connector

[Propaganda]

I use this:
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/c-61-flow-meters.aspx
I have it on a valved by-pass loop so the 3/8 isn't an issue. Not real accurate, about +/-0.1gpm. The housing can be removed and the readout remotely mounted on a 5-1/4 inch bay cover.

The DigiFlow 8000T incorporates a microprocessor control circuit and a magnetic turbine sensor to calculate the flow rate and flow volume. The DigiFlow 8000T can monitor a single filter by flow rate or flow volume, which can be programmed by the user. The user can program it to either display the real flow rate or volume, or count down from the programmed flow rate or volume and generate a sound alert when it reaches the end.
Features:

* User can program the DigiFlow
* Monitors a single filter
* Power source is two AAA alkaline batteries which last for more than two years
* Status is automatically memorized when power is off
* Mainly for residential and industrial water treatment application

Specifications:

* Capacity counters: 1
* Flow rate reading: Yes
* Capacity setting range: 100-9900 gallons
* Timing setting range: 30-720 days
* Flow rate range: 0.3-3.5 gpm
* Accuracy: +/-5%
* Connection: 3/8" NPT
* Working temperature: 40-100°F
* Working pressure: 8-100 psi
* Unit: Gallon
* Power: 3 VDC, 2 x AAA Battery
* End of capacity buzzer alert: Yes
* Dimension: 74 W x 70 H x 52 T

Recommended Parts:

* 3/8" Straight, Elbow, or Swivel Elbow Male Connector

That's neet.

The best think I've found so far (for the price) is the Honeywell C7195A/B... Besides the Swissflow.

C7195A PDF (http://europe.hbc.honeywell.com/downloads/EN2R9029.PDF)

The problem with the Honeywell C7195A is that they don't really exist in the US from what I gathered from talking to a half dozen companies.

Here is one UK distributer...Catalog page. (http://home.btconnect.com/abtap.com/cat.html)

"Honeywell C7195A- 1011 £ 14.00"

"1011" is for the wire out type.

Not a bad price.

Anyone from the UK that can call the # on the linked PDF for a price inquiry?

~Prop

[UmHelp]

check ebay for proteus flow switches. I got a Proteus 350C on ebay for 20 bucks. It may be an older model but for WCing purposes it works.

It used 1/2" NPT fittings.

http://proteusind.com/300/300_sensors1.html

I haven't figured out how to hook it up to any kind of external display to get a read out. If anyone knows how to do it i would greatly apreciate it :D. PM me or something. ;)

[Propaganda]

Good deal... but ridiculously too large and expensive to buy new. EBay has two used for $20 atm.

[Graystar]

Anyone have any experience with this one?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=14681&N=2004+113778

Measures 50 to 250 GPH (0.83 to 4.1 GPM.) I'd like something that start at 0.25 GPM, but for 6 bucks this might be worth playing with.

http://a1272.g.akamai.net/7/1272/1121/20060410152633/www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/normal/p_25783_FS34892P.jpg

[UmHelp]

:edited::D

pretty cheap though and has 3/4in fittings if you got it would would have to get some comverters.

[QuietIce]

that is a really high flow rate. It probably wouldn't even read anything at all in a watercooling situation with a normal pump. :confused:

[Graystar]

that is a really high flow rate. It probably wouldn't even read anything at all in a watercooling situation with a normal pump. pretty cheap though and has 3/4in fittings if you got it would would have to get some comverters.
If you think 0.83 GPM is really high then may I suggest you upgrade your pump? :p

I've see garden hose->1/2" barb fittings. I wouldn't be surprised if Home Depot or Loews had them.

[UmHelp]

opps didnt see per hour. If it was 50-250 gpm then it would be different story. doh :bang head my bad

50-250gpm is alot and it would be hard to believe that that little plastic thing could actually handle that much volume. Maybe I should have thought about the numbers a bit more, even though I thought it was gpm logically those numbers would never hold up. :bang head

After actually reading the stats in depth:
Measuring Range: 50 to 250 gallons per hour
Maximum Pressure: 210 pounds per square inch
Temperature Range: 50° to 95°F (10° to 35°C)
Connection: PT 3/4" (standard piping thread) 3/4" flexible water hose/tubing
Aquarium Style: Fresh or Saltwater

It might be worth a try but the temp range seems a bit low, shouldn't be much of a problem though. For 6 bucks plus all the converters it would make for a good experiment.

[QuietIce]

35°C for water shouldn't be a problem - mine runs 26°C at most (ambient +~4). I thought it was a little low at first too but we're not talking CPU temps ... ;)

[Pf.Farnsworth]

marci's post on the topic if of interest:

"Flow METERS or flow INDICATORS? Indicators visually show flow. Meters measure the flow and give readout via rpm cable.

Indicators - all out there restrict flow by up to 50%.
Meters - all restrict flow, the best restricting by around 5 to 10%.

Their use generally reduces performance. Swissflow SF800 is the only METER I'd ever recommend. Flow indicators - no good ones out there that I know of that don't shaft flowrates down the pan.

Basically, if using flowmeters or indicators, better to use 3/8" ID tubing. Inner jet of all flow meters and indicators out there is at best 8mm afaik, which is 2mm below 3/8" ID."

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=124854&highlight=%22flow+meter%22

[Graystar]

Well I got one and played with it a bit. First, I'm astonished that my standard DDC+ recorded 130 GPH. Routing was simple:

1 ft hose > pump > 1 ft hose > flowmeter > 1 ft hose

130 GPH is 492 liters...just 8 liters off of the 500 liter per hour freeflow rate that is listed in the Laing documentation for the DDC+. That works out to 2.17 GPM.

What this all means is that the Friction Head for this flowmeter is tiny.

But it's not all good news. That said, 130 is just less than half of the range. I would get that you'd get very little indication if your flow is close to 1 GPM. I'm going to try to modify the float so that the full force of a DDC+ pushes it to the top of the meter. After that you just need to recalibrate the lines and it should be good.

This the cap at the top and the float.
http://home.nyc.rr.com/graystar/watercooling/IMG_0193.JPG

Water goes up the outer tube and down the center tube.
http://home.nyc.rr.com/graystar/watercooling/IMG_0194.JPG

This is the 3/8" X garden hose connector I got at Loews. It cost more than the friggin flowmeter!
http://home.nyc.rr.com/graystar/watercooling/IMG_0195.JPG

[QuietIce]

Nice - you've convinced me! This will give me two meters so I have some kind of a cross-check ...