The Headache of Vista DRM

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the DRM is kinda the point of vista, in the hardware and OS.

DRM isn't a big deal. The Inquirer is a crap site, that uses inflammatory articles to get visitors. They're often filled with half truths, and missing information. In this case, DRM can cause degradation of video quality if all hardware and software checks don't follow a secure path and content owners choose to enable that feature in HD content. Regular CDs and DVDs will play fine.

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johnz said:

DRM isn't a big deal. The Inquirer is a crap site, that uses inflammatory articles to get visitors. They're often filled with half truths, and missing information. In this case, DRM can cause degradation of video quality if all hardware and software checks don't follow a secure path and content owners choose to enable that feature in HD content. Regular CDs and DVDs will play fine.

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agreed I have been running Vista64 in my htpc since November with no problem. I just watched the HD-DVD version of 300 no problem.

SilverSinkSam had problems playing some DVD's, Vista kept giving him DRM errors, saying he wasn't permitted to view them (legal DVD's). The main difference between Vista and XP is the addition of lots of new DRM technology and a new GUI (and directx10, but that doesn't matter yet).

XP is still faster, more stable, more compatible, and has less DRM. I just can't see a reason to go with Vista.

MRD said:

XP is still faster, more stable, more compatible, and has less DRM. I just can't see a reason to go with Vista.

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I wouldn't be so certain of that... for the average joe, Vista will feel much faster due to superfetch and the video card rendered interface. If rumors are true about SP1, it will perform even faster than it is now. It already exceeds XP in terms of multithreading performance.

I could also argue that vista is more stable due to the off shoring of the sound subsystem away from the kernel. And the DRM (at this point at least) has very little to no effect. What's the worst part about the DRM? Many say it is the fact the some movies will have degraded quality due to a break in their secure path, but that same movie will play degraded on XP anyway (to my knowledge), so it's a moot point.

Compatibility wise, it dropped some legacy support and still has some fledgling or unmade drivers. I can't blame 'em, really. It's still a very compatible OS.

To me Vista is a much smoother OS and you can run your 64bit processer on a 64bit os. I switched from XP professional 64bit and havent looked back. I had a few issues with some games but a quick google sesion fixed those. I am running 4gb+ of ram and Vista64 has far more drivers than XP 64 ever did. With ram so cheap these days IMHO Vista64 and lots of ram is the way to go.

MRD said:

XP is still faster, more stable, more compatible, and has less DRM. I just can't see a reason to go with Vista.

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Every time you post a generalization that's only partly true like this concerning Vista (in particular) I will be here to point it out.

While some people may not NEED Vista there certainly isn't much of a reason for someone to install XP on a new PC or if reinstalling and have Vista as an option. Is Vista leaps and bounds better? Not really, but it's also not the spawn of satan as some seem to be trying to convince others.

Keep in mind I've used every windows release since 3.11 and have professionally supported every release since windows 95. I think I'm qualified to make a judgement call regarding this. And yes, I use Vista and support Vista for my employer.

The fact Vista shares most of XP's strongest features and improves on its weakest makes your statement contradictory.

There will always be a way around DRM. DRM is simply there to keep the PC inept honest. For those who want DRM free content they're likely not getting their digital media from the same source as those who don't even know what DRM stands for. Using DRM as a mark against Vista is inaccurate. And yes, I am a bit of a digital media hog and have run just about every type of media possible on my Vista install with zero problems.

IntruderII said:

Compatibility wise, it dropped some legacy support and still has some fledgling or unmade drivers. I can't blame 'em, really. It's still a very compatible OS.

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I had to dump my 3 year old lexmark photo color printer/scanner because Lexmark decided it was too old to continue support on. Is that Micro$oft's fault? As much as I would like to point the finger at them, it's Lexmark's decision. This is true for most missing hardware driver issues, and as far as I know only a handful of drivers written for Vista have failed due to something Microsoft had to correct. In most cases is it was poor and/or untested driver programming by the device manufacturer causing the problems.

johnz said:

DRM isn't a big deal. The Inquirer is a crap site, that uses inflammatory articles to get visitors. They're often filled with half truths, and missing information. In this case, DRM can cause degradation of video quality if all hardware and software checks don't follow a secure path and content owners choose to enable that feature in HD content. Regular CDs and DVDs will play fine.

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I thought in the US all cable/sat etc providers had to be HD and HDCP by 2010 or 2013.

Neur0mancer said:

I thought in the US all cable/sat etc providers had to be HD and HDCP by 2010 or 2013.

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That sounds about right. Tbh, I'm not a big fan of visual media, so I don't follow that area too closely. I wouldn't bet on everything changing over on schedule though. I've heard of some complaints, especially from seniors groups that claim the change over will cause too much confusion, and economic burden on the population. I would bet that the deadline gets extended, at least by a couple of years.

Pinky said:

In most cases is it was poor and/or untested driver programming by the device manufacturer causing the problems.

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MS also changed alot from their final developer release to their actual release, cause faulty drivers and programs for other people to fix suddenly.

At work we had software work flawlessly on the dev version and had to scramble to get it working by last weekend. The software didn't get changed in time, whose fault is that?

johnz said:

DRM isn't a big deal. The Inquirer is a crap site, that uses inflammatory articles to get visitors. They're often filled with half truths, and missing information. In this case, DRM can cause degradation of video quality if all hardware and software checks don't follow a secure path and content owners choose to enable that feature in HD content. Regular CDs and DVDs will play fine.

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DRM is not an immediate big deal, but it should be a long-term concern on everyone's radar.

The mere possibility that this technology could be misused to injure consumers needs to be quite well investigated, and sufficient legal safeguards put in place to prevent such injuries.

Captain Newbie said:

DRM is not an immediate big deal, but it should be a long-term concern on everyone's radar.

The mere possibility that this technology could be misused to injure consumers needs to be quite well investigated, and sufficient legal safeguards put in place to prevent such injuries.

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I was speaking more specifically as it relates to Vista. DRM is a bunch of crap, and it needs to be dealt with. Putting the attention and blame on MS isn't the right avenue of attack though. People need to complain to the studios, and speak with their wallets. if there's enough backlash, that can put a stop to at least the worst DRM schemes.

The level of control that Vista gives Microsoft over your computer is unprecedented. That alone should be reason enough to avoid the OS entirely.

and Pinky, it's not a generalization, XP IS faster, more stable, and more compatible than Vista, hands down, and the DRM is far, far less intrusive. Every test shows that Vista uses more resources and runs applications slower (the only exception will be directx10 games). XP is slower than 2K, albeit only slightly, even this many years after its release.

You have to give up a lot of freedom to get a bit of eye candy, not a tradeoff I'd be willing to make. Microsoft isn't the only company responsible for this. The recording / movie studios are just as much at fault, but Microsoft is very much to blame too. Microsoft jumped on it as a way of controlling software piracy, which in itself is not a bad goal, but they were perfectly willing to remove the consumer's ability to do many legitimate things, and to slow down his/her computer, in order to accomplish that goal. I refuse to pay extra money to get an OS that uses my system resources to police me, just in case I might do something wrong, even when I haven't, and have no intention of doing so.

Your name is DRM backwards! *cue x-files music*

LOL I never noticed that MadMan007

As well MRD stability of the OS is dependent on the software you use. If you use an unstable POS sure its the softwares fault not the OS. Sure some of it can be pinned on the OS but as well some has to be pined on the software or even drivers.

I just like to say that with my experiance as I have stated many times before. Its even stablier than XP ever was for me. Sure this might not be the case for everyone but it runs better and programs that use to crash on me actually don't anymore. Now im not sure if it was a driver thing or OS thing since I will not install XP again on my system.

As well yes SSS has had issues with the DVD not playing so did I. I installed some driver package for codecs and thats what did it to me. It took a while to figure out what the issue was but when I figured it out, it fixed it. Oh yeah and alot of those articles are total BS. They really point out the flaws in everything making it sound bad, but most articles are total BS just to boost traffic to there site I swear.

Your name is DRM backwards! *cue x-files music*

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ROFL that's funny. I never noticed that.

FireMogle said:

At work we had software work flawlessly on the dev version and had to scramble to get it working by last weekend. The software didn't get changed in time, whose fault is that?

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I'm not aware of any widespread issues like this. Notice the openness of the language I used - 'most', 'many', 'majority', etc. You folks drew the short straw.

We're still having issues from time to time with some VPN software in Vista, but those cases have been software developer issues.