water cooling on the cheap

can anybody give me some good feedback into my ideas of a water cooling system i have designed but not built. question two is where can i get a cheap water block that works well.

for my design, i have a large sized styrofoam ice chest for my reservoir. i will have four two liter soda bottles frozen, two in use, two waiting to replace the others once they thaw. a electronic fuel pump for an automobile (i'm an ex mehcanic), for added cooling prior to return to the styrofoam chest i will use a transmition cooler either with a fan or mounted in front of my swamp cooler exhaust vents to pre-cool the water before returning it to the ice chest. a conventional fuel pump is capable of 40-80 psi, so i may have to undervolt it a bit to prevent leaks from occurring. since this will be an "open" system unlike in a car where the system is "closed" (or under pressure) i will get serious volumes of water being pumped in the gph range. i have a couple of water blocks in mind, but i don't want to spend $50 for one as i am disabled and live on a fixed income. this is why i came up with the ice chest idea, two frozen 2 liter bottles should keep her frosty for a day, then i swap em for the ready made frozen ones and refreeze the two i just removed. this is more cost wise than buying a apartment refrigerator (the small ones) and will have basically the same effect, cooler than ambient temperatures. the transmittion cooler is optional, but here in the desert of new mexico it may be a requirement once summer is in full swing. an aftermarket universal fuel pump is cheap and powerful, if i can't find one locally i can ask for the cheapest in tank style fuel pump they have. i would get the proper tubing and use foam insulation on them to and from the reservoir at least.

i am running a p III 800E coppermine with a mild oc of 920 mhz. on cold nights i open the sliding glass door, and with the fans i have i get as low as 48 degrees F. i will also be getting some arctic silver 3 to improve conductance at the core. i had a custom made shim in place but i heard they can actually add heat rather than remove it, so i took it out. also, this is a slot 1 processor on a SECC2 card. i am very good at figuring out how to clamp things down, i don't think i will have a problem adapting a P4 heatsink to this card.

any comments, or suggestions are appreciated. i realize being a newbie at water cooling can be a challenge on a tight budget, but i know it can be done. i have in the past been able to acheive overclocks of 992 mhz on a asus bx board, which aint bad considering that the board doesn't support FSB's over 124/33 it just wont do it. help me if you can guys and gals, and if these ideas inspire anyone else who wishes to make a water cooling system from scratch using unorthidox methods, more power to you.

thanx, wisdom.

hey u may actually find it easier to run a sealed system with a heater core. u could probably make it entirely out of copper tubing and braze all the joints. then go and pressureize it. use maybe a be cooling block and u will get fair temps however if u wan to do that you may find something involving a little less work. i mean u mentioned a dissability and i igure it may(depening on your surcomstances) become more work than planned. you will also of course want tto take theoppinions of some of the senior or more qallified members in this field as i havent explored much into the chilled form.

hummmm, you mentioned being on a fixed income and doing a semi-active solution like you say with ice is going to add a bunch to your electrical bill cause your freezer will need to run more often. you have to be able to cool those 2 liters somehow, and that translates to more electrical stuff. just something to chew on

Yeah, I agree with the Fletchman, if you want cheap forget the active cooling. Read through some of the stickies here and whatnot and you'll probably see that in the long run setting up a system that doesn't involve active cooling (such as freezing bottles of water) is alot cheaper. My entire setup (CPU block, GF4 block, heatercore, pump, and tubing) cost around $150. I'm running a Pentium 4 2.4GHz oced to 2.88 and my temps are pretty constant at 32 F. In the long run this will be cheaper than paying the extra electricty bill for the work your freezer's going to have to do.

just some tidbits i can pitch into the mix:

I wonder how long those frozen two liters would last? [moment of genius]BTW freeze them without the caps on. [/moment of genius]

You do not want any kind of radiators in the loop unless the average temperature of your water is above ambient temp, which it may likely be. temp varies within a cooling loop with reasonable flow by no more than .5C, so unless the average temperature of the water is above room temperature, you do not want a radiator in the loop.

side-note: actually there is a difference between active and passing cooling that is being overlooked. active cooling typically means there is something forcing physical change, passive cooling means that natural conditions are doing the cooling.

active: pump, fan, ice, phase change, etc.
passive: heatsink, no heatsink

EDIT: edited for correction

if you want to go real dirt cheap, get a large container of at least 20 gallon capacity, set up a fan of some sort to blow over the top of it to aid in evaporation and just use that as a heatsink/heatexchanger. the evaporative effect provided by the fan keeps the water cool enough and thats all there is to it. just pump off that big resevior into your blocks and voila

orrrr you can run your tubes outside to a 45 gallon drum you have buried in your backyard... geothermal cooling, the deeper you bury it the colder it will be, to the freeze line (frost line is it? something like that - its the depth they bury your water lines so they dont freeze and burst in winter.). the ground below that stays right at 52F i believe year round.

thanks for all the tips guys. i live in a HUD apartment and therefore dont have to pay any utility bills for one, for two burying things underground here is not allowed. you would have to go deeper than 3 feet (top of container) to get any cooling. no matter where you go on earth except at the poles, anything at three feet depth will be 68 degrees F all year. some folks use this to cool their homes and is a very good and practical idea, but i would be kicked out if i did that.

since i don't have to pay to freeze those bottles, it is really the cheapest way to get below ambient temps. i don't have the money to rent a brazing torch, nor do i want a big ugly car radiator sitting in my living room.

what i really want to know is your opinions about using a fuel pump that is submersible or inline type. and what is the best cooling block i can get for little cheeze. keep trying boys, your help is apreciated!

thanx wisdom.

I.M.O.G. said:

orrrr you can run your tubes outside to a 45 gallon drum you have buried in your backyard... geothermal cooling, the deeper you bury it the colder it will be, to the freeze line (frost line is it? something like that - its the depth they bury your water lines so they dont freeze and burst in winter.). the ground below that stays right at 52F i believe year round.

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Actually in New Mexico it runs 65-70 degrees. I believe your frost line in OHIO is 15 feet? LOL Ours is 6-18 inches in new Mexico and Hot Springs gets hot (Thats the name T or C used to be)
My best guess is his ground might be warmer that 70 degrees year round.

I wanna go catch a Minnow outa the Butte say a 50Lbs striper.
March is the month.

I dont think a fuel pump is made for volume and it is made to be lubricated by gas.
1. Its not going to last.
2. Its not going to pump a volume of water.
A Maxi-jet is about 28 dollars including shipping.
You need a car heatercore for size and I knoew you can get a cheap 1 somewhere.

i think i was right after all... http://www.alliantenergygeothermal.com/howitworks/groundtemps.htm

or maybe not... are they saying thats just in ohio or around here too? ya they are in Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin

ah hell you got me.

i live in T or C. my grandfather is a nuclear physisist and when he tells me the temps at 3 foot dept are 68 F all year everywhere except the poles i believe him, he has worked at nasa and done oceanography to name a couple and has 5 masters degrees.

where can i get this maxicool at? fuel pumps are made to withstand the harsh corrosiveness of gasoline, they would indeed do well in water especially if you add windsheild washer fluid or a tad of antifreeze. this mixture would solve the lubrication problems. as for volume, they are capable of presurizing a system to 40-80 psi, with no presurization they should pump a very good volume. but i have found that water pumps designed for this application are cheaper, so out the door goes the fuel pump idea.

thanx wisdom.

I.M.O.G. said:

i think i was right after all... http://www.alliantenergygeothermal.com/howitworks/groundtemps.htm

or maybe not... are they saying thats just in ohio or around here too?

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Could be but where I live in Albuqurque there ia a jail pumping water from 200+ feet and the water is 100 degrees. They have to cool it before usage.
T or C was named for the HOT springs originall and is hot howver in the mountains herer you get Cold so it really depends.

The problem here is if he buried a copper line deap say 3 feet the loop would have to be fifty feet long and maybe doubled back but the line from the ground to the computer would have to be insolated in winter could get to cold and furing the day from the heat. We get 40 degree swings in temps most of the time.
Get 24 derees temp today morning and 55 degrees for the high.

You asked about a cheap block sorry to get off topic but the pop top is a good cheap block have you seen that?

i did some research on my own and saw for myself, you guys were right... i deserved to have to do some work to figure that one out... ignorant, i dont know what i was really thinking ya apologies for off topic too.

no i havent seen the pop top, how cheap, how does it perform, and where can i get it?

infinitwisdom said:

i live in T or C. my grandfather is a nuclear physisist and when he tells me the temps at 3 foot dept are 68 F all year everywhere except the poles i believe him, he has worked at nasa and done oceanography to name a couple and has 5 masters degrees.

where can i get this maxicool at? fuel pumps are made to withstand the harsh corrosiveness of gasoline, they would indeed do well in water especially if you add windsheild washer fluid or a tad of antifreeze. this mixture would solve the lubrication problems. as for volume, they are capable of presurizing a system to 40-80 psi, with no presurization they should pump a very good volume. but i have found that water pumps designed for this application are cheaper, so out the door goes the fuel pump idea.

thanx wisdom.

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Place 1
Place 2

...has 5 masters degrees.

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who doesnt? what? no PhD?!

:-D