Building a Business Server

Hi folks.
I have agreed to provide a quote to a local business to build them a new server. This is a dental office with 5 or 6 stations that currently run off a server with a PIII coppermine, 256 MB and a (2x36) 36 GB RAID 1 SCSI array. I want to bring him into the 21st century but not spend megabucks.

I am thinking P4 on an Intel server board, 512 MB, and a 4x120 (240 GB) SATA RAID 10 array. Do I need dual Xeons, more than a gig and SCSI?
His basic complaint is he needs more speed and more drive space.

Thanks for any input.

1gig minimum, Single Xeon or an opteron, raid 3 4x200 sata + 120 sata boot. Or just go easy on it and Build a P4 Preshot dualcore, on a asus p5ad2-e premium, with 1-2 gig of ram and 4x200 sata raid 10..
I would prefer xeon or opteron as a server, with scsi, but for spaceissue Sata..
//Christian

Thanks shadow. OK Xeon it is, one gig, and SATA150
Good idea on the boot drive but I think 40-80 gig is enough.

My main worry was the SCSI or SATA

OK here is what I have from Newegg.

AMD OPTERON 244 $240 (just one)
Tyan S2875ANRF mobo $240
OCZ 2x512 PC3200 ECC registered $250
4x200 Seagate SATA HDD $450
1x80 Seagate IDE HDD $65
Radeon 9250 AGP $40
NEC DVD burner $60
Tax and shipping $150

Looking at the Antec Titan 550 server case
Will use Win NT 2000 (already has it)
Use existing tape backup drive

I know nothing about opterons or xeons. Will this CPU do the job? Do I need two?
I know nothing about Tyan but they seem to be all about server boards. Will it be able to take advantage of NCQ drives. Do I really need ECC memory?

Any input appreciated.

Did you buy that, because the 144 Opteron would be a lot cheaper unless you are planning on putting another in.

I'm not sure about now, but the Opterons always used to need registered ECC ram.

Do you even need to go this way ? What do you do on this computer? I see no need so spend out this much.

Why not just go a San Diejo /w 1GIG and those 4x200GB HDD's?

I have not purchased anything yet.
This is for a dentist's office. He keeps patent records, X-rays, oral camera photos, etc. on a server in his office.
He has 5 workstations and a wired ethernet network and is looking to upgrade storage space, and disk access speed.

If I can use a regular PC instead of a server, I would rather do that. The big question is will a SATA 7200 rpm RAID 10 array be faster than the 10,000 rpm SCSI RAID 1 array he has now or do I have to go to a 15,000 rpm SCSI RAID 10 and spend really big bucks.

i just did a $2k server

dual opertaon 246's
Asus K8n Deluxe - supports SERIAL ATA II and has a ton of other goodies.
250g hitachi SATAII drive
74g raptor
1g (4 x 256) OCZ pc3200 registerd ram
Antex 550w PSU (with the special 24 pin)
x300 PCI vid card

i think this will fly.

SCSI will be faster then 7,200 RPm - the ONLY thing competing with SCSI is WD raptors 10k and the new SATAII drives that are out now.

To be fair, if this machine's job is to sit and serve files, then you don't need such insane expensive processors. If the computer is running some kind of database then that's a different story, and you'll want a fast processor on it - probably a single Xeon, or a high-spec A64. If the server is just dealing with static files, then a P4 or a lower A64 will do. I believe, however that the main bottleneck is in the drives, controllers, and the wired network itself.

It might be a good idea to see (somehow) if you can monitor his current set up to see what is holding it back - if he's only using a 100mbit lan, that will definitely be the main problem, and upgrading all the network to gigabit (new switch, and NIC's all round) will be an easily justifiable expense - it might even be that an upgrade to gigabit might make all the difference, meaning that a server upgrade wouldn't be necessary.


I'm afraid I'm not up to date on storage and drives, and I certainly have no idea about RAID levels, but if he requires serious power, then perhaps a hardware-based SCSI RAID card would be a good bet, and then you could use RAID 5 or perhaps RAID 0+1 (Again, check these RAID levels up)

Finally, choice of OS is smart - Windows 2000 server or Windows 2003 are good choices, if windows is required. If not, then perhaps consider Linux, since it seems to do very well in servers - what's the current server running?

^^ good point - i have a 997g ftp running on a p4 1.4 CPU and 512 of ram.

Thanks for the advice.
He is running Windows NT 2000 now and I will transfer that to the new box.
The server is an internet portal and uses a PIII coppermine now so whatever he is running does not require a fast processor.
I was planning on upgrading the nics anyway. Maybe I will do that first and see if it makes him happy.
One solution was to just add two SCSI drives and go to RAID 10 or 0+1 so that is still an option.

I appreciate the feedback, talking this out has helped, Thanks

Post back and let us know how it goes. I would guess the NICs would be the bottleneck:

10mbit lan = 1.25 megabytes per second (theoretical maximum)
100mbit lan = 12.5 megabytes per sec (yeh again, theoretical max)
1000mbit (gigabit) lan = 125 megabytes per second (theoretical, but hey, who cares! it's fast!)

If he's on 100mbit, then saving a 90 megabyte scan of an X-ray will take about 7-8 seconds (simply transferring over the network) which is long enough to get tedious and feel slow. Gigabit could transfer that in a second or so

Blueacid said:

Post back and let us know how it goes. I would guess the NICs would be the bottleneck:

Click to expand...

Will do. I should have the new nics and switch installed by end of the week.
Using Jaht 8 hub switch and nics.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833327102
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833327103

Have not ordered yet.

never heard of jaht company before - have you seen any reviews on their stuff ?

Personally i would rather go with some Intel or Dlink / 3com NICS

Mr.Guvernment said:

never heard of jaht company before - have you seen any reviews on their stuff ?

Personally i would rather go with some Intel or Dlink / 3com NICS

Click to expand...

Quoted For Truth


(urgh... Gen[m]ay has affected my posting)

Lol, seriously though, this man speaks the truth

D-Link is certainly a better choice. I usually buy quality but thought to save money on the nics at $12.50 vs $21 each. Jaht are supposed to have realtek chips but I cannot find a review.
I have to wait for the client to give me the go ahead but you convinced me to go with D-Link stuff.

Are you just going to go for the network right now, and leave the p3 as it is?

Fabulous... You could always upgrade with a IC7-g and a 2.8 (if you can find one) and a pair of good nics... increase memory to 1-2g and it doesn't set the system in to much strain.
My P3 couldn't handle GBitlan in full. 100% utilization as soon as i got over 100MBit.
It could have been the nics i had also.

//Christian

Blueacid said:

Are you just going to go for the network right now, and leave the p3 as it is?

Click to expand...

Yes. I plan to upgrade the network to 1000 Mbps and see if he is happy with the speed. I also need to add some RAM and reinstall the OS. He has never defragmented the drives (5+years). If that solves the file transfer speed issue then all he needs is extra disk space. If not, I can still replace the server and the network upgrade will already be in place.

His current configuration has a SCSI RAID 1 array with a 2GB OS partition and 34 GB file storage partition. What would you say to moving the OS to a small IDE drive to recover that space for files and adding one or two 36 GB SCSI drives to boost the transfer rate with RAID 5 or 0+1. Or is that just throwing good money at a bad server?

He did say he was happy with the server/network until recently, it seemed to slow down. It could be the OS has degraded, lack of defraging, or the fact that the the new home machine I built him and the workstations are all p4's with 512 MB and are way faster than the PIII on his work desk. I may end up doing a server anyway, but doing it in parts has some advantages.

You should really consider sataII and its features. Whats wrong with using a socket 939 amd 64. And are you sure its not the clients connected to the server, thats slow and not the server its self. Did you ever consider a few raptors in raid10. I am guessing it may just be a 10mbit network he uses, not even 100mbits. I have alot of dentist office, with new computers, but still connect on a 10mbit connection. I am also guessing that since its scsi drives are 5+ years old, a 7200rpm drives may be able to beat them. The current server may be fine, just check the network.
Thanks